Is Christianty elitist?

[Gumph]

It seems to me that only some people are successful in finding or discovering God. Others fail in their search, are still looking, have given up looking, have found something else or never began in the first place. This latter group seems to far outnumber those who have been successful.

Is this not a cause for concern to Christians, that so many others fail?
Is it really necessary to make the search so difficult?

 

[Hospes]

Is this not a cause for concern to Christians, that so many others fail??

It's at least enough of a concern that Christians give $45B/year in support of missions.

Is it really necessary to make the search so difficult?

For many the difficult part is not the search, but what to do once they have found. Gumph, another way of seeking the answer to your question is to ask yourself why the acceptance of what you have found is difficult to accept.

 

[brinny]

Are you familiar with these words from Jesus?

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." ~Matthew 11:28-30

 

[Albion]

It seems to me that only some people are successful in finding or discovering God. Others fail in their search, are still looking, have given up looking, have found something else or never began in the first place. This latter group seems to far outnumber those who have been successful.

Is this not a cause for concern to Christians, that so many others fail?
Is it really necessary to make the search so difficult?

I think you've missed the point. Some religions, like Islam and Buddhism, simply lay out a set of beliefs and duties, and if you go with them, you're "in." With Christianity, however, the fullest meaning of discipleship is not a formal affiliation but a personal connection with God (that's where your concern enters into the discussion).

Obviously, I'd say, achieving this is more difficult. But it's not a shortcoming in Christianity!

You can still join a Christian church and show up on Sunday, have no more emotional involvement in the religion than that, and be up to the standards of most other religions. Indeed, there are many formal or nominal Christians who do little more than this, and they're considered by society to be Christian just the same.

 

[Mary7]

To me, 'religion' is man trying to find God and usually by keeping a set of rules and earning it.
Christianity is God reaching out to man and the relationship/salvation can not be earned.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2
We are not elitists, we are beggars telling other beggars where to find bread.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What I really believe is that if we as Christians followed the two most important commandments; to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself we would understand God much better.

The first of these commandments is to love God.

That is the basic tenant of our faith besides faith itself.

But I think (but this is a very strong opinion) that if we as Christians really love God. With real love, that Christianity would be much different.

But many people do not find that love in their relationship with God. For some, the relationship is based on fear. Fear of hell, fear of falling short in sin, fear that they are not good enough and just plain getting caught up in life. But we were not meant to NOT BE in relationship with God. That is one of the things that Christ died for, so we could once again have God with us. God indwelling us through the Holy Spirit. That is powerful stuff, but many miss all that they have been given because they do not see what they have in the New Covenant. Loving God, IMHO prepares us to love another in the way that we need to love in order to keep the second most important commandment, to love others. If we do not love God and realize His love for us, than it is really hard to love another human being before ourselves, because we are carnal first, spiritual second (in most cases).

But when we can realize that spiritual relationship with God and see that we are not just who we are as human beings in this body that is prone to sin, but when we realize that we are so much more and that one day we will spend all eterinity with the God we love, than that puts spiritual things into perspective for us. The long haul, not the short race that is our lives on earth.

Loving the Lord, really loving God, is to want what He wants. Is to be a servant of Christ, who is a servant of the Father, and then we can be a servant of Christ to mankind. Because that is what we all are in the end, is servants who in Christ's name serve as our Lord Jesus served.

Not that we do it well, but love is what creates that relationship. so let's find our love for God.

 

[Job8]

Is it really necessary to make the search so difficult?

The difficulty lies with the pride of human beings. A sinner must come to the Savior acknowledging that he is a sinner and that all his *righteousness* is as filthy rags. A human being must come to Christ with the understanding that (1) he is a transgressor of God's laws and therefore already condemned to Hell and (2) that he can do absolutely nothing for his salvation other that receive Christ as his Savior. The majority of the human race believes that *religion* and being *religious* will somehow make him fit for Heaven. The Gospel overturns this belief altogether.

Elitism is a human concept. Christianity is the opposite of elitist, since those who are wise with the wisdom of the world, and those who are wealthy with the wealth of the world, generally do not come to Christ. Thus the publicans and sinners flocked to Christ while the religious despised Him.

 

[Mary7]

What I really believe is that if we as Christians followed the two most important commandments; to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself we would understand God much better.

The first of these commandments is to love God.

That is the basic tenant of our faith besides faith itself.

But I think (but this is a very strong opinion) that if we as Christians really love God. With real love, that Christianity would be much different.

But many people do not find that love in their relationship with God. For some, the relationship is based on fear. Fear of hell, fear of falling short in sin, fear that they are not good enough and just plain getting caught up in life. But we were not meant to NOT BE in relationship with God. That is one of the things that Christ died for, so we could once again have God with us. God indwelling us through the Holy Spirit. That is powerful stuff, but many miss all that they have been given because they do not see what they have in the New Covenant. Loving God, IMHO prepares us to love another in the way that we need to love in order to keep the second most important commandment, to love others. If we do not love God and realize His love for us, than it is really hard to love another human being before ourselves, because we are carnal first, spiritual second (in most cases).

