Is it wrong to touch?

[CaliforniaJosiah]

the only problem with masterbatation, is...that it's a form of lust. and the bible says, that if one looks on lustfuly, committs adultry in his heart. it's a hard discipline.

MY view...


1. The link with "lust" is, of course, an assumption... IF it causes or increases "lust" in an individual, then it's probably not a good thing. But in such a case, it's the "lust" that is the sin, not the masturbation.


2. "Lust" is a word I've found Christians toss around pretty loosely - hardly ever defining it. In truth, there are at least 8 different Hebrew and Greek words in the Bible, all translated into English with this singular word "lust." I think we should be careful to not ASSUME that what we think is "lust" is exactly what the Bible means by it. A point that's important to ME: The command to avoid "lust" is directed at married couples no less than single people - married people are not to "lust" either. Read Song of Songs (Song of Solomon). Such thoughts clearly are not "lust." And the argument that the thoughts are okay if directed toward our spouse don't hold because there's no "married couple exclusion clause" in any discussion of lust.


3. While I think it's important to be HONEST here with ourselves, it should at least be noted that some practice this as a way to DECREASE "lust" in their lives - this is especially true for guys. A "build up" of sperm often causes a directly proportional increase in sexual drive and thoughts (SOME think that's "lust" - I'm not so sure). While I think there is virtue in simply learning to "deal" with all this, such perhaps is easier said than done for that 14 year old boy who suddenly finds himself very overwhelmed.


4. I think there's a lot of dishonesty here with ourselves, a lot of "justification." I don't deny that at all. But I also think we need to be careful ASSUMING the heart of another, especially in areas where there is no law, where the Bible is completely silent. You know what they say about the word, "assume."


MY view...


Keep the faith! Share the love!


- Josiah



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[Joykins]

Sexual arousal != lust.

Lust is just about when the stalking or adultery begins to be a plan.

 

[indra_fanatic]

This assumes that masturbation is always accompanied by lusting, which need not be the case.

Joy, we can argue around this for days. What you AREN'T going to be able to argue out of is that you are defending an intense form of sexual intimacy that is outside of marriage. If a person is constantly tempted by masturbation, one of three things is the case:

(1) Their mind is being polluted by toxic sexual influences from the media and pop culture.
(2) Their bodies are telling them on no uncertain biological terms that it's time to marry.
(3) They are not being satisfied in their marriage.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

If a person is constantly tempted by masturbation, one of three things is the case:

(1) Their mind is being polluted by toxic sexual influences from the media and pop culture.
(2) Their bodies are telling them on no uncertain biological terms that it's time to marry.
(3) They are not being satisfied in their marriage.

Whoa...

So, a 13 year old boy that masturbates largely to avoid noctural emissions or is simply tempted to such is, BY DEFINITION, polluted by toxic sexual influences from the media and pop culture, should immediately get married or is not being satisfied by his marriage? I'm not sure we should automatically conclude such MUST be the case... It seems a tad sweeping to ME.

.

 

[praying]

you are defending an intense form of sexual intimacy that is outside of marriage.

Doesn't intimacy by definiton require two people?

 

[invisible trousers]

Let's see: What is the difference between masturbating and having sex with a goat or a camel? Both involve not only having sex with an entity besides one's spouse, but with an entity that bears no resemblance to a normal, heterosexual partner whatsoever.

wait, so touching your genitals is on the same moral level as having sex with animals? are you kidding me?

if masturbation is so bad, how come we've never actually seen any negative effects from it?

I have a hard time drawing a distinction between an unrepentant masturbator and an unrepentant practicing homosexual or adulterer.

that's nice; lucky for us God makes the distinctions.

 

[billwald]

I discovered touching yourself by happenstance before I knew what sexual intercourse was. If it itches, scratch it.

 

[Aras]

No, I do not believe it is a Sin. I have posted in other threads on the topic though and wonder why we need another one?

 

[revrobor]

Then of course there's 2000 years of constant Christian Tradition that says it's a sin.

God gave us genitals for a purpose and it wasn't to touch.

