Is being SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT biblical.......

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

It looks as though David and his crew were possessed by evil spirits, or in the least, psycho-socially manipulated...

what does that have with charletans like Benny Hinn manipulating people?

What Bible translation are you useing there winsome? I suspect this reading will send some of the anti "full gospell" people in a frenzy when they read this translation.

God bless you winsome

Slain in the spirit is not "full gospel".

 

[nephilimiyr]

what does that have with charletans like Benny Hinn manipulating people?

I don't know, what does me having recieved a healing and when it happend loseing power to remain standing up have to do with what your talking about?

Have you ever recieved a healing from the Lord? Are you able to know God as your healer?

Slain in the spirit is not "full gospel".

Where do you see me saying or implying that it was?

You want people to read you in proper context but you feel free to assume?

 

[greeker57married]

"sawdust" was not denying the witness of the Holy Spirit to our spirit at all.

The point "sawdust" is making is that we are not to rely on "feelings", for "feelings" are highly unreliable and change often, and getting carried away in highly emotional states that leave one in a suggestable state, ready to fall for all kinds of abberant teachings and practices.

No-one "feels" God's Spirit. He is Spirit, not emotion. The Christian way of life is based on thinking not feeling.

I cannot agree with this statement. The Holy Spirit is not an emotion, but we do feel or sense the presence of the Holy Spirit, As He bears witness in our hearts.

God Bless
John

 

[Iollain]

I don't agree with that either, you sure can feel the presence of God at times.

 

[HisKid1973]

No-one "feels" God's Spirit. He is Spirit, not emotion. The Christian way of life is based on thinking not feeling.

I cannot agree with this statement. The Holy Spirit is not an emotion, but we do feel or sense the presence of the Holy Spirit, As He bears witness in our hearts.

God Bless
John

Just curious Bro..

No-one "feels" God's Spirit. and but we do feel or sense ??Remember the kindom of God is not meat or drink but righteous, peace and joy. Now for me being peaceful and joyful do use my emotions in a way wouldn't you say.Have you ever been in a service where you could feel/sense God's presence?..pax..kim

 

[DiscipleDave]

I am still confused. Ok so it doesnt really matter does it whether I feel God's Spirit in this way or not. It justs scares me, probably because I do not understand it and dont particulaly find it necessary to be a better christian.
It seems possible but I believe we do take things out of context.
I didnt know it belonged to a certain group of christians either, it just shows you.

Where in Scriptures does it say a person should bow their heads and close their eyes when they pray ??? Anyone ???? its not in there, that these are requirments to pray. It is something that we do, because we feel right about doing it.
i felt the same way you did when i seen people acting all retarded and the such ( not that it was, only that i viewed it as such ) and also questioned the validity in such actions, whether of God or not of God, Then it accured to me, who am i to judge them, if that action brings that particular person closer to God, Then who am i to judge that action. Then i started to think about Jesus looking down upon us and He sees the person shaking on the ground praising His name, then He looks at me and here i am looking at a person shaking on the ground praising Jesus, thinking that person is retarded, wandering if i thought that was Godly or not. Now which of the two pleased God, the one praising him, or the other who was doubting the one who was praising him?
i learnt something from this experience, it is better for me to be concerned about what i am doing to worship the Lord then to be concerned what others are doing to worship the Lord. One may want to pray sitting down face in hands, another may want to pray standing up looking towards heaven, another yet may pray standing while bowing his/her head, and yet another may pray on his/her knees with face on the ground.
One may worship God through Songs, another may worship God through shanking all over the floor, another may worship God by fasting and praying continually, one may worship God through his/her poems, one may even worship God by his/her thoughts, one may worship God by jumping up and down.
There is no reference whatsoever in the Bible that tells a person HOW they MUST worship, therefore Worship should be a personal thing between that person and God, Therefore if someone want to act retarded, well if it brings them closer to the Lord, then who am i to say it is wrong or evil, if it brings them closer to the Lord.
Now if it does scare you, like it does many people, and even at times myself also, then you can bow your head, pray, and don't watch what they are doing, worship the Lord yourself. you see it is far better to be caught worshipping Jesus when He looks upon a church, then to see you not worshipping Him, but doubting others. So close your eyes, don't watch the retarded people lol( please don't think i am serious, they are not retarded ) and do not judge others in how they worship. now if they are worshipping and doing things that are contrary to Scriptures, then by all mean stand up and say something to stop such things, such as someone starts to shake, starts yelling, tares off their clothes and grabs a knife and start stabbing people, that is clearly not Godly worship, but if what they are doing does not contradict the Words of God, then let them be, you be concerned with your own worship and let them worship how they feel is best for them to worship, it is enough that you are concerned about your own walk in the Lord. For you can be concerned for everyone, you can love everyone, you can pray for everyone, but if you are not walking the walk, all that is for nothing.
It is better to say you are not a Christian and be found one, then to say you are a Christian and not be found one.
A True Christian does not have to say with their mouth they are a Christian, you will know they are by their actions.
Anyone can say they are a Christian, not everyone can be one.