But when we can realize that spiritual relationship with God and see that we are not just who we are as human beings in this body that is prone to sin, but when we realize that we are so much more and that one day we will spend all eterinity with the God we love, than that puts spiritual things into perspective for us. The long haul, not the short race that is our lives on earth.

Loving the Lord, really loving God, is to want what He wants. Is to be a servant of Christ, who is a servant of the Father, and then we can be a servant of Christ to mankind. Because that is what we all are in the end, is servants who in Christ's name serve as our Lord Jesus served.

Not that we do it well, but love is what creates that relationship. so let's find our love for God.

Amen!

 

[Mary7]

Elitism is a human concept. Christianity is the opposite of elitist, since those who are wise with the wisdom of the world, and those who are wealthy with the wealth of the world, generally do not come to Christ. Thus the publicans and sinners flocked to Christ while the religious despised Him.

Very true. I have to wonder if Jesus appeared on earth today in America if the 'religious' ones that make themselves heard so loudly would have anything to do with him or would toss him out as being a liberal.

"He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing." Deuteronomy 10:18
Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns." Deuteronomy 24:14
'Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the fatherless or the widow.' Then all the people shall say, Amen!'" Deuteronomy 27:19
because I rescued the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to assist him." Job 29:12

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35
"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18
"All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do." Galatians 2:10
On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'" Romans 12:20

 

[Winken]

In tear dampened moments
I sigh and sigh
sorrow overwhelms me
and I want to cry
then I go to my Savior
He hears my prayer
and so sweetly tells me
Child, I am here.
In tear dampened moments
I look to my Lord
and I find comfort
within His soft words
those tear dampened moments
Led me to Him
He changed my sighs
to gladness within.

 

[oi_antz]

It seems to me that only some people are successful in finding or discovering God. Others fail in their search, are still looking, have given up looking, have found something else or never began in the first place. This latter group seems to far outnumber those who have been successful.

Is this not a cause for concern to Christians, that so many others fail?

Yes. Why are these people not crying out to God?

Is it really necessary to make the search so difficult?

Why have you assumed that finding God is a difficult search?

 

[ViaCrucis]

It seems to me that only some people are successful in finding or discovering God. Others fail in their search, are still looking, have given up looking, have found something else or never began in the first place. This latter group seems to far outnumber those who have been successful.

Is this not a cause for concern to Christians, that so many others fail?
Is it really necessary to make the search so difficult?

Coming from a Lutheran perspective, I'd argue that there is no finding or discovering God.

That is to say Christianity isn't about finding God. Christianity is about God coming down to encounter and meet man. That's the point of the Incarnation, the Church, the preaching of the Gospel, and the Sacraments.

Being a Christian, therefore, isn't about being among the elite; it's about the promises of God, the call and commission of God. The Christian is not one who has found God, the Christian is one who has received the word of Christ, "Come and follow."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[jimmyjimmy]

"All you need to become a Christian is nothing, but very few have it." (can't recall who said this)

Jesus, in His own words, "came to seek and save the lost". He also came for sinners, not the righteous.

Christians are not elitists, far from from it. The entrance exam includes admitting that you are a wretched sinner, incapable of good. You have to call out for mercy in your blind and helpless state. That's the antithesis of elitism.

None of this is possible outside of God's seeking and saving. We don't find Him. He finds us.

 

[oi_antz]

None of this is possible outside of God's seeking and saving. We don't find Him. He finds us.

This is to Gumph, who might be confused by this and what I said, that finding God is a difficult search. Rather, the difficulty is around deciding to not live the way that we like. While all work of salvation is owed to God's grace, still some responsibility lies with us, to live according to His way.
Revelation 3:20 - He doesn't have a hard time finding us, but rather we may have a hard time inclining toward Him.
John 15:2 - Some people refuse to grow into what God desires them to be.

 

[Gumph]

Once again thank you to all who have taken the time to post replies.

It's at least enough of a concern that Christians give $45B/year in support of missions.
For many the difficult part is not the search, but what to do once they have found. Gumph, another way of seeking the answer to your question is to ask yourself why the acceptance of what you have found is difficult to accept.

The concern I refer to is not so much that Christians need to up their game, but rather are you not concerned that something so crucial is being lost to most people who live on this planet? Is there perhaps not an issue with the design?

I'm not sure this site is the correct place to debate what I have found. So far I think that I have indeed accepted what I have found, in my opinion anyway. I have found a different path to most on this website, and that puts me in the majority on this planet. This is what would worry me, if Christianity is indeed true.

Are you familiar with these words from Jesus?

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." ~Matthew 11:28-30

I have to tell you that quotes from scripture give me a headache. Its not written in a way that is easy to understand and it seems to often be so ambiguous, or have no obvious meaning at all. Essentially I'm asking if its possible to answer using your own words so that I can make sense of them. Thanks.

I think you've missed the point. Some religions, like Islam and Buddhism, simply lay out a set of beliefs and duties, and if you go with them, you're "in." With Christianity, however, the fullest meaning of discipleship is not a formal affiliation but a personal connection with God (that's where your concern enters into the discussion).

