Is it possible for a sinner who has a "666" tattoo to get saved?

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,019.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Strong in Him:

So you think it can be a good witness means for some Christians, then?

Blessings.

I guess so; if they have a faith based one. But if someone sees a person with a tattoo they may feel they wouldn't be a Christian/they couldn't trust them and it could put them off if they were a non believer looking for prayer/help. Yes, it's wrong, but that could happen too. A person could be helped, or repelled, by seeing someone with a tattoo, even a faith based one. I wouldn't have a tattoo however much good I think it might do.

Anything can be a good witness means for Christians - t shirts with Bible verses on, badges, ties, socks, fish symbols etc.
I was reading a book on my Kindle Fire in Costa Coffee once and someone asked me if I was praying. I said; "not at the moment, no, but I am reading a Christian book". So we talked a bit about that. Then he said; "it's just that you have such a great smile, I thought you must be praying or at least meditating." So all I did was smile! For others, the way they live their lives proves to be the best witness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frogster
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,458
26,889
Pacific Northwest
✟732,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I guess so; if they have a faith based one. But if someone sees a person with a tattoo they may feel they wouldn't be a Christian/they couldn't trust them and it could put them off if they were a non believer looking for prayer/help. Yes, it's wrong, but that could happen too. A person could be helped, or repelled, by seeing someone with a tattoo, even a faith based one. I wouldn't have a tattoo however much good I think it might do.

Anything can be a good witness means for Christians - t shirts with Bible verses on, badges, ties, socks, fish symbols etc.
I was reading a book on my Kindle Fire in Costa Coffee once and someone asked me if I was praying. I said; "not at the moment, no, but I am reading a Christian book". So we talked a bit about that. Then he said; "it's just that you have such a great smile, I thought you must be praying or at least meditating." So all I did was smile! For others, the way they live their lives proves to be the best witness.

I also think that such things can turn a lot of people off. I'm general feeling of "Jesus junk" is that it's almost always tacky and unhelpful. Back when I still regularly listened to "Christian rock" in high school there was a band called Atomic Opera, none of my Christian friends at the time knew them so I don't know how well known they were, but they had a song called "Jesus Junk" that has still stuck with me.

One of the lines in the song is a fairly heavy hitting "They will know us by our love ... of junk."

I'm not condemning clothing or bumper stickers with Christian things on them, just that I think maybe moderation is kind of key.

It's not that a pretty good conversation couldn't come out of wearing a t-shirt with Lifesavers candy that says "Jesus is the real Life Saver" (I don't know if that shirt exists, but it could), I'm just wondering how seriously most people would take someone with such a shirt.

I currently write this with an image of St. George hanging on the wall, and if I knew where it was I'd also have an icon of Madonna and Child on the wall. So I certainly don't take issue with Christian "things".

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,901
17,177
Canada
✟279,058.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I guess so; if they have a faith based one. But if someone sees a person with a tattoo they may feel they wouldn't be a Christian/they couldn't trust them and it could put them off if they were a non believer looking for prayer/help. Yes, it's wrong, but that could happen too. A person could be helped, or repelled, by seeing someone with a tattoo, even a faith based one. I wouldn't have a tattoo however much good I think it might do.

Anything can be a good witness means for Christians - t shirts with Bible verses on, badges, ties, socks, fish symbols etc.
I was reading a book on my Kindle Fire in Costa Coffee once and someone asked me if I was praying. I said; "not at the moment, no, but I am reading a Christian book". So we talked a bit about that. Then he said; "it's just that you have such a great smile, I thought you must be praying or at least meditating." So all I did was smile! For others, the way they live their lives proves to be the best witness.
Strong in Him:

Some just posted on another thread here a picture of a Christians fish tattoo <>< that he has had for 40 years...

Blessings.
 
Upvote 0

Wgw

Pray For Brussels!
May 24, 2015
4,304
2,074
✟15,107.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Conservative
Greetings. I'm a member of the Syriac Orthodox Church (that's the one getting killed off by ISIL in Syria and Iraq; fortunately Imlive in the US), and I can say that we would certainly say someone with such a tattoo could be saved, as we believe baptism washes away all sins. Of course if a member of the church sinned by obtaining such a tattoo they would need to confess that sin and receive absolution.

I would recommend as a practical matter that anyone with such a tattoo pay to have it either removed or obscured. Better an unintelligible dark spot on your skin that looks like a bruise that won't heal, than a Satanic symbol, I would say. However, specific guidance should be sought from a priest.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,019.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Greetings.