 

[Jig]

It's so true. I went to see Benny Hinn once at a signs and wonders conference. He called all the pastors up front to be prayed for. He told us ahead of time what was going to happen -- that the power of God was going to knock us down. So all 2000-3000 pastors cramed in down front all the way down the isles and some just stayed in their seats. Before he ever started praying he spoke in very soft, soothing tones. He also rebuked his organist for playing the same song too many times. This whole soft talk thing, with soft music went on for several minutes while he encouraged the pastors to begin to pray. Suddenly, he yelled into the mic. "TAKE IT." Immediately people began falling backwards. I was almost taken out dominoe style. However, I didn't fall. I felt as conspicuous standing there as the three Hebrew children did when the music started and everyone else bowed down to the idol. I thought later how amazing it was that a person could manipulate an entire crowd. But he had two things working in his favor -- 1) expectation, everyone knew that when Benny Hinn prayed for people they fell down. And 2) desire -- people want a manifestation to happen. And when they put their mind into neutral this is the result. I seen this kind of thing over and over again growing up in the Assemblies of God church.

Go Cards!

My goal isn't to offened any chasmatic believers here, but I've seen a few hypnotists do the same thing. It's wierd.

 

[winsome]

It looks as though David and his crew were possessed by evil spirits, or in the least, psycho-socially manipulated...

What Bible translation are you useing there winsome? I suspect this reading will send some of the anti "full gospell" people in a frenzy when they read this translation.

God bless you winsome

The quotes were from the NRSV. I prefer to us the Jerusalem, which uses the word ecstacy, or the NAB which says prophetic state. The NAB is supposed be a very word for word type translation.
But the NRSV was the only version I have loaded onto the computer at the moment, and it was long, and it was late so I couln't face typing it all in from the Jerusalem or NAB. And just chaging those particular words didn't seem quite honest.

It looks as though David and his crew were possessed by evil spirits, or in the least, psycho-socially manipulated...

No it was a band of prophets, presided over by Samuel. I think this is describing a very early charismatic prayer meeting led by Samuel, who would have had nothing to do with evil Spirits. I think its just the language they use. After all this was probably new to them, and the writer probably didn't understand it either.

 

[PujolsisbetterthanBonds]

HisKid1973, until AWC has an experience like we have had, until he allows God to manafest Himself in his life with power, him and all others will always see you and I as being manipulated by others in one way or the other. After all, it's the only logical explanation for the sudden and even instant changes in your life and mine.

Neph, please tell me why you are allowing an experience to dictate truth to you? I'm glad that you received a providential touch from the Lord. I'm delighted that He healed you. But to associate it with being slain in the Spirit is not Biblical but mystical. Could it be that you were just overwhelmed and carried away by your emotions and the Lord had nothing to do with that part of it? Again, please don't be offended. I know where you're coming from. But having been there for years I can tell you that everything I've ever seen could be reduced down from a great spiritual experience to hypersensitive emotionalism.

Now, about those Brewers! You guys just keep getting a little better every year. Did you make any big trades in the off season? How's your team stacking up this year?

Go Cards!

 

[nephilimiyr]

No it was a band of prophets, presided over by Samuel. I think this is describing a very early charismatic prayer meeting led by Samuel, who would have had nothing to do with evil Spirits. I think its just the language they use. After all this was probably new to them, and the writer probably didn't understand it either.

Yes, you're correct, I read the story last night. Actually I was just being sarcastic about the "evil spirits" remark.

Charismatic prayer meeting in Samuel's day? I would agree that God did send the Holy Spirit's annointing upon certain individuals during the old testament days; in other words, before Pentecost, but the filling of the Holy Spirit or the annointing of the Holy Spirit never lasted.

