Is Christianity about spreading theology or expressing the love of Christ?

[bling]

I think all love for our fellow man expressed by compassion and action is Godly type love. What kind of love is not?

What is the motive for the Love?

 

[aiki]

I would never disagree that Christianity (even my own very "liberal" branch/tradition) doesn't have real absolutes. However going around telling people they are "wrong" is insulting, whether they are wrong or not.

I think that would depend upon the motive for doing so and how I frame telling someone they are wrong, don't you? If I tell my neighbor he is wrong to wash his car with an orbital sander because I want to protect him from the terrible damage to his car such a washing will cause, am I simply being insulting? I think not. In fact, I am being charitable and kind. Mind you, if I yell across the fence at him that he is a brainless fool for using an orbital sander to wash his car, he may ignore me simply to spite me. Not a good way to approach this matter, is it? Obviously not. If, however, I am loving both in my motive and method of communicating to someone that they are wrong, I do no wrong myself in saying so.

It seems to me far more evil to remain silent while another moves blissfully on toward hell than to speak up and tell them where they are headed. But doing so involves telling them they are wrong. Would you be silent in order to protect another's feelings even though doing so damns them to eternal torment? I certainly hope not!

To me there is a real difference between debating viewpoints, stating your beliefs and evidence for them, and saying: "Hey buddy, you aren't a Christian!"

I think its just as bad to let a person think they are saved and going to heaven when they are not, as it is to let an unsaved person go blindly on into an eternity separated from God. Love demands that we say something to such people.

Selah.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

"Rob Bell is a wolf in sheep's clothing (and, quite frankly, the sheep costume is beginning to wear thin) and, from this quote, it doesn't look like he understands the nature of the Church."

I hope maybe you can see the irony in your response considering the nature of this discussion lol

I don't know who Rob Bell is, and honestly I don't care. If that quote had come out of Anton Levey's mouth it wouldn't resonate with me any less. Truth is truth.

"What if they're the same? For instance, you would, no doubt, disagree with the Bible's teaching that homosexuality is a sin. But if I don't share the Gospel with the homosexual, knowing that he is in danger of God's wrath on Judgement Day unless he repents, is that really loving? "

I think the disdain Christians treat homosexuals with is disgusting. However, I am ambivalent as to whether or not it is a sin. It's not important to me personally. We are all sinners, but to pretend homosexuality is somehow a worse sin than being a liar, a hypocrite, or an adulterer is ridiculous whether or not you believe it is a sin.

"Wouldn't the loving thing be to warn them of the danger of their behavior?"

Why is the first thing a Christian needs to do put fingers at a person's sin? That too disgusts me. To think that you can't love someone unconditionally, and let God deal with their shortfalls strikes me as arrogant. On top of that no one will listen to you when you're condemning them. It will just harden their hearts. Christians should think before they go about casting judgement.

"The problem with pluralism is that the Bible is not pluralistic. It contains an objective and authoritative code of beliefs."

To think that the Bible doesn't lend itself to multiple interpretations is to avoiding reality. Just look at how many protestant denominations there are based on one Bible! Of course you may think there is only one correct way of looking at it, but so does everyone who is certain their belief is the "right" way.

"One either believes these things or they don't, in which case, they are not a Christian and are going to Hell. That's a very unpopular thing to say in this Kum Bah Yah world we live in, but that's just what the Bible teaches."

I'm not going to debate this point b/c that would turn into a completely different discussion and I don't want o side-track too much. I will say it is God that ultimately judges us, and at that point, we won't have to worry about the "proper" interpretation of the Bible, only God's grace and mercy.

"I hear this from Roman Catholics, quite a bit. I can't find any evidence for this. We preach the same Gospel, worship with the same hymns, affirm the same creeds, confessions, and catechisms, participate in one another's services, etc. We frequently partner with a Presbyterian church in our evangelism efforts."

