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Is being SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT biblical.......

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by jacquidube, Mar 6, 2006.

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  1. Hey racer -- I appreciate your response. I grew up in the Assemblies of God, went to an A/G college, pastored in an A/G church for 7 years, so I can understand where you're coming from. I left the movement over 5 years ago and now pastor a non-denominational church that is more Calvinistic in it's theology with more of a modern worship approach. It's not really even Bapticostal -- I'm not sure what you would call us??? :scratch:

    The reason I left was due to doctrinal differences. I, like you, believed in many things because a well respected person not only told me they were so but I observed manifestations in them. I just never really questioned my own beliefs enough to go and look at what the other side said about Pentecostal distinctives. However, once I started to study I found myself being pulled by the power of the Holy Spirit to a better understanding of the Scriptures. My quest has taken over 10 years and a loss of many Pentecostal friends. But I finally feel at home in my theology.

    I discovered that many Pentecostals couldn't tell you why they believed in the manifestations of the Spirit -- they just did. They would point to historical references from Acts and Paul's instruction in Corinthians but really couldn't exegete the passages. They were stumped very easily and offended very easily I might add as well at anyone who dared even question their beliefs. My conclusion is that Charismatics tend to validate truth with experience instead of the other way around. The problem with experiences is that if you say that you believe something simply because you or someone you trust experienced it opens the door to anyone who has experienced anything as being true. There is no basis for judgment. It's an all out, anything goes sort of belief system. The wilder it is, the more spiritual people think you must be. I don't say that out of context. I saw firsthand people doing things similar to that which was in the video. So I warn you that you must do more than simply believe because you or someone you know and trust has experienced these things. Truth must be founded on the proper interpretation of the Scriptures.

    P.S. I'm thrilled to hear of another Cardinal's fan. I'm sure if your hubby is anything like me, he's itching for baseball to hurry up and get going. This is our year!

    Go Cards!
     
  2. That's pretty good AWC! What's even better is that some will try and seriously pass these off as being true examples. It seems that so often people who are set on manifestations and signs and the supernatural have to put their mind into neutral in order to experience such things -- which is exactly how such things wind up happening.

    Go Cards!
     
  3. HisKid1973

    HisKid1973 Thank You Jesus For Interceding For Me

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    I don't know what you called what happended to me, but I know for sure it wasn't satan that delievered me from porn.. K
     
  4. I thank God that He delivered you. But was your deliverance accompanied by supernatural manifestations?

    Go Cards!
     
  5. HisKid1973

    HisKid1973 Thank You Jesus For Interceding For Me

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    It was supernatural for ME...I could have never done it on my own..K
     
  6. sawdust

    sawdust redeemed waste

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    No-one "feels" God's Spirit. He is Spirit, not emotion. The Christian way of life is based on thinking not feeling.

    Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Rm.12:2

    It is what you think and how you apply the truth of God that establishes Christ's life within you. (experientially)

    For as he thinks within himself, so he is. Prov.23:7a

    What we may or may not feel is a response to our thinking not the work of the Holy Spirit. And what we think might induce "good feelings" but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth. An entertainer on stage can feel good while he is entertaining but that feeling may well be a derivative of his own pride and sense of self importance.

    Some believers seek only to be entertained. Truth evades them because what they feel is more important to them.

    The Corinthians had a real problem with this hence the two letters Paul wrote. When the Church was first formed, the Lord worked in great signs and wonders in order to confirm the message that was being spoken by His apostles. This is much the same way He worked in the formation of the nation of Israel.

    Seas parted, manna fell from heaven, fortifications fell down miraculously. But once the word was written down these miracles waned.

    So it was with the early Church. The Corinthian believers got sidetracked in their spiritual growth by emphasising the wrong things, ie signs and wonders. They remained as babies until Paul threatened to "haul them over the coals". (so to speak)

    For they say, "His letters are weighty and strong, but his personal presence is unimpressive and his speech contemptible." 2Cor.10:10

    What is the greatest commandment? Is it not to love the Lord with all our heart? How will you do this if you do not know Him?

