Is it wrong to touch?

[Joykins]

Why do you make this artificial distinction? Fornication and autoeroticism are both consensual and do not "hurt" anyone. How can you say one is a form of theft and the other A-OK?

Who said that simply because something is consensual that it does not "hurt" anyone? Anything (like sex) that involves 2 people and a licit outlet (marriage) and the potential to create other people is going to be way more complicated than 3 minutes with your favorite hand.

 

[Bunnaroo]

i have some burning questions regarding some of His followers who really don't like me.

thanks in advance

It seems that one of the followers of Christ that doesn't like you is you. Every post I 've seen from you has been sarcastic and full of anger. Such vitrol could only come from a sense of self-loathing.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I really want to know this.

Why are you on Christian Forums?

It seems to only bring you frustration.

 

[invisible trousers]

It seems that one of the followers of Christ that doesn't like you is you. Every post I 've seen from you has been sarcastic and full of anger. Such vitrol could only come from a sense of self-loathing.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I really want to know this.

Why are you on Christian Forums?

It seems to only bring you frustration.

that's nice.

Why do you make this artificial distinction? Fornication and autoeroticism are both consensual and do not "hurt" anyone. How can you say one is a form of theft and the other A-OK?

when has the definition of fornication ever included masturbation?

 

[wblastyn]

God indeed makes the distinction between the pathetic excuses humans make to try to justify their actions and genuine failings by humans. I'm not sure people will like the category God will put them in when we face Him.

God forbid we get put into the homosexual category, or worse THE BLACK PERSON CATEGORY!! Oh my!!

*This is sarcasm*

 

[sally.b]

I have always understood it as sexual thoughts or feelings that we intentionally INDULGE. We may not be able to help it if a hot woman/man pops into our head. We can absolutely choose to stop dwelling on it.

OK then ..... That certainly makes it a bit clearer to me, I guess the same would apply to overeating.

..........................

JOYKINS,
As far as eating junk food etc, I'm not really relating that type of eating to this anology but more Im talking about the fact that you need to eat, just as some say you need to release sexual build up or tension.

......So for example, I need a sandwich for lunch (I always choose healthy eating anyway) but it was so nice I end up eating two or three sandwiches (all healthy fillings etc)

So I ask, how or where in this do we define lust exactly.

Can anyone see the lines Im going along ?

As far as fornication goes ...well thats not even part of the picture here as it is clear in scripture that it is a no no, so I dont think it equates to the analogy here anyhow.

 

[Joykins]

I don't think the release of sexual tension is a physical need in the same way eating is--obviously people don't actually die of sexual frustration but they do indeed die of hunger.

 

[indra_fanatic]

when has the definition of fornication ever included masturbation?

No, you tried to make the argument that fornication is an act that harms someone, which it is not (in a relativist worldview). No one is being forced to do anything against their will, just like in masturbation. Hence, the shoplifting analogy does not hold water.

Either all licentious behavior is okay or none of it is. I don't buy artificial distinctions on this matter any more than I do on race and relationships or in the definition of marriage.

 

[John Spong is wrong]

An earlier post quoted James Dobson:

"2. Some (Dr. James Dobson among them) argue that the practice per se is benign - neither good or bad, moral or not. I agree with that."

I believe that is the most honest, accurate and Biblical answer possible.

 

[invisible trousers]

No, you tried to make the argument that fornication is an act that harms someone, which it is not (in a relativist worldview). No one is being forced to do anything against their will, just like in masturbation. Hence, the shoplifting analogy does not hold water.

Either all licentious behavior is okay or none of it is. I don't buy artificial distinctions on this matter any more than I do on race and relationships or in the definition of marriage.

i think you quoted the wrong person

 

[indra_fanatic]

i think you quoted the wrong person

What are you talking about?

 

[invisible trousers]

in post #47 you're responding to things i never said

 

[indra_fanatic]

in post #47 you're responding to things i never said

No, you said that fornication and masturbation are not the same thing, and I disputed that.

 

[Zaac]

I personally do not think masturbation is a sin.

I know that this is a discussion forum. But I forever am cautious when people on a Christian website start telling me what they think instead of what God says just because the reality of our lives goes against what HE says.

It is not healthy to tell someone they are bad for taking care of their natural urges.

There still have to be boundaries, and in this instance, it appears to be an issue of can you touch without lusting?

