Is God the "first cause of everything" (including sin) as the Westminster Confession says?

[fizzygiraffe]

Almost everyone in his forum claims to be Christian. A little debate sometimes shows that it is not necessarily so in every case.

If you can provide a person with some space by broaching a controversial subject and asking for a response - it really brings their beliefs to the surface.

That's actually a part of the purpose of starting a thread like this.

Thank you for sharing.

I get that. Good job.

 

[AndOne]

By the way. Calvinists and those in the Reformation movement?

Have you ever considered absconding to the Semper Reformada forum for your discussions? This way the Troll kind, the atheists, the anti's, can't bait, flame, goad, and harass you there?

Good point - I spend more time there lately.

 

[Butch5]

One thing to consider: the Septuagint is a translation itself. If you want to be as accurate as possible, you'd have to go to the original Hebrew. It matters also what set of manuscripts are being used in the translation to English. There are some inferior ones out there. It's not an easy subject, and a lot is at stake. You bring up some good points, and I'm glad we stepped aside from the conversation to talk together.

I agree. The Septuagint is a translation, however, it was translated by Jewish scholars. I realize that still leaves open the possibility of bias, however, since they spoke both languages I think the accuracy would be pretty good. Also, Jesus and the Apostles quoted it in the NT. To my knowledge we don't have the Hebrew that the Septuagint was translated from.

I am too am glad we has this conversation it was very uplifting, thank you!

 

[^j^RaspberryAngel]

That's a good idea. Though it is probably what the troll kind, atheists, anti's and baiters want of us. To hide away into our own forum so we're not targeted by their hate. Then they can feel they've won a victory harassing us enough that we leave the entire forum and all its boards to their predation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's a good idea. Though it is probably what the troll kind, atheists, anti's and baiters want of us. To hide away into our own forum so we're not targeted by their hate. Then they can feel they've won a victory harassing us enough that we leave the entire forum and all its boards to their predation.

So, just to be clear, anyone who enters into debate with a Calvinist is either a troll kind, an atheists, or anti- baiters, is that it? That seems a pretty lofty view of oneself, huh.

When one enters a debate forum, one should expect to get a debate. That's not harrassment.

While some view debates as something to win, I would hope that on Christian debate forums, one should be able to defend truth. If Calvinism is true, then we should expect to find clear teachings and claims in Scripture that directly support Calvinism's claims.

The purpose of debate is to determine who's views are best supported by Scripture.

To claim that those who debate against one's own position is merely harassment and hatred shows the paucity of their own support from Scripture.

 

[nobdysfool]

So, just to be clear, anyone who enters into debate with a Calvinist is either a troll kind, an atheists, or anti- baiters, is that it? That seems a pretty lofty view of oneself, huh.

No, but there have been a lot of trolls and anti-Calvinists who have come in here, not to debate Soteriology, but to bait, goad, and harass Calvinists.

When one enters a debate forum, one should expect to get a debate. That's not harrassment.

There is a difference between debate and harassment.

While some view debates as something to win, I would hope that on Christian debate forums, one should be able to defend truth. If Calvinism is true, then we should expect to find clear teachings and claims in Scripture that directly support Calvinism's claims.

Now you're injecting your own often-repeated demand into the mix. Not all truths are just laying out in the open, like jewels strewn about in a parking lot.

The purpose of debate is to determine who's views are best supported by Scripture.

To claim that those who debate against one's own position is merely harassment and hatred shows the paucity of their own support from Scripture.

Another purpose of debate here is fellowship with believers who have differing viewpoints. No one is claiming that debating against our position is merely and only hatred and harassment. What we're addressing is those whose agenda is not to learn, but rather to tear down, destroy, and disrupt. Their actions are no reflection or judgment against our position. In fact, such actions actually reflect more badly on the non-Calvinist position, which they claim to be. Odd how the trolls get a free pass from those who are against Calvinism. That would be a point to ponder.....

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, but there have been a lot of trolls and anti-Calvinists who have come in here, not to debate Soteriology, but to bait, goad, and harass Calvinists.

I've not seen any posts like that. And since all of this violates forum rules, I'm sure they'd be edited out and ultimately banned from the forum.

There is a difference between debate and harassment.

I don't see asking for support from Scripture qualifies as harassment.

Now you're injecting your own often-repeated demand into the mix. Not all truths are just laying out in the open, like jewels strewn about in a parking lot.

The truth is this: all truth CAN be supported from clear Scripture. God's Word tells us to study by being diligent, to show ourselves approved, by rightly dividing the Word of Truth. It doesn't say to get out a microscope in order to find truth. My understanding of theology is quite basic and simple, and I can support all of it from Scripture that says what I believe.

Another purpose of debate here is fellowship with believers who have differing viewpoints. No one is claiming that debating against our position is merely and only hatred and harassment.

That seemed to be the view of the other poster.

What we're addressing is those whose agenda is not to learn, but rather to tear down, destroy, and disrupt.

Are the mods not doing their job, then? All this is in violation of forum rules. If one feels they are being torn down, destroyed and disrupted, the only answer is to report the post and let the mods do their job.

Their actions are no reflection or judgment against our position. In fact, such actions actually reflect more badly on the non-Calvinist position, which they claim to be.

Well, let's not just lump all "non-Calvinists" into the same pile.

Odd how the trolls get a free pass from those who are against Calvinism. That would be a point to ponder.....

It should be reported as a violation of forum rules. I can't believe the mods would allow such activity if brought to their attention.

 

[nobdysfool]

I've not seen any posts like that. And since all of this violates forum rules, I'm sure they'd be edited out and ultimately banned from the forum.


I don't see asking for support from Scripture qualifies as harassment.


The truth is this: all truth CAN be supported from clear Scripture. God's Word tells us to study by being diligent, to show ourselves approved, by rightly dividing the Word of Truth. It doesn't say to get out a microscope in order to find truth. My understanding of theology is quite basic and simple, and I can support all of it from Scripture that says what I believe.


That seemed to be the view of the other poster.


Are the mods not doing their job, then? All this is in violation of forum rules. If one feels they are being torn down, destroyed and disrupted, the only answer is to report the post and let the mods do their job.


Well, let's not just lump all "non-Calvinists" into the same pile.


It should be reported as a violation of forum rules. I can't believe the mods would allow such activity if brought to their attention.

You have much more faith in unbiased moderation than I do. I have been here long enough to know that.

If you haven't seen the trolls, you either weren't paying attention, or you agreed with them. There were two here recently. It appears they're gone now.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have much more faith in unbiased moderation than I do. I have been here long enough to know that.

If you haven't seen the trolls, you either weren't paying attention, or you agreed with them. There were two here recently. It appears they're gone now.

I don't generally follow posts between other posters. I may have missed them. I pay close attention to all responses to my posts.

 

[AndOne]

That's a good idea. Though it is probably what the troll kind, atheists, anti's and baiters want of us. To hide away into our own forum so we're not targeted by their hate. Then they can feel they've won a victory harassing us enough that we leave the entire forum and all its boards to their predation.

Those guys usually get banned from what I've seen.