Is it OK to talk about suicide on here?

[imind]

this is david foster wallace's description of the "choice" of suicide...he was an author who committed suicide in 2008. i no longer believe that, for many, suicide includes any choice at all...

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

this is david foster wallace's description of the "choice" of suicide...he was an author who committed suicide in 2008. i no longer believe that, for many, suicide includes any choice at all...

Thanks for the quote. This is what I hoped for. That we get fresh insights into why people opt for it. And not settle for stereotypical pat answers.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

the act of extinguishing oneself could be selfless instead of selfish.

I feel guilty now for suggesting that suicide is a selfish choice. How can I judge? How can I be so judgemental? Do I really understand the pain, the loneliness, the terror someone is going through?
There was a TV series recently on Aussie TV about "Manning Up". That men can be susceptible to suicide because they don't want to appear weak, and bottling up their emotions. I think it is better than it was say 50 years ago. Now it is more acceptable for men to appear a little emotional. The metro male for instance. Still the suicide rate is up. In regard to manning up, I think we do have to keep a lot of secrets to ourselves. Here's a reveal. God is my mate. I tell him everything. He wont judge me. He keeps me sane because he looks past my sins, past my bad behaviour. I'm not preaching. Just saying how I survive. You need a mate who accepts you unconditionally. Human mates are OK up to a point but the only one who fully accepts you is JC. I keep forgetting he is my boss though. The authority part I need to work on. Maybe I'm too familiar with the boss!

 

[s_gunter]

I feel guilty now for suggesting that suicide is a selfish choice. How can I judge? How can I be so judgemental? Do I really understand the pain, the loneliness, the terror someone is going through?
There was a TV series recently on Aussie TV about "Manning Up". That men can be susceptible to suicide because they don't want to appear weak, and bottling up their emotions. I think it is better than it was say 50 years ago. Now it is more acceptable for men to appear a little emotional. The metro male for instance. Still the suicide rate is up. In regard to manning up, I think we do have to keep a lot of secrets to ourselves. Here's a reveal. God is my mate. I tell him everything. He wont judge me. He keeps me sane because he looks past my sins, past my bad behaviour. I'm not preaching. Just saying how I survive. You need a mate who accepts you unconditionally. Human mates are OK up to a point but the only one who fully accepts you is JC. I keep forgetting he is my boss though. The authority part I need to work on. Maybe I'm too familiar with the boss!

Oh my stars, I didn't mean to make you feel guilty. Not in the slightest! That guilt is not your cross to bear. It's NOT your fault either that a person is/was suffering (unless you make/made the conscious choice to intentionally hurt your mentally ill loved one with words or deeds, but I know you wouldn't do that.).

Here's a reveal from me: I've been there, done that, and have the hospital wrist bands to prove it (ok, ok, I finally threw them away a few years ago, on the 10 year anniversary). I'm lucky to be alive. There's no way I should've been caught, but alas I was, and over a decade later, I'm glad I was saved. I know the "selfless act" justification and the reasons behind it all too well. Please forgive me, but that's why I speak as I do about this topic. I sincerely didn't mean to cause harm in the process though. I'm so sorry about that. :'(

 

[s_gunter]

God is my mate. I tell him everything. He wont judge me. He keeps me sane because he looks past my sins, past my bad behaviour. I'm not preaching. Just saying how I survive. You need a mate who accepts you unconditionally. Human mates are OK up to a point but the only one who fully accepts you is JC.

Here's the comment of mine that'll probably get deleted. I had to do the complete opposite. Back then, God seemed like my oppressor. I couldn't do anything right, so why should I keep trying? He expected way too much from me. Too many rules to follow. I already "knew" what a disaster I was, so there was no way I believed in His promises. God was the liar to me back then. I had to back away from my faith in order to heal. I needed time to figure out what were the lies my depression/anxiety were telling me, to find out what was the distortion vs the real truth (instead of what I was convinced was the truth). Thankfully, God is a forgiving and a patient God.

I am not alone in thoughts like that. There are many just like me, who can find no solace in God's forgiveness and other promises. Please be patient with them. They're trying to find their way. That said, there are those whose faith really does save them. I was always jealous of those types, but my brain just didn't work that way. Like I and others have said in this thread, mental illness can cause you not to think straight. It messes everything up.

 

[s_gunter]

this is david foster wallace's description of the "choice" of suicide...he was an author who committed suicide in 2008. i no longer believe that, for many, suicide includes any choice at all...

Have you read Infinite Jest? When I read that quote from that book, I literally slammed that tome to the floor, screaming at DFW, while in tears: "Yes! Yes! You understand!" It felt like I had found a friend, someone who shared my same understanding. Then, with the tears flowing, I corrected myself, since I remembered what he had done. "You understood! *Blasphemous curse words,* you understood!" The man had a gift for expressing these emotions with words.

It's a shame no one else did, even his doctors. The amount of pain that man was in... If you're a DFW fan, and are in the mood to spend a day or two in emotional chaos, read Every Love Story is a Ghost Story: A Life of David Foster Wallace by D. T. Max.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

s gunter for TLT mayor!