There may have been some sort of official canon for the various sects of Christians in the first and second centuries, however I've heard that there were upwards of 50 gospels at one point, not to mention multiple sects of Christians. To say that Christianity was a unified belief system before Constantine and the Council of Nicea would simply be ignoring history. On top of the Protestant canon was further edited by Martin Luther (if I'm not mistaken).

"If you're not sharing the Gospel with the lost, you have no right to talk about love."

This is unbelievably insulting and condescending.

Consider this passage. There is no stipulation that one need to spread a belief system to know what love is.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8New International Version (NIV)

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Consider Mathew 25:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.



The emphasis is on meeting the needs of others. That is love also.




"Really? How do you know they're Christians? Does that really seem consistent with any description of Christianity you've ever read in the Bible?"

They read the same Bible as anyone else. I'm only making the point the Bible doesn't necessarily always lead to people showing love. The same Bible can lead to people being very hateful and arrogant.

"If I was your friend and I saw you doing something wrong, would I still be loving if I never corrected you about it?"

If you aren't my friend and you were correcting me about things in my personal life then you would never be my friend lol You can't control the world. I think it's ridiculous for Christians to think it is their duty to correct the morals of other people instead of loving them unconditionally as Christ would do.

"Do you think Christ's will is that we go to the unregenerate and present the Gospel to them? How about making disciples?"

Sure but I think Christians often spread theology without embodying Christ's love, which I think its ultimately worthless.

"Have you read your posts in this thread? So far, that's all you've done."

That's fair. But I'm really trying to question what is most important of us? Spreading a belief system or embodying the love of Christ? In the Baptist school I grew up in theology was more important than loving others, so it's personally a very meaningful question. Not pointing fingers at any forum members here, as I don't know any of you all. However I know Christians who are extremely arrogant about their beliefs. I just think that kind of attitude is destructive.

"Actually, you just did when you claimed that each denomination has different beliefs."

No I didn't.

"So, it's wrong to tell somebody that they're wrong when they're wrong? You do realize that your whole argument is based on telling us that we're wrong, right?"

Who here am I pointing fingers at? I am only talking about Christianity in general terms and Christians that I know personally.

"What if telling somebody they're wrong will stop them from making a terrible mistake? Should a nurse tell the doctor that he accidentally picked up the wrong bottle of medicine and is about to give a patient medicine that might kill him?

I read a story just yesterday about a Marine officer who mistakenly ordered a sniper to open fire on a group of Afghan men, only to find out too late that they were just children. Do you think somebody should have told him he was wrong?"

I'm not sure that situation relates to what I'm talking about.

"What if they're not a Christian? Should we ignore the Bible's teaching that we're to tell them the truth? Would it be loving to let them believe they're saved, only to have them find out they're not when they stand before Jesus?"

I'm not saying we shouldn't share the gospel with other people.


I guess what flabbergasts me the most about Christianity is that we have a Bible, churches, and organizations with the design to spread "Christianity" to other people, but no matter that a person learn the theology there is no way to teach people to internalize the simplest teachings of Christ i.e. "To love your neighbor as yourself" and "To treat others the way you would want to be treated."

It's been my experience that many Christians, with the best intentions of spreading the theology of Christianity, do so without treating others the way they would want to be treated. And it has also been my experience that many Christians are extremely disrespectful when they speak of other Christians with differing opinions and, whether they are right or not, I see no value in that sort of arrogance.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I don't know who Rob Bell is, and honestly I don't care. If that quote had come out of Anton Levey's mouth it wouldn't resonate with me any less. Truth is truth.

Rob Bell is an Evangelical pastor who has often been one of the more well known faces of the Emergent Movement in Evangelicalism. He came to wider attention last year after he wrote and published a book titled "Love Wins" which--to the best of my knowledge--says nothing particularly new in the broad scope of historic and orthodox Christian history, but which ruffled the feathers of the more conservative and fundamentalist sides of Evangelicalism. I think the basic premise--based on reviews I've read--of the book is that regardless of how all things work themselves out love wins in the end. Some have accused Bell of universalism which he has himself denied.