Obviously, I'd say, achieving this is more difficult. But it's not a shortcoming in Christianity!

You can still join a Christian church and show up on Sunday, have no more emotional involvement in the religion than that, and be up to the standards of most other religions. Indeed, there are many formal or nominal Christians who do little more than this, and they're considered by society to be Christian just the same.

Why is making becoming a true Christian a difficult process not a shortcoming?
Your last paragraph seems to indicate that the group of true Christians is even smaller than the commonly used numbers. This makes it even more elitist, and more difficult to "join". I'm still not sue why this should be the case.

 

[Albion]

Why is making becoming a true Christian a difficult process not a shortcoming?

IS it a "difficult process?"

Your last paragraph seems to indicate that the group of true Christians is even smaller than the commonly used numbers

Of course it is. And this is true for any religion. There are real devotees and there are also nominal adherents.

This makes it even more elitist, and more difficult to "join".

I don't see any reason to conclude what you have. What makes it "elitist" merely because you have to really commit yourself instead of being only a "fair weather" follower or something like that? You don't have to pass some entrance examination, be voted upon by someone, pay membership dues, or etc., and you also don't have great honor conferred upon you as a result of making your commitment.

Both the words "difficult" and "elite" appear to be inappropriate when we look closely at the proposition.

 

[Gumph]

To me, 'religion' is man trying to find God and usually by keeping a set of rules and earning it.
Christianity is God reaching out to man and the relationship/salvation can not be earned.
We are not elitists, we are beggars telling other beggars where to find bread.

The "finding" of God I'm referring to is the initial discovery that the Christian God does indeed exist. The journey you refer to where you follow him is a different matter.
By "elite" I mean reserved for a special minority. I do not necessarily mean a wealthy group or a group of high social standing. The group of beggars you refer to appear to be a minority on this planet.

What I really believe is that if we as Christians followed the two most important commandments; to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself we would understand God much better.

This becomes your journey once you discover God in your life. My questions refer to all the many souls who don't even get to that stage. All those who do not even find God in the first place. Loving him can only come after you discover him.

The difficulty lies with the pride of human beings. A sinner must come to the Savior acknowledging that he is a sinner and that all his *righteousness* is as filthy rags......

Elitism is a human concept. Christianity is the opposite of elitist, since those who are wise with the wisdom of the world, and those who are wealthy with the wealth of the world, generally do not come to Christ. Thus the publicans and sinners flocked to Christ while the religious despised Him.

So why did he create most people with a pride level that prevents them from being saved?

Elite in terms of it being a small group of selected, chosen or special individuals. Not elite in terms of wealth or social standing. Christianity appears to be only for the select few?

 

[Gumph]

Yes. Why are these people not crying out to God?

Why have you assumed that finding God is a difficult search?

Because they don't believe he is here. He seems to be hiding, or does not exist.

I haven't assumed its difficult, I have personally found it to be extremely difficult:
- He has never communicated directly with me.
- I cannot get a personal relationship going with him.
- I have no personal experience of him.

Then there is also the matter of most people never finding him. If the success rate is less than 50%, what other answer could there be other than that the task is too difficult?

Coming from a Lutheran perspective, I'd argue that there is no finding or discovering God.

That is to say Christianity isn't about finding God. Christianity is about God coming down to encounter and meet man. That's the point of the Incarnation, the Church, the preaching of the Gospel, and the Sacraments.

Being a Christian, therefore, isn't about being among the elite; it's about the promises of God, the call and commission of God. The Christian is not one who has found God, the Christian is one who has received the word of Christ, "Come and follow."

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you. I must admit to not knowing too much about Lutheran interpretations.

The question however does not change in essence. It just becomes: Why do so few people receive the word of God? Why does he make his message so unclear and hidden, so that so few receive it?

"All you need to become a Christian is nothing, but very few have it." (can't recall who said this)

Christians are not elitists, far from from it. The entrance exam includes admitting that you are a wretched sinner, incapable of good. You have to call out for mercy in your blind and helpless state. That's the antithesis of elitism.

None of this is possible outside of God's seeking and saving. We don't find Him. He finds us.

Sorry, once again, I meant elite as in special small group. Even if the group has nothing. They still seem to be the chosen few.

If its him doing the finding, then its possibly worse. Now the high failure rate is due to him?

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Are you familiar with these words from Jesus?

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." ~Matthew 11:28-30

I have to tell you that quotes from scripture give me a headache. Its not written in a way that is easy to understand and it seems to often be so ambiguous, or have no obvious meaning at all. Essentially I'm asking if its possible to answer using your own words so that I can make sense of them. Thanks..

i fail to see how scripture, such as the scripture i posted above, can give anyone a headache.

 

[Gumph]

Rather, the difficulty is around deciding to not live the way that we like. While all work of salvation is owed to God's grace, still some responsibility lies with us, to live according to His way.

Before deciding how to live, one first has to believe that that decision is even necessary in the first place.
Why did he create us with urges and desires to live a certain way and then instruct us to live another way. To me that makes things unnecessarily difficult.