Is baptism necessary for salvation?

[greatdivide46]

Jesus also appeared to the 10 disciples, minus Thomas and gave them an infilling of the Holy Spirit then, where was the speaking in tongues? (cf. John 20:21-22)

So it is possible for a person to have the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues.

As a matter of fact, the recording of actual speaking in tongues is only mentioned three times in Acts. (Acts 2, 10, 19)

And the Apostle Paul is plain to point out that not everybody will be given this.

Amen. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[greatdivide46]

The fact is, the Greek text proves you wrong.

Wrong about what?

The fact is, Peter and the others had already received an infilling proior to Pentecost.

Fact is, nowhere can one show from scriptures that any of the disciples prior to Pentecost were baptized.

You could argue that some were baptized while serving under John the Baptists ministry as Andrew was a disciple of John the Baptist, however, Paul ran across disciples of John's baptism and re-baptized them.

But nowhere in scripture does t record that the disciples were baptized.

Quite right. I couldn't agree more.

So your argument does not hold water.

What argument is that?

So show me in scriptures where all the "Christians" in the primative churches at Corinth, Colossae, Phillpi, Galatia, Ephesus, Thessolinica, etc., spoke in tongues as evidence of being infilled with the Holy Spirit.

I don't believe that's possible. First of all I don't think it happened and second of all I don't believe speaking in tongues is evidence of being infilled with the Holy Spirit. As I said before I don't believe there's a necessary connection between speaking and tongues and receiving the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit it one's life.

 

[a pilgrim]

. Originally Posted by DeaconDean

The fact is, the Greek text proves you wrong.
​

Wrong about what?

[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

". . . have received. . . " past tense. They already had him. Simple English grammar.


ἔλαβον, elabon, Greek Grammar - verb, aorist indicative active, 3rd person plural

to take, receive

A prolonged form of a primary verb, which is use only as an alternate in certain tenses; to take (in very many applications, literally and figuratively (properly objective or active, to get hold of; whereas dechomai is rather subjective or passive, to have offered to one; while haireomai is more violent, to seize or remove)) -- accept, + be amazed, assay, attain, bring, X when I call, catch, come on (X unto), + forget, have, hold, obtain, receive (X after), take (away, up).

They had already gotten hold of the Holy Ghost. He wasn't just hanging around, he was in them in a way that was the same as the Apostles and they could not deny baptism because they had the indwelling Spirit of God.

BUT, argue on. One thing I have noticed, when someone is indoctrinated in sectarian groups, over issues like the sabbath, baptism, etc., it matters not what the text says, English and Greek, dogma ALWAYS take precedence over scriptural truth, (in their eyes.)



end

 

[greatdivide46]

BUT, argue on. One thing I have noticed, when someone is indoctrinated in sectarian groups, over issues like the sabbath, baptism, etc., it matters not what the text says, English and Greek, dogma ALWAYS take precedence over scriptural truth, (in their eyes.)

I will argue on. And just so you know I used to believe exactly what you believe. But as I studied the Bible for myself and ceased relying without question on what my teachers told me I found I had been indoctrinated in a sectarian group. I now believe that I see much more clearly what the Bible teaches regarding the meaning and purpose of baptism as well as many other tenets of our faith.

 

[mikedsjr]

Was the thief on the cross baptized?

Jesus had not died and risen from the grave yet.

 

[mikedsjr]

While I believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, I do not believe that baptism saves anyone. Only God can do that and I don't see why some people refuse to believe that God can save us at our baptisms. That seems to me to be what the Bible teaches. When God's Word says that we should be baptized for the forgiveness of our sins that doesn't mean that baptism forgives our sins -- it means that God forgives us when we are baptized.

As for the thief on the cross -- it is my belief that since Christian baptism was not even instituted until after the resurrection of Christ he (the thief) couldn't have been a candidate for baptism. Therefore, baptism was not a necessity for him.

Didn't realized this was answered.

 

[Goodbook]

Baptism is a good thing, dont forbid it. All christians ought to be baptized and receive the holy spirit. If you havent, dont delay.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Baptism is indeed important and commanded by God, and all Christians should be baptized.

I consider baptism a work. We are saved through faith in Christ alone. Works are the result of salvation and genuine repentence, and baptism is one of those works. We keep God's commands because we love Him, not as a way to earn our salvation. There are two baptism: The first is by the Holy Spirit which saves and precedes water baptism, and the second is water baptism that is public profession.

 

[Goodbook]

sometimes both can happen at the same time. But they are considered ONE baptism, into Jesus Christ. The inner part and the outer part that is washing away sin. That is why baptists stick to full immersion. Because its not just washing the outside, on the surface like the Pharisees did that were whitewashed tombs but were rotten inside.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread had a small clean up of posts debating against the Baptist Statement of Purpose.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed. The site rules include this:

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Members who do not truly share the core beliefs and teachings of a specific congregational forum may post in fellowship or ask questions, but they may not teach or debate within the forum. There are forums reserved for Christian members only. Please do not post in these forums unless you are truly a Christian (please see our Statement of Faith to know exactly what that is). If you wish to discuss unorthodox Christian theology, you may do so in the Controversial Theology forum.

The Baptist position is this:
The Believers Baptism (credo baptism) - We believe that baptism should be by immersion and that it is an outward symbol of of an inward change that has already occurred.