The modern Evangelical sub-culture doesn't always do well with Christians who don't toe the proper theological line, including fellow Evangelicals, non-Evangelical Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox and Anglicans.

Making the feather-ruffling more of the same. I've seen people accuse Billy Graham of similar, the same Graham who effectively and nearly single-handedly gave birth to the modern Evangelical movement back in the 40's.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[lucaspa]

I ask this question because b/c it often seems people get so caught up on their own particular version of "Christianity" that they don't seem to embody the love that Christ taught.

I know that protestants where I live don't believe all Catholics are "Christians" and Catholics are taught protestants go to Hell.

...
Obviously theology is necessary and quibbling over specifics will always be a part of Christianity. However is questioning how other people believe in Christ important enough to be insulting or condescending?

I have to ask is theology the central importance of Christianity or is God's love? When Christ asks us to spread the Gospel is he simply asking us to spread a system of beliefs?

Christ's command for the disciples was to "heal the sick, feed the poor, cast out demons" etc. I personally feel like those things should be first and foremost on our minds as they represent God's love and when we do those things we embody the will of Christ.

The answer is "yes". There is what is called the "Great Commission", where followers of Christ are supposed to preach the gospel to "all peoples". But there are also places in scripture (Matthew 25 comes immediately to mind) where Jesus calls on us to demonstrably show our love of our neighbor as part of following Christ.

You see, theology includes God's love and how that is supposed to play in our daily lives.

Yes, as far as Catholics are concerned, all Protestants are heretics. We join the Gnostics, Manicheans, Docetists, etc. as having a flawed and incorrect theology. As a Protestant, I don't worry about much that Catholicism considers me a heretic. And yes, Catholics are very much Christians.

Within all humans, there is a desire to be correct and a desire for power. What you describe are products of both. Having the most members is a measure of power, and people like to think that they have the "correct" version of Christianity.

If you like the list you gave to be of prime importance, I suggest you simply pick a denomination where those are of prime importance. I can suggest the United Methodist Church (the denomination I belong to) because its avowed emphasis is on Christian living. Episcopalians would also fit you, as would the United Church of Christ, Congregational. Presbyterian Church USA would be another choice.

After all, you are not required to participate in the behavior you find objectionable.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I ask this question because b/c it often seems people get so caught up on their own particular version of "Christianity" that they don't seem to embody the love that Christ taught.

I know that protestants where I live don't believe all Catholics are "Christians" and Catholics are taught protestants go to Hell.

I went to a Baptist school for 13 years and often if other Christians didn't match their own specific theological standards than they were considered heretics.

Obviously theology is necessary and quibbling over specifics will always be a part of Christianity. However is questioning how other people believe in Christ important enough to be insulting or condescending?

I have to ask is theology the central importance of Christianity or is God's love? When Christ asks us to spread the Gospel is he simply asking us to spread a system of beliefs?

Christ's command for the disciples was to "heal the sick, feed the poor, cast out demons" etc. I personally feel like those things should be first and foremost on our minds as they represent God's love and when we do those things we embody the will of Christ.

I understand how you feel, this has been something I've been wrestling with myself for a few years now. Sadly, this sort of thing has been a part of history for centuries. Arianism sparked the councils that created the Nicene Creed in the first half of the fourth century, the divisions between the East and the West led to the Schism of 1054, the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century. We seem to be locked in a state of perpetual argumentation as more and more factions are created, though not so much over crucial doctrinal matters as it is over tertiary matters these days.

“If the gospel isn't good news for everybody, then it isn't good news for anybody. And this is because the most powerful things happen when the church surrenders its desire to convert people and convince them to join. It is when the church gives itself away in radical acts of service and compassion, expecting nothing in return, that the way of Jesus is most vividly put on display. To do this, the church must stop thinking about everybody primarily in categories of in or out, saved or not, believer or nonbeliever."