I'm not argueing anything, just questioning. Whenever the Holy Spirit came down upon someone in the old testament it was to fulfill a specific plan and purpose of God's. It was to accomplish something like when Samson slew 1,000 Philistines with the jaw bone of a donkey, it was the power of the Holy Spirit that was upon him that enabled him to accomplish this feat. But after the battle, the annointing left Samson.
As for having a prayer meeting and or worship service and the Holy Spirit filling the men, whether prophets or not, I have to question. I have to ask why? what was the purpose? what was God wanting to happen? I think I'm going to have to go back and read the story again...

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph, please tell me why you are allowing an experience to dictate truth to you? I'm glad that you received a providential touch from the Lord. I'm delighted that He healed you. But to associate it with being slain in the Spirit is not Biblical but mystical. Could it be that you were just overwhelmed and carried away by your emotions and the Lord had nothing to do with that part of it? Again, please don't be offended. I know where you're coming from. But having been there for years I can tell you that everything I've ever seen could be reduced down from a great spiritual experience to hypersensitive emotionalism.

Don't worry about yourself offending me, K. I respect your background in this and do appreciate and respect your thoughts and opinions.

For myself allowing an experience to dictate truth to me are your words, not mine. I believe I had already said that I believe the word of God in the Bible is the number one source for Gods truth. I also believe that it is the Holy Spirit that reveals these truths to me. No one can claim "Jesus is Lord" without the Holy Spirit. I can read the Bible every day and all day long but if the Holy Spirit isn't there with me then I will not understand the spiritual truths that are in every word that is written there.

1 Corinthians 2:9, However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him
2:10, but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
2:11, For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
2:12, We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
2:13, This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

I don't just look towards an religious/spiritual experience to tell me what is truth. I also don't just take the words from the Bible and apply my own human understanding toward them either. I do heavily rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to me. Not always in words with my own human understanding but in spiritual words.

Edit to say: I don't wish to want to defend the actions and the way of worship of all who claim to be Pentecostal and I shouldn't be expected to either. I saw the video in the link provided earlier and have said that that was rather distressing to me, it's what I would characterize as being 'over the top'. Also, I really have no opinion on the "slain in the Spirit" type thing that is in evidence at, like, Benny Hinn crusades. I can only speak about my own experience.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Now, about those Brewers! You guys just keep getting a little better every year. Did you make any big trades in the off season? How's your team stacking up this year?

Go Cards!

LOL, yes, now with the new owner the team is changing things around and I predict, prophesy, that the Brewers willl be the team this year that the Cards will be fighting with for the top spot. I think the Cards will take it again but the Brewers will be right behind them. I'm a big baseball fan myself.

They did trade Overbay to Toronto and we got a qood starting pitcher from them along with a quality outfielder. Otherwise nothing major but the young players on the team such as Ricky Weeks, Prince Fielder, and JJ Hardy will surprise alot of folks I believe. In fact most sports writers are calling for the Brewers to be the surprise team of 2006!

Go Brewers!

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Don't worry about yourself offending me, K. I respect your background in this and do appreciate and respect your thoughts and opinions.

For myself allowing an experience to dictate truth to me are your words, not mine. I believe I had already said that I believe the word of God in the Bible is the number one source for Gods truth. I also believe that it is the Holy Spirit that reveals these truths to me. No one can claim "Jesus is Lord" without the Holy Spirit. I can read the Bible every day and all day long but if the Holy Spirit isn't there with me then I will not understand the spiritual truths that are in every word that is written there.

1 Corinthians 2:9, However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him
2:10, but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
2:11, For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
2:12, We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
2:13, This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

I don't just look towards an religious/spiritual experience to tell me what is truth. I also don't just take the words from the Bible and apply my own human understanding toward them either. I do heavily rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to me. Not always in words with my own human understanding but in spiritual words.

Edit to say: I don't wish to want to defend the actions and the way of worship of all who claim to be Pentecostal and I shouldn't be expected to either. I saw the video in the link provided earlier and have said that that was rather distressing to me, it's what I would characterize as being 'over the top'. Also, I really have no opinion on the "slain in the Spirit" type thing that is in evidence at, like, Benny Hinn crusades. I can only speak about my own experience.

So, the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that "slain in the spirit" is from God?

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

So are you saying that deliverance experience and the victory over inappropriate contentography I have recieved was psycho-socio manipulation?

That is making a false association.

The practice called, "slain in the spirit" is totally different from God delivering you from the bondage of a sin.

There is no connection between the two.

God doesn't have to condition you to make a certain response as is done in "slain in the spirit".

