Is it all coming together at the End of the Shemitah year?

Laureate

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I did not mean to imply you worshipped many Divine beings, however I can not help but see the concept of 'many-poly Elohym existing' as being a threshold of (or for) polytheism!

The bible mentions One true Deity, and many false Deity, but if false then they are not real, and if not real, then non existent!
Existing only in one's imagination!
 
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Hoshiyya

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I did not mean to imply you worshipped many Divine beings, however I can not help but see the concept of 'many-poly Elohym existing' as being a threshold of (or for) polytheism!

The bible mentions One true Deity, and many false Deity, but if false then they are not real, and if not real, then non existent!
Existing only in one's imagination!

Did you know the word Elohim is actually used to describe the vision of Samuel appearing to Saul ?
("I see elohim rising from the ground", 1 Samuel 28:13.)

The point is not that there are multiple deities, in your sense of the term.

If you had read even one of my posts on this matter, from start to finish, you'd see what I am talking about. The WORD elohim doesn't mean what you think it means. You are effectively calling me a polytheist, or near-polytheist, for saying that angels exist. And since you also believe in angels, that makes you a polytheist too..
 
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Laureate

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Did you know the word Elohim is actually used to describe the vision of Samuel appearing to Saul ?
("I see elohim rising from the ground", 1 Samuel 28:13.)

The point is not that there are multiple deities, in your sense of the term.

If you had read even one of my posts on this matter, from start to finish, you'd see what I am talking about. The WORD elohim doesn't mean what you think it means. You are effectively calling me a polytheist, or near-polytheist, for saying that angels exist. And since you also believe in angels, that makes you a polytheist too..


I read very carefully, and feel you have explained your take on the matter, however I quote Elohym when I say He is One, I do not see Angels as entities with free independent will as you do, I see them as the Word suggest, Messengers of Elohym, not messengers of many, I see them as cells of one body, letters of One Word, The Word of Elohym!
 
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Hoshiyya

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I can show verses to substantiate the non conflicting definition that I have come to accept, can you do the same without conflicting with other verses?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I am just telling you the Biblical definition I am going by, since you keep making replies that misrepresent my position.

Elohim, Theos, God, Kami, Deva,
all have a wide range of meaning. Depending on context, they can refer to the Highest Deity, or to lesser spirits created by that deity.

See for example Psalm 82:

1 God (elohim) has taken his place in the divine council (adat el);
in the midst of the gods (elohim) he holds judgment:
2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 I said, “You are gods (elohim),
sons of the Most High (bney elyon), all of you;
7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”
8 Arise, O God (elohim), judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!

(Notice that Elohim the Creator refers to various angels as Elohim in this psalm. Elohim himself SAID they were Elohim, who are we to disagree?)

The Bible even shows the spirit of Samuel referred to as elohim (1 Samuel 28:13).
 
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Hoshiyya

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Is there anything that you said that I failed to address? I know I mentioned many scriptures, and have not seen you address One of them!

Are you even reading my posts ?

The Bible CLEARLY uses the word Elohim to refer to entities other than the Creator. That is the entirety of my point. Psalm 82 is a particularly good example, see above.
 
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Laureate

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I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I am just telling you the Biblical definition I am going by, since you keep making replies that misrepresent my position.

Cool, pretty much the same here, just sharing the biblical definition that I have received, as well, it is my logic however that differs from yours.

Elohim, Theos, God, Kami, Deva, all have a wide range of meaning. Depending on context, they can refer to the Highest Deity, or to lesser spirits created by that deity.

Thus far I agree, there are Many perspectives of the Supreme being, yet One Supreme being, yet because Ea'huah (Existence) is one, and there is Nothing beside Him, He evidently made these beings from His own, hence the term 'Sons'.

See for example Psalm 82:

1 God (elohim) has taken his place in the divine council (adat el);
in the midst of the gods (elohim) he holds judgment:
2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 I said, “You are gods (elohim),
sons of the Most High (bney elyon), all of you;
7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!