 

[imind]

Have you read Infinite Jest?

i'm actually reading it now...only a few pages in. i read that quote online. its actually what got me to pick up a wallace book as i had never read him before. many people have reacted that way when they read that quote. its like the first true explanation of what its like. i have never felt suicidal thoughts and have spent hours upon hours wondering how it could EVER be an option...now i know.

 

[imind]

Thanks for the quote. This is what I hoped for. That we get fresh insights into why people opt for it. And not settle for stereotypical pat answers.

sorry for posting twice but i didn't see your comment just now...you're welcome. too many people, far too frequently, and for a range of issues, settle for those answers.

 

[s_gunter]

i'm actually reading it now...only a few pages in. i read that quote online. its actually what got me to pick up a wallace book as i had never read him before. many people have reacted that way when they read that quote. its like the first true explanation of what its like. i have never felt suicidal thoughts and have spent hours upon hours wondering how it could EVER be an option...now i know.

You're in for a long haul. Read the foot/end notes too, even though they're a novel themselves. You won't regret the time spent, and you will spend a lot of time with it.

 

[Goatee]

Suicide.............Not a good idea to extinguish life given by God!

Suffer and hope for cancer...........thats me!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Suffer and hope for cancer...........thats me!

What??

 

[s_gunter]

I think @antletems is merely stating that his preferred "exit" is cancer instead of severe clinical depression. It seems like he's choosing to have his mind intact instead of his body, if one or the other had to be chosen.

Of course, I'm just guessing, but that's how I understood his comment.

 

[Goatee]

I think @antletems is merely stating that his preferred "exit" is cancer instead of severe clinical depression. It seems like he's choosing to have his mind intact instead of his body, if one or the other had to be chosen.

Of course, I'm just guessing, but that's how I understood his comment.

Well, to commit suicide is against everything God.

I would welcome cancer so that i could suffer to help those in pain for my love of God. Plus, as my life is pathetic, i would also welcome getting off this horrible earth!

 

[Tigger45]

Well, to commit suicide is against everything God.

I would welcome cancer so that i could suffer to help those in pain for my love of God. Plus, as my life is pathetic, i would also welcome getting off this horrible earth!

Wow sorry to hear that bro. Been where you're at but wanted a quick and easy way out like a massive heart attack or something.

 

[Goatee]

Wow sorry to hear that bro. Been where you're at but wanted a quick and easy way out like a massive heart attack or something.

I ask for that too! Daily!!

 

[s_gunter]

By my posting this, it is NOT me condoning or ecouraging suicide. I'm posting this for informative purposes only. (Click to expand, and note the bold, green text.)

Suicide (scroll to near the end of the page)

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Emphasis mine.

The Church DOES acknowledge that certain circumstances (that are not the fault of the person) can lead someone to lose control, not be completely responsible for his/her final grave sin (killing oneself), AND it acknowledges that it's God Himself who decides what's what regarding a person who killed his/herself. It's NOT automatic condemnation for those who commit suicide.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Is having a death wish the same as being suicidal?
I sometimes think the people who get into self-destructive habits like alcoholism, have an unconscious death wish. I think Freud has a lot to say about the "death wish" but I cant remember what.
It is worth exploring our own lifestyle to become more self-aware. Are we really living life to the full as Jesus asked us to do? Do we have a healthy optimistic view on life and the one after?

 

[s_gunter]

Is having a death wish the same as being suicidal?

A lot of psychologists/psychiatrists would say yes. It just depends on the intensity of the emotion of wanting death which would make the doctor commit you to the mental ward, being a danger to oneself.*

I sometimes think the people who get into self-destructive habits like alcoholism, have an unconscious death wish.

That one's iffy. Remember what alcohol does to you, when you drink too much. It makes your mind and body go numb, therefore, you feel better. A lot of times, alcoholism isn't a death wish. Sure, alcoholism can kill a person, but that's not necessarily what the alcoholic is thinking. His only intention is to feel better. It's self medication, not a death wish.

It is worth exploring our own lifestyle to become more self-aware. Are we really living life to the full as Jesus asked us to do? Do we have a healthy optimistic view on life and the one after?

And you've just described what psychological therapy is. Therapy is a lifestyle exploration and the psychologist/psychiatrist acts as the guide, so to speak. Through that exploration, a healthy, optimistic view of life is the goal sought. You learn ways to cope with the rotten, so that you can still see the good. You learn ways to stop the negative/harming behavior, and do something better instead.

*That's USA rules. Suicide in the USA is illegal. If a doctor feels that you are a danger to yourself or others due to a possible/already diagnosed mental illness, a doctor can commit you to the mental ward, an involutary hold, for observation/treatment for (at least) 3 days. I don't know how it would work in a place like Canada, where suicide is legal...

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

That one's iffy. Remember what alcohol does to you, when you drink too much. It makes your mind and body go numb, therefore, you feel better. A lot of times, alcoholism isn't a death wish. Sure, alcoholism can kill a person, but that's not necessarily what the alcoholic is thinking. His only intention is to feel better. It's self medication, not a death wish.

Of course its an "iffy" I agree. They are certainly happy to kill brain cells along the way, in order to achieve intoxication. Or in more serious cases, wear out their liver. Ruin relationships. Its like Satan gets a hold of them, and says "this way to paradise."