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

HisKid1973, until AWC has an experience like we have had, until he allows God to manafest Himself in his life with power

Pray tell, just how exactly do you know that God has not manifested Himself in my life with power?

Explain how you know that.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Have you ever recieved a healing from the Lord? Are you able to know God as your healer?

Why yes, God healed me of the greatest disease of all, sin.

God performed the greatest miracle of all, He raised a dead spirit that was totally worthy of hell and not worthy of His Grace in the slightest to fullness of Life in Christ Jesus.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

I'm surpised that no-one has quoted the following:
"Then Saul sent messengers to take David. When they saw the company of the prophets in a frenzy, with Samuel standing in charge of£ them, the spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also fell into a prophetic frenzy. When Saul was told, he sent other messengers, and they also fell into a frenzy. Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also fell into a frenzy. Then he himself went to Ramah. He came to the great well that is in Secu; he asked, “Where are Samuel and David?” And someone said, “They are at Naioth in Ramah.” He went there, toward Naioth in Ramah; and the spirit of God came upon him. As he was going, he fell into a prophetic frenzy, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. He too stripped off his clothes, and he too fell into a frenzy before Samuel. He lay naked all that day and all that night. Therefore it is said, “Is Saul also among the prophets?” (1 Sam 19:20-24)
Sounds like an amazing prayer meeting going on.

And
"Then the spirit of the LORD will possess you, and you will be in a prophetic frenzy along with them and be turned into a different person" (1 Sam 10:6)

And
"When they were going from there to Gibeah, a band of prophets met him; and the spirit of God possessed him, and he fell into a prophetic frenzy along with them." (1Sam 10:10)

My usual Bibly asys ecstacy rather than prophetic frenzy which sounds a bit lurid, and more like slain in the Spirit, but as there was a lot of typing I just used a version I had on disc.

Now, demonstrate how that has any resemblance to the phenomena called "slain in the spirit", where someone blows on a crowd of people, or slaps their hand on the top of their head, and they fall backwards, usually into the arms of "catchers".

Help me out here because I see no resemblance between the two at all.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

No-one "feels" God's Spirit. He is Spirit, not emotion. The Christian way of life is based on thinking not feeling.

I cannot agree with this statement. The Holy Spirit is not an emotion, but we do feel or sense the presence of the Holy Spirit, As He bears witness in our hearts.

God Bless
John

Maybe you might want to re-read what I said.

I was talking about "feelings", "emotions", not "feel" in the context of sensing.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

My goal isn't to offened any chasmatic believers here, but I've seen a few hypnotists do the same thing. It's wierd.

Not only hypnotists do it, but I have witnessed pagan rituals where people are worked up into an altered state of consciousness and do the same thing.

 

[PujolsisbetterthanBonds]

Don't worry about yourself offending me, K. I respect your background in this and do appreciate and respect your thoughts and opinions.

For myself allowing an experience to dictate truth to me are your words, not mine. I believe I had already said that I believe the word of God in the Bible is the number one source for Gods truth. I also believe that it is the Holy Spirit that reveals these truths to me. No one can claim "Jesus is Lord" without the Holy Spirit. I can read the Bible every day and all day long but if the Holy Spirit isn't there with me then I will not understand the spiritual truths that are in every word that is written there.

I don't just look towards an religious/spiritual experience to tell me what is truth. I also don't just take the words from the Bible and apply my own human understanding toward them either. I do heavily rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to me. Not always in words with my own human understanding but in spiritual words.

Edit to say: I don't wish to want to defend the actions and the way of worship of all who claim to be Pentecostal and I shouldn't be expected to either. I saw the video in the link provided earlier and have said that that was rather distressing to me, it's what I would characterize as being 'over the top'. Also, I really have no opinion on the "slain in the Spirit" type thing that is in evidence at, like, Benny Hinn crusades. I can only speak about my own experience.

I agree with everything that you have stated here so far. But in the last line of this post you state that you can only speak about your own experience. My question is this -- shouldn't that experience line up with Scripture? Will God give you spiritual experiences that are outside the banks of Scripture? If He does how can anyone ever make a proper judgment on anything? And obviously carried to its furthest extreme (i.e.; the video link that was posted where people are rolling around barking like dogs and howling) people will spin off into all kinds of error. And why? Because they themselves experienced it. I'm sure that if you were to interview any of those folks on the video they would tell you that their experience was as real as your experience. So how could you tell them that it wasn't? If you go by your reasoning, you can't.

Go Cards!