Sigh! This passage indicates to me that We Collectively constitute the many members of One Elohym, and individually we are Sons.

Yet it looks like you see us as being separate from His body, where I can only see one as being separated from Him in Truth.

For in Him we move, live, and have our being!


The Bible even shows the spirit of Samuel referred to as Elohim (1 Samuel 28:13).

That is because the Spirit of Samuel is Elohym!

Whose temple are we? Who is it that dwells in us? How do you translate the name Immanuel? For me it is, Elohym is (dwells) in, and amongst us!
 
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Hoshiyya

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This passage indicates to me that We Collectively constitute the many members of One Elohym, and individually we are Sons.

Yet it looks like you see us as being separate from His body, where I can only see one as being separated from Him in Truth.

For in Him we move, live, and have our being!

I guess this is the primary difference we have in our understandings. And I accept that we disagree, I just wanted to intellectually explain what I meant, regardless of whether you would agree or disagree. Scripture plainly and clearly uses the word "elohim" to refer to other entities than the Creator. This is, to me, a matter of just admitting it says what it says.
 
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Laureate

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When Elohym said, no longer are we to refer to Him as Baal, is He not indicating that he was inappropriately referred to as Baal?


Did not Paul acknowledge the Truth reported by the Greek prophets who worshipped the Unknown Deity? Saying, even as your poets have said, for in him (not another) we live, move, and have our being!
 
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Laureate

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I guess this is the primary difference we have in our understandings. And I accept that we disagree, I just wanted to intellectually explain what I meant, regardless of whether you would agree or disagree. Scripture plainly and clearly uses the word "elohim" to refer to other entities than the Creator. This is, to me, a matter of just admitting it says what it says.

I accept the verses you presented in contextual harmony with the verses which I presented, which you have yet to address.


In order for me to agree with your take of the matter I would have to ignore all those verses which heaven had me present to you.
 
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Hoshiyya

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When Elohym said, no longer are we to refer to Him as Baal, is He not indicating that he was inappropriately referred to as Baal?


Did not Paul acknowledge the Truth reported by the Greek prophets who worshipped the Unknown Deity? Saying, even as your poets have said, for in him (not another) we live, move, and have our being!

I agree to both points, but neither of them relate to the etymology, the definition or the practical usage of the Hebrew term elohim.
 
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Hoshiyya

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I accept the verses you presented in contextual harmony with the verses which I presented, which you have yet to address.


In order for me to agree with your take of the matter I would have to ignore all those verses which heaven had me present to you.

You don't have to agree with me.

I simply presented the scriptures. They plainly refer to angels as elohim.

I don't know what you want me to do with the scriptures you presented. I do not see how any of them problematize this linguistic issue, nor am I a missionary whose job is to convince people of various propositions.
 
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Laureate

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I agree to both points, but neither of them relate to the etymology, the definition or the practical usage of the Hebrew term elohim.

You spell elohym with a lower case, are we not speaking English, then where is the upper case E?

There is no such lower case in Biblical Hebrew!
 
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Hoshiyya

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You spell elohym with a lower case, are we not speaking English, then where is the upper case E?

Yes?

When using this word to refer to Hashem, I usually spell it with capital letters (Elohim). When not specifically referring to him I may not capitalize it.

Likewise:
If I am talking about the creator of a software program, I could call that person a creator. Small c.
When using the same word to describe the Creator of the world I use a capital C.

C the difference ?
 
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Laureate

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You don't have to agree with me.

I simply presented the scriptures. They plainly refer to angels as elohim.

I don't know what you want me to do with the scriptures you presented. I do not see how any of them problematize this linguistic issue, nor am I a missionary whose job is to convince people of various propositions.


Aww, but we are asked to come together to reason with one another, and we also desire each other to be in accord with our Maker, and have both made earnest efforts to represent Him, have we not?

And though we be at odds, do not we still have Love for one another? Let this satisfy us for now as we continue to grow in His word!
 
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