    The Corinthian believers were too impressed with how the signs and wonders made them "feel" to bother about learning who God is.

    It is no different today with certain "teachings". It is effectively little more than "come and feel good before the Lord". It does nothing to make one grow spiritually.

    So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, " If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." Jn.8:31&32

    The Word is Truth. Only knowledge of the word will result in true worshippers who worship in spirit and truth.

    We have the truth in written form. We need teachers who can teach it not signs to show us the way. Signs & wonders are for babies who cannot think and need to be shown visibly.

    It isn't uncommon for the Lord, when we first become Christians, to do something that falls into the area of signs and wonders ie a physical healing, but He does not want us remaining the rest of our Christian life in childhood. He wants us to grow up and learn to think as He thinks.

    If you want to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ? Move on past them and let those who want to fill their stomachs with "feel good" emotion remain where they are. Find a real teacher of God and learn the word.

    peace
     
  7. Jig

    Jig You know what?

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    In the provided scriptural support in this thread, none involve human hands actually touching the individual before falling.

    I don't doubt that the extreme presence of God can and will be so overpowering that we would either fall in fear, fall in worship, faint, or even be drained of all strength and just collapse. I just don't see it as a clear sign that one is Spirit-filled or a common event that takes place to those that are Spirit-filled.

    When Saul falls on his way to Damascus, he is not saved yet, nor are the men around him who fall as well. He is not filled with the Spirit at that moment either. It is only an example of the effects of the granduer of God.

    Those I see that practice being "slain in the Spirit" are always touched/pushed before being "slain" or falling down. NONE of the scriptures back this process up, nor does any of it provide enough evidence (along with ALL scripture) that this (being slain) is a common occurance and that it should be even practiced within a congregation regularly.

    The Gentiles in Caesarea who got filled with the Spirit didn't fall down. Getting filled with the Spirit doesn't involve falling. Nor does "laying of hands" have any scriptural support for "slaying in the Spirit".

    I'm not syaing that "laying of hands" isn't scriptural, because it is...I just don't see how it became intergrated with the falling of being "slain in the Spirit".
     
  8. racer

    racer Contributor

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    PbtB,

    Thank you for the input. However, like I said I am a skeptic. But, I don't rule out anything where God is concerned. Anything, is possible. The people that I speak of, actually, there's only two, are not people led by emotion or flights-of-fancy. They are very sensisble and grounded people.


    Well, for now he has NASCAR to keep him occupied. But, he will be happy when baseball starts back up.

    God bless!

    Lisa
     
  9. It's true that with God all things are possible. However, will God do something that's not outlined in His Word? How would we ever be able to judge anything? The Word of God has to be the standard. If it's not found there you better not believe it -- no matter who tells it to you. I remind you of the Bereans who searched the Scriptures after PAUL preached to them to see whether or not he was telling them the truth. I highly respected my Pentecostal Pastors, but that didn't mean they were right. Someone can truly be sincere in their beliefs but they can also be sincerely wrong. Be careful. Judge all things. What kind of church are you attending now?

    Go Cards!
     
  10. racer

    racer Contributor

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    I attend Assembly of God.
     
  11. Augustine_Was_Calvinist

    Augustine_Was_Calvinist New Member

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    In every example in Scripture, where people fall backwards under the power of God, they are enemies of God.

    In every example in Scripture when believers come under the power of God, they fall forwards, prostrate, every single one.

    What this "slain in the spirit" stuff is, is psycho-socio manipulation.

    A good stage hypnotists can do the same thing with ease.
     
    Entertaining_Angels likes this.
  12. It's so true. I went to see Benny Hinn once at a signs and wonders conference. He called all the pastors up front to be prayed for. He told us ahead of time what was going to happen -- that the power of God was going to knock us down. So all 2000-3000 pastors cramed in down front all the way down the isles and some just stayed in their seats. Before he ever started praying he spoke in very soft, soothing tones. He also rebuked his organist for playing the same song too many times. This whole soft talk thing, with soft music went on for several minutes while he encouraged the pastors to begin to pray. Suddenly, he yelled into the mic. "TAKE IT." Immediately people began falling backwards. I was almost taken out dominoe style. However, I didn't fall. I felt as conspicuous standing there as the three Hebrew children did when the music started and everyone else bowed down to the idol. I thought later how amazing it was that a person could manipulate an entire crowd. But he had two things working in his favor -- 1) expectation, everyone knew that when Benny Hinn prayed for people they fell down. And 2) desire -- people want a manifestation to happen. And when they put their mind into neutral this is the result. I seen this kind of thing over and over again growing up in the Assemblies of God church.

