Is belief in the creation story a salvation issue?

[Indent]

you may be wrong on both counts let's see --

Are you informed to the point of actually addressing the details that refute the story you are telling?

Where's the refute? I'm unable to locate it.

 

[Speedwell]

QV please:


SOURCE

I get it. You think our human natures were actually changed by the fall--that we got more out of it than merely the knowledge of good and evil.

OK, some theistic evolutionists believe that. Acceptance of the "Garden" story as literal history is not required to sustain such a belief.

 

[Speedwell]

LOL

You just asked me what in the world sin nature was; now you say 'Some do, some don't'.

What gives here?

I was unfamiliar with the use of the term "sin nature" to refer to the Augustinian doctrine of Original Sin. I think its use in that way is largely restricted to Evangelicals.

 

[AV1611VET]

I get it. You think our human natures were actually changed by the fall--that we got more out of it than merely the knowledge of good and evil.

OK, some theistic evolutionists believe that. Acceptance of the "Garden" story as literal history is not required to sustain such a belief.

But evolution teaches that populations evolve ... not individuals.

Therefore "Adam" was a population, not a person.

Or am I wrong here?

 

[AV1611VET]

I was unfamiliar with the use of the term "sin nature" to refer to the Augustinian doctrine of Original Sin. I think its use in that way is largely restricted to Evangelicals.

Augustinian can take a hike.

Adam wrote it long before he did, and Paul confirmed it.

 

[rjs330]

I have responded to the details of your posts; you ignored my response.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind pointing out exactly where the verses you kepp posting specifically say that belief in the Genesis creation account is a salvation issue.

You and I wholeheartedly disagree with each other on God creating by evolution. But I agree with you on this. He posted scriptures which I believe in. But none of them make any statement on salvation. At least I don't see it there. I too would like to know where salvation is indicated in those scriptures and how it is tied to creation being literal.

 

[Speedwell]

Augustinian can take a hike.

Adam wrote it long before he did, and Paul confirmed it.

I didn't know Adam could write. Who did he write to?

 

[AV1611VET]

I didn't know Adam could write. Who did he write to?

Just out of curiosity, do you have access to the Internet?

There are 11 verses in Genesis which read, ‘These are (or ‘This is the book of’) the generations of …’ The Hebrew word toledoth translated ‘generations’ can also mean ‘origins’, ‘history’, or even ‘family history’, and each verse comes either before or after a description of historical events that involved the person named. The most likely explanation is that Adam, Noah, Shem, etc. each wrote an account of the events that occurred either right before or during his lifetime, and Moses, under the infallible inspiration of the Holy Spirit, selected, compiled, and edited these to produce Genesis in its present cohesive form.

SOURCE

 

[Speedwell]

Just out of curiosity, do you have access to the Internet?


SOURCE

If I did have access to the internet I wouldn't waste it on that bunch of bozos. If somebody from CRI told me that the sky was blue and grass was green I would look outside to check before I agreed with them about it.

 

[AV1611VET]

If I did have access to the internet I wouldn't waste it on that bunch of bozos.

Then it's no wonder you didn't know what I was talking about.

Here -- try this bozo: Wiseman hypothesis

 

[Archivist]

Evolutionists don't believe in original sin (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Therefore evolutionists think they're going to get into Heaven with original sin on their account.

Unless God has some amendment for them in the plan of salvation, well ... they'll be knock, knock, knocking at Heaven's door.

Well this evolutionist believes in original sin. Most of the Christians I know who believe that God used evolution to create humans believe in original sin.

 

[Archivist]

You and I wholeheartedly disagree with each other on God creating by evolution. But I agree with you on this. He posted scriptures which I believe in. But none of them make any statement on salvation. At least I don't see it there. I too would like to know where salvation is indicated in those scriptures and how it is tied to creation being literal.

We both agree that God created everything. We just differ on how He did it. We really aren't that far apart--an almighty God created us both. But yes, we keep seeing the same verses quoted over and over with no explanation on how any of them make belief in a literal Genesis creation account a salvation issue.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well this evolutionist believes in original sin.

Glad to hear it.

Most of the Christians I know who believe that God used evolution to create humans believe in original sin.

Then they're being disrespectful to the philosophy of evolution, which says populations evolve, not people.

 

[Archivist]

Glad to hear it.Then they're being disrespectful to the philosophy of evolution, which says populations evolve, not people.

How is that being disrespectful? Worth noting that Roman Catholics--who comprise a majority of Christians--are told that they can believe in evolution and yet still believe in original sin.

 

[AV1611VET]

Worth noting that Roman Catholics--who comprise a majority of Christians--

Speaking of "worth noting" ... if Roman Catholics comprise a majority of Christians, why are you a Lutheran?

Don't you believe in "consensus of opinion"?

Or are you a pick-and-choose closet scientist?

 

[Speedwell]

Then it's no wonder you didn't know what I was talking about.

Here -- try this bozo: Wiseman hypothesis

An amateur, but not necessarily a bozo. I have more respect for the RAF than that.

With respect to CRI, in those areas of the evolution/creation discussion in which I have some expertise (principally math and Information Theory) I know to a certainty that John Safarti and his goon squad are lying about it. They are "professional" creationists--I wouldn't trust them an inch.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have more respect for the RAF than that.

What's RAF stand for?

 

[Archivist]

Speaking of "worth noting" ... if Roman Catholics comprise a majority of Christians, why are you a Lutheran?

Don't you believe in "consensus of opinion"?

Or are you a pick-and-choose closet scientist?

I don't get your point. Just because a majority of Christians are Roman Catholic, why would I be Roman Catholic?

 

[Speedwell]

Speaking of "worth noting" ... if Roman Catholics comprise a majority of Christians, why are you a Lutheran?

Don't you believe in "consensus of opinion"?

Or are you a pick-and-choose closet scientist?

It doesn't matter. "Bible-believing" Evangelicals are a world to themselves. Lutherans and Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Orthodox Christians, Copts, Ethiopians, Syriacs, Armenians, etc. are all outside of it.

 

[AV1611VET]

My question: Does it really matter? Is this an issue that will determine one's salvation? If not, why do we spend so much time debating it?

This thread has gone to almost 1000 posts now.

Does that answer your question?