Rob Bell

I came accross this quote on an atheist friend's FB wall today and I think it sums up the point I was trying to make better than I ever could. Ironic? =D


Thanks all for the replies, I'm going to have to reply in several posts b/c I don't know how to quote multiple people in one post >_<

It's an excellent quote and I think it's very true.

Mostly I feel some Christians are more concerned with spreading their own belief-system, more than they are concerned with embodying the love of Christ. IMHO treating other people with the respect and love Christ would show them, is more important than trying to convert them to your own personal viewpoint about what Christianity is and isn't. If you can't talk about theology without showing love then IMO you forfeit both.

It's true, and unfortunately that's inevitable much of the time. I've stated this a lot in different discussions on this board but I'll reiterate it here too: we all have our own lenses that we interpret Scripture through. Our families, our upbringing, the culture of our surrounding regions, our church culture, whatever denominations we may be (or have been) a part of, where we fall on the social scale, etc.

It helps if we have a reasonable grasp of history, as well as the culture that existed at the time the Scriptures were written so we can have a better understanding of the nuances that are often lost on westerners.

I don't think there is anything wrong with holding this viewpoint, however nearly everyone seems to think that their own doctrine is the "truth" and others are dissenters, heretics, and otherwise hellbound.

When the New Testament texts were written there was no official canon. Further almost every church on earth is going to say our way is the right way and other branches/traditions are the false gospel. Everyone has their own justification be it Biblical, traditional, or otherwise.

We can argue back and forth from here until eternity about what tradition is right and which aren't but we won't really gain anything from it. Everyone takes different evidence into account, has their own biases, and even views the exact same texts in completely different ways.

I'm just not sure that there is any benefit in theological certainty when it comes to many issues.

I share your frustration with this. From my experience, a church that isn't concerned about who's right or wrong (as in who's the latest heretic or what the trendiest heresy of the day is or who's doctrine is worse than ours) but is instead concerned with "how many ways can we show the Love of Christ to others by serving them and meeting their needs" are the communities worth being a part of.

Rob Bell is a wolf in sheep's clothing (and, quite frankly, the sheep costume is beginning to wear thin) and, from this quote, it doesn't look like he understands the nature of the Church. While it's true that we should be doing acts of charity, the Bible does make a very clear distinction between the Church's relationship to the regenerate and the unregenerate.



What if they're the same? For instance, you would, no doubt, disagree with the Bible's teaching that homosexuality is a sin. But if I don't share the Gospel with the homosexual, knowing that he is in danger of God's wrath on Judgement Day unless he repents, is that really loving?

Wouldn't the loving thing be to warn them of the danger of their behavior?



The problem with pluralism is that the Bible is not pluralistic. It contains an objective and authoritative code of beliefs. The Church, historically, has codified these beliefs into various creeds, confessions, and catechisms so that we can easily understand what is necessary for salvation, what is necessary for Christian growth, what is necessary for understanding the will and the works of God, the nature of God, etc.

One either believes these things or they don't, in which case, they are not a Christian and are going to Hell. That's a very unpopular thing to say in this Kum Bah Yah world we live in, but that's just what the Bible teaches.



I hear this from Roman Catholics, quite a bit. I can't find any evidence for this. We preach the same Gospel, worship with the same hymns, affirm the same creeds, confessions, and catechisms, participate in one another's services, etc. We frequently partner with a Presbyterian church in our evangelism efforts.

One of my favorite radio programs has a Baptist host, a Lutheran sidekick, and two Presbyterian producers. Although there's good natured ribbing about their differences, each of them makes it clear that their differences are very minor, non-essential issues.

I guess I'd be more inclined to believe your claims of disunity if I just didn't see unity everywhere.



If you're not sharing the Gospel with the lost, you have no right to talk about love.



Really? How do you know they're Christians? Does that really seem consistent with any description of Christianity you've ever read in the Bible?