Greetings, and welcome to the mad house - er, Christian forums. :rolleyes: :)

I'm a member of the Syriac Orthodox Church (that's the one getting killed off by ISIL in Syria and Iraq; fortunately Imlive in the US),

I'm very glad to hear you're safe. :cool:

Of course if a member of the church sinned by obtaining such a tattoo they would need to confess that sin and receive absolution.

Apart from the 666 bit, which is only a number, but might upset some; why do you say that having a tattoo is a sin?
I know Paul said we are to honour the Lord with our bodies, but if a Christian loves the Lord, feels that it is ok to have a, tasteful, tattoo and is not dishonouring to him; why not? It is surely between the Christian and God. Ditto long hair, on a man, pierced ears/noses - not to mention drinking, smoking etc?
 
Upvote 0

Wgw

Pray For Brussels!
May 24, 2015
4,304
2,074
✟15,107.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Conservative
Orthodox clergy customarily wear long hair in imitation of our Lord; the word Paul used in the Greek NT we interpret as meaning "decorated", i.e. dreadlocks. But our belief is that our bodies are each individually made in the image of God, that is to say, are icons of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the incarnate Word, and it is wrong to defile this divine image by tattooing it, piercing it, mutilating it, et cetera. In fact, canon I of the Council of Nicea, to which most Christians including most aprotestants agree with in terms of the creed it produced, prohibits someone who has castrated themself or had themself castrated from being ordained to any office in Holy Orders, not just the priesthood and diaconate, but also the ranks of reader, exorcist, and doorkeeper were denied to such persons, as they were regarded as self-murderers.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ok, theoretical question here: Let's say we have a criminal who receives a 666 tattoo on his forehead or right hand when he's in prison. However, later on in life they regret it and have it removed. Is it possible for that person to get saved or no?
The number 666 has nothing to do with Salvation or lack of or loss of, salvation.
It is just a number used from a great error of those who had no understanding.
Walid Shoebat, a convert to Jesus Christ out of the Islamic doctrines and who was born in Bethelem, read what John wrote, and it is the Bism Allah, with the two crossed swords.
Also, they who are the "multitudes of that name", the allah, wear the badge of jihad on their foreheads or arm, declaring that there is no god but allah and muhammed is his prophet.
They blaspheme the Father and the Son, and they serve the Beast and worship Muhammed like he is god himself, and worship the mother of harlots in an image at Mecca, which they kiss and fondle and go on pilgrimages to.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Orthodox clergy customarily wear long hair in imitation of our Lord; the word Paul used in the Greek NT we interpret as meaning "decorated", i.e. dreadlocks. But our belief is that our bodies are each individually made in the image of God, that is to say, are icons of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the incarnate Word, and it is wrong to defile this divine image by tattooing it, piercing it, mutilating it, et cetera. In fact, canon I of the Council of Nicea, to which most Christians including most aprotestants agree with in terms of the creed it produced, prohibits someone who has castrated themself or had themself castrated from being ordained to any office in Holy Orders, not just the priesthood and diaconate, but also the ranks of reader, exorcist, and doorkeeper were denied to such persons, as they were regarded as self-murderers.
But what about that esteemed early church "father" who made himself a eunuch?
 
Upvote 0

Wgw

Pray For Brussels!
May 24, 2015
4,304
2,074
✟15,107.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Conservative
But what about that esteemed early church "father" who made himself a eunuch?

Origen was esteemed in the fourth century by the Cappadocian Fathers, who compiled an anthology of his best works, the Philocalia, not to be confused with the far more important Philokalia compiled in the 18th century by Ss. Nicodemus and Macarius on Mount Athos (which is a vast anthology that starts in the fourth century and continues unril the time it was compiled, and is perhaps the most influential collection of writings on Orthodox theology, after the Bible, the second most important book in an Orthodox library). Philocalia means "love of beauty" and was a common title for anthologies. His influence was considerable.

However, later in the fourth century, as copies of the Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius of Caesarea, which contained an account of Origen's self castration, began to circulate throughout the Empire, his popularity waned rather substantially. Not just on account of that, but rather, because an increasing number of prominent bishops concluded that the Arian heresy was an extrapolation of his writings. Most notably St. Epiphanius of Salamis, author of the Panarion, who classified Origenism as a hersesy, and St. Jerome, who had rather a bitter row with Lucifer of Cagliari (known in Sardinia as St. Lucifer; he is venerated as a saint; at the time the name meant light bearer and was not firmly associated with Satan, and if memory serves there were also a few Martyrs of the great third century persecutions called Lucifer, but Lucifer of Cagliari, a supporter of Origen, is not venerated as a saint anywhere except Sardinia).