Why should we feel that touching our own body is a dirty act?

Can you touch your body without lusting?

Masturbation can also teach you what you like in terms of sex so you can tell your partner when become married.

From a Biblical perspective, why would it be an issue that you know what you like in terms of sex before you're supposed to be having sex? This is the kind of stuff that drives lust.

By this approach, why not just let everybody watch inappropriate content or take one person for a test drive to see what they like or dislike?

It's NORMAL to think about sex and have a sex drive .

Christians are to think on the things of Christ. Now this is just me, but sometimes , I wish this whole idea of sex would just go away. We're too consumed by it. Kids start chasing after it when they are young and it seems to keep a hold on people until they die. Almost makes me want to be a monk.

That does not mean you are a sinner.When we make ourselves feel that fantasying , masturbation and even thinking about sex is a sin then its hard to get past the thought that sex is a 'bad and dirty' act when we become sexual.

Sex is to be thought about within a Biblical context of husband and wife.

 

[sally.b]

I don't think the release of sexual tension is a physical need in the same way eating is--obviously people don't actually die of sexual frustration but they do indeed die of hunger.

Oops, I am not explaining myself adequately am I

Of course I realize this, but Im trying to relate it to lust... not death lol,
just not sure how to make it more clear

 

[sally.b]

Well Said ...very Good Points Zaac !!!!

 

[Joykins]

I know that this is a discussion forum. But I forever am cautious when people on a Christian website start telling me what they think instead of what God says just because the reality of our lives goes against what HE says.

When it comes to this topic we are all left to our opinions because the Bible is silent on this matter.

 

[praying]

Christians are to think on the things of Christ. Now this is just me, but sometimes , I wish this whole idea of sex would just go away. We're too consumed by it. Kids start chasing after it when they are young and it seems to keep a hold on people until they die. Almost makes me want to be a monk.

that would be because we are sexual beings. The idea that we should completely deny our sexuality until the lights are off 3 times a week with our husband or wife is well slightly absurd. No I am not implying we should be running around willy nilly having sex and masturbating constantly but we are sexual beings, we will have sexual thoughts and the more we deny it the harder I believe it is to not have them. It's like a vicious circle, I like sex, ohh I can't think about that, but I like it , no I am lusting , but sex is good but I can't think about. Pfft.

I am with Joykins, the Bible is silent on masturbation and it is stretch to say that everyone who masturbates is lusting. What are they lusting for?

 

[sally.b]

What are they lusting for?

Ummm...arent they lusting for an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ?

Still wish someone would define "lust" a bit more. ;>)

 

[intricatic]

Well, the nature of masturbation is not an asexual thing. You lust after some image in your mind. Sexual gratification requires an object to seek gratification from. It's only a sin if you allow it to be, though. Most people are very aware of morality in a real sense, outside of what our cultures teach us as right and wrong so I would say it's up to the individual to determine whether it is sinful or not. Like all things.

 

[praying]

Ummm...arent they lusting for an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ?

Still wish someone would define "lust" a bit more. ;>)

Well they want to have [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] but does that mean it must be lust? People want to have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] when they are having sex with their spouse, is that lust? If desiring something automatically makes it lust then whoa....


Lust
sinful longing; the inward sin which leads to the falling away from God (Rom. 1:21). "Lust, the origin of sin, has its place in the heart, not of necessity, but because it is the centre of all moral forces and impulses and of spiritual activity." In Mark 4:19 "lusts" are objects of desire.

lust

n
Pleasure.

Inclination; desire.

Longing desire; eagerness to possess or enjoy; -- in a had sense; as, the lust of gain.

Licentious craving; sexual appetite.

Hence: Virility; vigor; active power.

lust

v
To list; to like.

To have an eager, passionate, and especially an inordinate or sinful desire, as for the gratification of the sexual appetite or of covetousness; -- often with after.

Source:
lust

n
a strong sexual desire

self-indulgent sexual desire (personified as one of the deadly sins)

v
have a craving, appetite, or great desire for



Main Entry: 1lust
Pronunciation: 'l&st
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German lust pleasure and perhaps to Latin lascivus wanton
1 obsolete a : PLEASURE, DELIGHT b : personal inclination : WISH
2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : LASCIVIOUSNESS
3 a : an intense longing : CRAVING b : ENTHUSIASM, EAGERNESS