You have no Scriptural support for this.

As far as Onan is concerned he spilled his seed because he withdrew NOT because he masturbated. You need to stop twisting Scripture to suit your own opinions.

 

[indra_fanatic]

should immediately get married or is not being satisfied by his marriage?

13 has been near the average marriage age of males throughout human history...

 

[indra_fanatic]

wait, so touching your genitals is on the same moral level as having sex with animals? are you kidding me?

that's nice; lucky for us God makes the distinctions.

God indeed makes the distinction between the pathetic excuses humans make to try to justify their actions and genuine failings by humans. I'm not sure people will like the category God will put them in when we face Him.

 

[invisible trousers]

interesting. by chance could you give me God's cell phone number? i know He's spent a ton of time talking to you and telling you how He thinks of everyone, but i have some burning questions regarding some of His followers who really don't like me.

thanks in advance

 

[HeyJupiter]

i dont get why masturbation has to be about lust...orm aybe im just dumb

 

[sally.b]

I think i get the link between "M" and lust,

HOWEVER .....can someone define lust for me !!!!! ?????

Surely we can put lust with the same category as our desire for food ?

Our body needs food and we need to eat.

We like the taste and smell. We enjoy and desire food to eat ,

So how do we know when we cross the line and get into lust over food ?

Im just giving a comparision here I dont know for sure what is the answer to the masturbation debate, but if it comes down to lust then I have to equate the food issue as a comparison.

Can anyone see what Im saying ?

 

[Joykins]

All right, let's try the food/sex analogy when it comes to lust

hunger = sexual arousal
sex = eating
married sex = eating healthy foods in reasonable proportions. And occasionally a little whipped cream
lust = eating disorder - I don't mean to cast aspersions on those with eating disorders with this analogy, but I refer to a situation in which the "normal" appetite has gone out of control and starts to have negative consequences. Adultery, like actual binge/purging or anorexic behaviors, is a symptom of the underlying problem.

To bring this analogy around to the OP, masturbation would be like eating a quick, sugary, snack on the go--not necessarily wrong in and of itself, but if it becomes your only or primary form of eating, or was a symptom of an eating disorder, it would be unhealthy.

Of course the analogy breaks down eventually, because we need food to live but don't need sex for life in the same way...

 

[indra_fanatic]

interesting. by chance could you give me God's cell phone number? i know He's spent a ton of time talking to you and telling you how He thinks of everyone, but i have some burning questions regarding some of His followers who really don't like me.

thanks in advance

Sorry. I was pretty tired last night and didn't see how mean my post actually was. I edited it... go see. Again, my apologies.

 

[indra_fanatic]

HOWEVER .....can someone define lust for me !!!!! ??????

I have always understood it as sexual thoughts or feelings that we intentionally INDULGE. We may not be able to help it if a hot woman/man pops into our head. We can absolutely choose to stop dwelling on it.

 

[indra_fanatic]

To bring this analogy around to the OP, masturbation would be like eating a quick, sugary, snack on the go--not necessarily wrong in and of itself, but if it becomes your only or primary form of eating, or was a symptom of an eating disorder, it would be unhealthy.

You could stretch this analogy to make it be about fornication, too. A little premarital sex would nothing worse than a little sexual "snack" before the main feast of marriage according to this view. See why I would object?

 

[Joykins]

You could stretch this analogy to make it be about fornication, too. A little premarital sex would nothing worse than a little sexual "snack" before the main feast of marriage according to this view. See why I would object?

No, no, no. Snacking is not forbidden.

Fornication is like...taking 5 donuts off the rack in the grocery store, and eating one before you get to the register. You may eventually pay for the donut and make it all right. Or you may not.

 

[indra_fanatic]

No, no, no. Snacking is not forbidden.

Fornication is like...taking 5 donuts off the rack in the grocery store, and eating one before you get to the register. You may eventually pay for the donut and make it all right. Or you may not.

Why do you make this artificial distinction? Fornication and autoeroticism are both consensual and do not "hurt" anyone. How can you say one is a form of theft and the other A-OK?