    Go Cards!
     
  13. greeker57married

    greeker57married Regular Member

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    Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken wherein they were gathered together; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

    Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:

    Clearly the Holy Spirit bears witness with our Spirit.

    I beg to differ, but we do sense the presence of the Holy spirit. We are to be led by the Spirit.

    Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

    God Bless
    John

    P.S. I am not charismatic but Southern Baptist.
     
  14. Augustine_Was_Calvinist

    Augustine_Was_Calvinist New Member

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    "sawdust" was not denying the witness of the Holy Spirit to our spirit at all.

    The point "sawdust" is making is that we are not to rely on "feelings", for "feelings" are highly unreliable and change often, and getting carried away in highly emotional states that leave one in a suggestable state, ready to fall for all kinds of abberant teachings and practices.
     
  15. Augustine_Was_Calvinist

    Augustine_Was_Calvinist New Member

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    Yep, that is called, psycho-sociological manipulation.

    Advertisers do it all the time, as most do in marketing. The suspects have to be conditioned for a desired response. The stage is set with conditions that set a desired mood and tone that is conducive for putting the mind in a suggestable state. Benny Hinn is good at it, but I've seen hypnotists and even top salespeople who are much better.
     
  16. winsome

    winsome English, not British

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    I'm surpised that no-one has quoted the following:
    "Then Saul sent messengers to take David. When they saw the company of the prophets in a frenzy, with Samuel standing in charge of£ them, the spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also fell into a prophetic frenzy. When Saul was told, he sent other messengers, and they also fell into a frenzy. Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also fell into a frenzy. Then he himself went to Ramah. He came to the great well that is in Secu; he asked, “Where are Samuel and David?” And someone said, “They are at Naioth in Ramah.” He went there, toward Naioth in Ramah; and the spirit of God came upon him. As he was going, he fell into a prophetic frenzy, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. He too stripped off his clothes, and he too fell into a frenzy before Samuel. He lay naked all that day and all that night. Therefore it is said, “Is Saul also among the prophets?” (1 Sam 19:20-24)
    Sounds like an amazing prayer meeting going on.

    And
    "Then the spirit of the LORD will possess you, and you will be in a prophetic frenzy along with them and be turned into a different person" (1 Sam 10:6)

    And
    "When they were going from there to Gibeah, a band of prophets met him; and the spirit of God possessed him, and he fell into a prophetic frenzy along with them." (1Sam 10:10)

    My usual Bibly asys ecstacy rather than prophetic frenzy which sounds a bit lurid, and more like slain in the Spirit, but as there was a lot of typing I just used a version I had on disc.
     
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  17. HisKid1973

    HisKid1973 Thank You Jesus For Interceding For Me

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  18. nephilimiyr

    nephilimiyr I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open

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    HisKid1973, until AWC has an experience like we have had, until he allows God to manafest Himself in his life with power, him and all others will always see you and I as being manipulated by others in one way or the other. After all, it's the only logical explanation for the sudden and even instant changes in your life and mine.
     
  19. nephilimiyr

    nephilimiyr I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open

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    It looks as though David and his crew were possessed by evil spirits, or in the least, psycho-socially manipulated...:scratch:

    What Bible translation are you useing there winsome? I suspect this reading will send some of the anti "full gospell" people in a frenzy when they read this translation. :)

    God bless you winsome
     
  20. Augustine_Was_Calvinist

    Augustine_Was_Calvinist New Member

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    LOL, is that what I said?

    Is it? Show me where I said that.

    What was the context of my statement?

    Context is real important, if you do not get the context then you will read all kinds of things that are not said.
     
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