If I was your friend and I saw you doing something wrong, would I still be loving if I never corrected you about it?



Do you think Christ's will is that we go to the unregenerate and present the Gospel to them? How about making disciples?

[wuotr]As someone who is more concerned with seeking truth humbly myself, I feel less driven to try to tell people what they should believe.

Have you read your posts in this thread? So far, that's all you've done.



Actually, you just did when you claimed that each denomination has different beliefs.



So, it's wrong to tell somebody that they're wrong when they're wrong? You do realize that your whole argument is based on telling us that we're wrong, right?

What if telling somebody they're wrong will stop them from making a terrible mistake? Should a nurse tell the doctor that he accidentally picked up the wrong bottle of medicine and is about to give a patient medicine that might kill him?

I read a story just yesterday about a Marine officer who mistakenly ordered a sniper to open fire on a group of Afghan men, only to find out too late that they were just children. Do you think somebody should have told him he was wrong?



What if they're not a Christian? Should we ignore the Bible's teaching that we're to tell them the truth? Would it be loving to let them believe they're saved, only to have them find out they're not when they stand before Jesus?

The notion that Rob Bell is a heretic, a "wolf in sheep's clothing", a universalist or whatever is nothing more than shameless propaganda sought out and perpetuated by individuals who cannot cope with the idea that their interpretations of the Scriptures may be wrong. It's a Christian existence that says the entire range of doctrinal belief has to fit within these narrow boundaries as they are defined by the accuser, with no exceptions. As soon as something compelling and orthodox comes that falls outside of these predefined boundaries it disrupts that safety, the bottom falls out and they have to launch a barrage of character assaults in a vain effort to defame a him.

 

[aiki]

THe idea that love trumps truth is itself a kind of "truth" (for some people, anyway). It is impossible, really, to have a serious point of view on anything without making an appeal to some "truth" or other. For example, is it true that Christians ought to love those who are around them? If it is, then loving one's neighbor is a truth of the Christian life. You just can't get away from truth and it is foolish to suggest that it is somehow irrelevant to how a Christian expresses God's love to the world.

Psalms 119:160
160 The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

John 17:17
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

Why do Christians value love so highly? Because they find it valued highly in the Scripture from which they derive their understanding of what it means to be a Christian. The Scripture, though, has a great deal to say about many other things besides love. It also commands the child of God to be holy, righteous, faithful, patient, content, joyful, thankful, and to be a careful student of the Word of God. For the Christian, the Word of God has power to command all these things of the believer, it is to be obeyed, because it is believed to be communicating God'sTruth to him/her. We Christians are to love our neighbors not because it is merely a loving thing to do but because we believe it is the right thing to do. And we believe it is the right thing to do because God has said in His Word that it is right and we believe that God speaks the truth to us. It is, then, impossible to separate Christian love from God's truth. They go hand-in-hand and anyone who suggests that they do not is promoting falsehood.

Exodus 34:5-6
5 Now the Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.
6 And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth,

Deuteronomy 32:3-4
3 For I proclaim the name of the Lord: Ascribe greatness to our God.
4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

1 Samuel 12:24
24 Only fear the Lord, and serve Him in truth with all your heart; for consider what great things He has done for you.

Psalms 15:1-2
1 A Psalm of David. Lord, who may abide in Your tabernacle? Who may dwell in Your holy hill?
2 He who walks uprightly, And works righteousness, And speaks the truth in his heart;

Psalms 25:10
10 All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth, To such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.

Psalms 33:4
4 For the word of the Lord is right, And all His work is done in truth.

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

John 4:23-24
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 8:30-32
30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Romans 1:18
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

1 Corinthians 5:7-8
7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

And so on. As you can see, anyone who suggests that careful attention to, and defense of, God's truth is not as important as loving others does not understand the nature and heart of God. He is all about truth as the verses above make very clear. And we ought to have the same concern over what is true and what isn't as He does.