By the sixth century, Origen was blamed not only for Arianism, but also for Nestorianism, Eutychianism, Apollinarianism, and several other heresies. As such Emperor Justinian anathematized him in what was considered historically the first act of the Fifth Ecumenical Council. Many of his books, in fact most, were burned, but he, being a theological Isaac Asimov, wrote so much that we still have a large number of his works, the crown jewells of which are in the Philocalia of the Cappadocians (Ss. Basil, Gregory the Theologian and Gregory of Nyassa). In the 20th century, there has been an a move to rehabilitate Origen. The 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia attempted to argue his anathematizTion was invalid as the Emperor had no ecclesial right to pronounce an anathema (true, but both the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox accepted it, making it official), that the fifth Ecumenical council wasn't a proper ecumenical council per se (which was wrong; the Sixth and Seventh Councils explicitly cited it as such) and that Origen was forced by the Romans to castrate himself under duress (possibly true).

But either way, Origen is not a saint, he is widely regarded as anathematized heresiarch, and his actions violated the third century Apostolic Canons as well as the canons of Nicea; canon I may have been issued as a reiteration of the Aposrolic canon so as to discourage people from following his example (Eusebius of Caesarea, an admirer of Origen and our chief source for the story of his self castration, was a very prominent participant at Nicea, because he alone did not want to adopt the Nicene Creed as written but rather reach a theological compromise with Arius, fearful of the dreadful schism and persecution the church would endure as a result of insisting on Truth; the church did endure and survive the schism and persecution. So whereas it's possible the Cappadocians, who were not present at Nicea were unaware of Origen's self castration, it's also quite possible that it was at Nicea that this fact of the austere writers life first Beca,e widely known. Either way, Origen by the end of the fourth century had been discredited on theological grounds; his self inflicted lack of genitalia however doubtless fanned the flames of his anathematization.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,901
17,177
Canada
✟279,058.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I know Paul said we are to honour the Lord with our bodies, but if a Christian loves the Lord, feels that it is ok to have a, tasteful, tattoo and is not dishonouring to him; why not?

Strong in Him:

In the end, it's an individual matter, isn't it?

In any case, so many Christians do it.

Regarding piercings, in Ezekiel 16.12 the Lord Himself is recorded as giving Zion a nose ring.

Blessings.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,019.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Strong in Him:

In the end, it's an individual matter, isn't it?

You're right; it is.

In any case, so many Christians do it.

Yes, and that's between them and God.
I must admit that I would have been far more dogmatic about this 30 or 35 years ago and probably told people exactly why they shouldn't do x, y or z - or at least had a strong opinion about it. But some may do it for a good reason - to bear witness, as you said. Or maybe to fit in among those they are ministering to - which I think is what I said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: faroukfarouk
Upvote 0

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,901
17,177
Canada
✟279,058.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You're right; it is.



Yes, and that's between them and God.
I must admit that I would have been far more dogmatic about this 30 or 35 years ago and probably told people exactly why they shouldn't do x, y or z - or at least had a strong opinion about it. But some may do it for a good reason - to bear witness, as you said. Or maybe to fit in among those they are ministering to - which I think is what I said.
Strong in Him:

The fact is also, compared with 30 or 35 years ago - the timescale you mention - a lot more Christians are nowadays getting their first ink (often for witness purposes and/or as a personal reminder).

This is maybe partly because the whole nature of tattoo establishments and customs have developed greatly over the past 30 - 35 years.

Then it was mainly sailors and bikers that got them.

Now it's not unusual for professionals, 18 year old students and even preachers' wives to get some ink.

Then, a parlor often meant a dimly lit building in an industrial section open late at night.

Now many parlors are often more like salons; ink safety has improved enormously and in North America (I don't know about you guys over the Pond) a clear majority of parlor clients are female.

(Does this make sense?)

Blessings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Strong in Him
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,019.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Strong in Him:

The fact is also, compared with 30 or 35 years ago - the timescale you mention - a lot more Christians are nowadays getting their first ink (often for witness purposes and/or as a personal reminder).

This is maybe partly because the whole nature of tattoo establishments and customs have developed greatly over the past 30 - 35 years.

Then it was mainly sailors and bikers that got them.

Now it's not unusual for professionals, 18 year old students and even preachers' wives to get some ink.

Then, a parlor often meant a dimly lit building in an industrial section open late at night.

Now many parlors are often more like salons; ink safety has improved enormously and in North America (I don't know about you guys over the Pond) a clear majority of parlor clients are female.

(Does this make sense?)

Blessings.

Absolutely. :)

I wasn't referring to tattoos, or the nature of tattoos as such, though, but rather to my dogmatic teenage attitude that some things were definitely wrong and what's more, that I had the right to say so, or to judge Christians if they didn't behave as I believed they should behave.
 
