Is Holiness Possible Without Yeshua

[David Ben Yosef]

Nope.

Jesus Christ is the LORD, and no righteousness can be attained apart from the LORD.

That is not what Yeshua himself said.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

I always thought holiness and righteousness were the same thing.

Here is a recent thread discussing righteousness: Clicky

Have I become the spokesman for MJs because I was first to respond?

I sure hope not, since your not even Messianic.

 

[mercy1061]

In the Temple there was the Holy of Holies, the Inner Court and the Outer Court. The B'riyt HaHhadashah (Brit Chadash) implies that Messianic Judaism Believers now have direct access to the Holy of Hollies.





Is Messianic Judaism of one mind that true Holiness is only attainable with the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit and that the keeping of the Ten Commandments is only possible with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Imagine a criminal being set apart from society, so that the larger society does not become corrupt; the criminal would have limited space to move after he has been judged or sentenced.

 

[Near]

Yes there is, but salvation is salvation.

I think the problem is that most people do not know the difference between salvation and reward, not knowing the difference between the outer court, and the Temple proper, and not knowing that the 3 sections of the Temple shadow the 3 sections of heaven.

People walk up to Jesus and say,'' But Lord, we taught your name in the streets, and we did miracles in your name.''

But these people are sent to the outer court where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Does God still love the Jews that he has blinded himself? Is he going to punish them for not believing when he has made it impossible for them to believe? Don't sound like the merciful God I know.

And if God has seen fit to blind them to the point of their not being able to believe, would he also condemn them?

Paul says,'' no.''

Paul say that they are enemies of the gospel but beloved for the sake of the fathers, and he also says that if their rejection means salvation for the whole world, then what will be their acceptance other than life from death?


Jesus came and was rejected by his brothers just as Joseph was, and what did Joseph tell his brothers who rejected him?

Joseph told them that it was meant to be so that pretty much ALL THE WORLD would be saved, because it was truly the whole world that came into Egypt.

The story of Joseph is all I need to know about the forgiveness God has for his chosen people but there is plenty of scriptures that show God coming to turn unrighteousness from them, and this promise is not made to any other people.

Paul says that the Messiah will come out of Zion to turn unrighteousness from them because?

Because they are enemies for your sake, for your sake.

But BELOVED for the sake of the fathers, and promises given to them.

Joel.

“Egypt shall be a desolation,
And Edom a desolate wilderness,
Because of violence against the people of Judah,
For they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20
But Judah shall abide forever,
And Jerusalem from generation to generation.

21
For I will acquit them of the guilt of bloodshed, whom I had not acquitted;
For the Lord dwells in Zion.


Not only are the Jews God's chosen people, but he promises to come and punish everyone who has been against them when he turns unrighteousness from them.

And there are many more scriptures showing God's love for his people, but the story of Joseph says everything, and Paul backs it up.


Is Paul wrong when he says that they are enemies for our sake and beloved for the sake of the fathers?




Again, I would say that most people don't understand the design of the Temple enough to understand salvation and reward.


There will be plenty of people saved, but it can still be said of saved people,'' They shall not enter the kingdom.''


We can see this in many scriptures, one of which shows the sons of the kingdom coming to recline with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, They are in the kingdom having been saved, but they are escorted out to a lower realm.

I asked if there was salvation for those who continue to deny Yeshua by their words and works.

Examples: An atheist homosexual, who dies in his sins.
(or even a homosexual "christian")
An orthodox Jew who supports traditional marriage, and despises much of the liberalism of society.

Answer: no salvation for such a person

They must go to Christ for salvation, and be cleansed by his blood.

Revelation 21:8 NKJV

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Not only are they "not inheriting the kingdom", they are also in "the lake of fire" which is the second death.

All liars, and who is a liar but he who denies Christ?
I John 2:22-23 NKJV

Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

To add more, there is salvation for Israel, in the Church.
Israel being saved does not mean every single person who is Jewish is saved. Ex. Homosexual Jews are not saved, scripture provided above. Likewise, Christ denying Jews, are not saved either, being liars.

It sounds harsh: it's a point that needs to be stressed which is a truth that some find discomforting.

God is merciful, but that doesn't mean Rob Bell is right.