There have always been those who would seek to subvert the truth and deceive the followers of Christ. They were active even as the The Church took its first steps into history.

2 Peter 2:1-3
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words...

Titus 1:10-14
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."
13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

2 John 1:7-11
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

These evil men, these deceivers, take after the Father of Lies, the devil, who constantly works to turn the truth of God into a lie. (Ge. 3:1; Matt. 3:16 - 4:11) Christians have good reason, then, to be constantly on guard, watching carefully for anything that would turn the faithful aside into falsehood.

Love does not trump Truth. Without Truth, Love is not truly Love.

1 John 3:18
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.


Selah.

 

[SharonL]

Its about spreading the love of Christ. Denominational arguing is immature and when you compare many of them your cutting hairs. Theres no denominations in heaven.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

T
If you like the list you gave to be of prime importance, I suggest you simply pick a denomination where those are of prime importance. I can suggest the United Methodist Church (the denomination I belong to) because its avowed emphasis is on Christian living. Episcopalians would also fit you, as would the United Church of Christ, Congregational. Presbyterian Church USA would be another choice.

After all, you are not required to participate in the behavior you find objectionable.

That is a good point.

This is probably sidetracking a bit, but I currently attend United Methodist Church which seems like a pretty good fit for me personally. A couple months ago our pastor was preaching and said: "God created man, and then man created God. Wouldn't it be more fitting for God to worship man?" Which is directly out of the Gospel of Philip; one of my favorite texts. I about fell out of my chair lol.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

"Love does not trump Truth. Without Truth, Love is not truly Love."

My main point was people won't listen to truth if you don't love them first. If one is more important than the other it's simply b/c no one will care about one without the other.

 

[Lukaris]

John 3:16

King James Version (KJV)

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[mathetes123]

It's about making disciples, which involves both. To have a proper understanding of Christ's love, you need a proper understanding of theology, the gospel in particular.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I hope maybe you can see the irony in your response considering the nature of this discussion lol

I don't know who Rob Bell is, and honestly I don't care. If that quote had come out of Anton Levey's mouth it wouldn't resonate with me any less. Truth is truth.

You should read both Velvet Elvis and Love Wins by Rob Bell. Both very good books that focus on exactly what you're considering. Rob Bell's "theology" is centred on love and he doesn't seem so concerned with the specifics of doctrine. It does seem fairly clear that he's doing it all for Jesus and Jesus is the centre of his belief system so I don't think one could say he is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[mathetes123]

“If the gospel isn't good news for everybody, then it isn't good news for anybody. And this is because the most powerful things happen when the church surrenders its desire to convert people and convince them to join. It is when the church gives itself away in radical acts of service and compassion, expecting nothing in return, that the way of Jesus is most vividly put on display. To do this, the church must stop thinking about everybody primarily in categories of in or out, saved or not, believer or nonbeliever."

Rob Bell

I came accross this quote on an atheist friend's FB wall today and I think it sums up the point I was trying to make better than I ever could. Ironic? =D

Thanks all for the replies, I'm going to have to reply in several posts b/c I don't know how to quote multiple people in one post >_<

To quote publius, rob bell is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is the social gospel and is a false gospel. The true gospel centers on the cross. How is Gods love expressed, but through what Jesus accomplished on the cross. Why did he have to die on the cross? He died to take the penalty for our sins. What is the penalty for sin? Death. Jesus last command to his disciples was to go out into the world and make disciples. He did not say to water down the gospel to remove the offensive parts.

 

[Gnarwhal]

To quote publius, rob bell is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is the social gospel and is a false gospel. The true gospel centers on the cross. How is Gods love expressed, but through what Jesus accomplished on the cross. Why did he have to die on the cross? He died to take the penalty for our sins. What is the penalty for sin? Death. Jesus last command to his disciples was to go out into the world and make disciples. He did not say to water down the gospel to remove the offensive parts.

I'll quote myself to save me time...