Upvote 0

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,901
17,177
Canada
✟279,058.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Absolutely. :)

I wasn't referring to tattoos, or the nature of tattoos as such, though, but rather to my dogmatic teenage attitude that some things were definitely wrong and what's more, that I had the right to say so, or to judge Christians if they didn't behave as I believed they should behave.
Strong in Him:

Well, maybe so, but also maybe the context of your strong views the other way when you were that age, would also have been significant.

These days, though, so many teens, including Christians, expect to visit the parlor for their 18th b-day.

These days, it's a kind of expression of being an adult, I suppose you would say?

Blessings.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Origen was esteemed in the fourth century by the Cappadocian Fathers,...
He is still considered an early Church Father, though he was not sainted:)
As to his doctrines, I think he was like so many up to today, even, who have a little heresy but not damnable heresy, and who have writings both pro and con -unless they are translated with error- on the subjects the early Church grappled with, and came to conclusions on, by consensus among those in power.
But he was accepted and he did castrate himself, and he was, after that, made a bishop, a teacher, and so on and so forth, and his writings were saved in the early Church "Fathers", of which I owned, but sold, and use online libraries of, now.
....
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You're right; it is.



Yes, and that's between them and God.
I must admit that I would have been far more dogmatic about this 30 or 35 years ago and probably told people exactly why they shouldn't do x, y or z - or at least had a strong opinion about it. But some may do it for a good reason - to bear witness, as you said. Or maybe to fit in among those they are ministering to - which I think is what I said.
It is, after all, a matter of the heart before God, and the motives are judged by Him, as to good or evil.
Like Hudson Taylor going completely "Chinese" in dress and culture to reach the Chinese -and others like him.
One of my own nephews is now in another state and is in youth ministry and though I have no doubt about his love for the LORD, I was surprised recently to see a pic of him with a "mohawk"....but I held my tongue, after swallowing a gulp, though in my own youth that was unacceptable. I'm glad I held my tongue, because it is none of my business
 
  • Like
Reactions: Strong in Him
Upvote 0

Root of Jesse

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord
Site Supporter
Jun 23, 2011
18,910
3,646
Bay Area, California
Visit site
✟354,065.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Ok, theoretical question here: Let's say we have a criminal who receives a 666 tattoo on his forehead or right hand when he's in prison. However, later on in life they regret it and have it removed. Is it possible for that person to get saved or no?
Anyone can be saved any time before they die, if they repent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: topcare
Upvote 0

RhaegarTargaryen

Active Member
May 27, 2015
367
52
40
✟784.00
Faith
Lutheran
Ok, theoretical question here: Let's say we have a criminal who receives a 666 tattoo on his forehead or right hand when he's in prison. However, later on in life they regret it and have it removed. Is it possible for that person to get saved or no?

This question is a no-brainer, if you actually know a bit about what 666 is, and have some basic understanding of the Scriptures.
The short answer is: Yes, of course it is.
The longer answer is: Yes, of course it is. And they don't even have to have it removed, though it certainly would be a good idea, so as to not cause offense, and to avoid too many awkward conversations.
The long answer is: Yes, of course. Because 666 isn't some magical number that refers to the Antichrist who mainstream ignorant evangelicalism believes will be some kind of global dictator.
Put 666 through the relevant numerology and you arrive at "Neron Caesar" - Emperor Nero.

I don't even want to begin to think about how many people have been driven to despair and self-destruction because they believed the kind of nonsense that says: "Whoops, you got a stupid tattoo, now you're doomed to hell without chance of escape, even with Jesus". It just makes me angry beyond description, and such "preachers" are just as much enemies of Christ, as ISIS and Boko Haram are. In some sense, they're worse.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,901
17,177
Canada
✟279,058.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This question is a no-brainer, if you actually know a bit about what 666 is, and have some basic understanding of the Scriptures.
The short answer is: Yes, of course it is.
The longer answer is: Yes, of course it is. And they don't even have to have it removed, though it certainly would be a good idea, so as to not cause offense, and to avoid too many awkward conversations.
The long answer is: Yes, of course. Because 666 isn't some magical number that refers to the Antichrist who mainstream ignorant evangelicalism believes will be some kind of global dictator.
Put 666 through the relevant numerology and you arrive at "Neron Caesar" - Emperor Nero.

I don't even want to begin to think about how many people have been driven to despair and self-destruction because they believed the kind of nonsense that says: "Whoops, you got a stupid tattoo, now you're doomed to hell without chance of escape, even with Jesus". It just makes me angry beyond description, and such "preachers" are just as much enemies of Christ, as ISIS and Boko Haram are. In some sense, they're worse.
Some Christians in any case find faith based tattoo designs effective conversation starters in witness.
 
Upvote 0