The notion that Rob Bell is a heretic, a "wolf in sheep's clothing", a universalist or whatever is nothing more than shameless propaganda sought out and perpetuated by individuals who cannot cope with the idea that their interpretations of the Scriptures may be wrong. It's a Christian existence that says the entire range of doctrinal belief has to fit within these narrow boundaries as they are defined by the accuser, with no exceptions. As soon as something compelling and orthodox comes that falls outside of these predefined boundaries it disrupts that safety, the bottom falls out and they have to launch a barrage of character assaults in a vain effort to defame a him.

Furthermore, the gospel is about the resurrection. Tens of thousands of people were crucified under the Roman Empire, but only one of them came back to life. The resurrection is what inaugurated the reconciliation of the cosmos to it's creator, it started then.

 

[mathetes123]

I'll quote myself to save me time...

Furthermore, the gospel is about the resurrection. Tens of thousands of people were crucified under the Roman Empire, but only one of them came back to life. The resurrection is what inaugurated the reconciliation of the cosmos to it's creator, it started then.

<p>1 Corinthians 1:18-25 (NKJV)</p><p></p><h4>Christ the Power and Wisdom of God
</h4><p>^{<small>18</small>}[bless and do not curse]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.^{<small>19</small>}[bless and do not curse]For it is written:
</p><blockquote><i>&ldquo;I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
</i></blockquote><blockquote><i>And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.&rdquo;</i>*</blockquote><p>^{<small>20</small>}[bless and do not curse]Where <i>is</i> the wise? Where <i>is</i> the scribe? Where <i>is</i> the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?^{<small>21</small>}[bless and do not curse]For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.^{<small>22</small>}[bless and do not curse]For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;^{<small>23</small>}[bless and do not curse]but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks* foolishness,^{<small>24</small>}[bless and do not curse]but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.^{<small>25</small>}[bless and do not curse]Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
</p>

 

[Gnarwhal]

You might want to edit that, you used the wrong kind of formatting and it triggered the swear filter.

It's a lovely verse, indeed. Let me ask you this: when you share the gospel, A) does it end after Christ's crucifixion or his resurrection and ascension? B) Is the point of his resurrection (in your version) to save people or all of creation?

 

[Emmy]

Dear XpistissopheiaX. Christianity is also a loving relationship between God our Heavenly Father, and our brothers and sisters in Christ. Jesus told us: " Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds. Also: Love your neighbour as yourselves. Our strongest weapon is Love: freely given and no conditions tagged on. Love will help us to overcome all enmity and adverity, and our love shared with each other, given us from Jesus and the Holy Spirit unites us. We share all love with all we know and all we meet, ( whether friend or not friend) and prove to the world at large that God is LOVE, and we who follow, are expressing the Love, which our Saviour and Leader Jesus Christ, has for all the world. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. "Who soever will may come," is an invitation from Christ, leave the world and all its empty promises, and join our loving relationship.

 

[hedrick]

To quote publius, rob bell is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is the social gospel and is a false gospel. The true gospel centers on the cross. How is Gods love expressed, but through what Jesus accomplished on the cross. Why did he have to die on the cross? He died to take the penalty for our sins. What is the penalty for sin? Death. Jesus last command to his disciples was to go out into the world and make disciples. He did not say to water down the gospel to remove the offensive parts.

It's false only if we say that serving others is all there is to the Gospel. But Jesus tells us to love people, even our enemies, and in the sheep and the goats that's the basis on which Jesus says we'll be judged. My observation is that people are seldom argued into faith. It's much more common that they are attracted to it. While we should identify ourselves as Christians when we are serving others, the service should come out of caring for people, and not be just a tactic for evangelism. Otherwise it's not actually love. We should find opportunities to talk with people about Christ as well, as Bell says right after the quote. but I think the quoted comment from Bell is perfectly OK.

 

[Iakobos]

Haha i think the sheer amount of denominations answers this question for you.