Is anyone here United Pentecostal?

[RodofMoses]

Keep us informed of your progress investigating the UPC ... sounds interesting ... I only have three churches in my small town, but I like to know what the real world is like besides my small town.

as for feeling good, be careful about what you feel. If the devil couldn't deceive you he wouldn't try now would he?

I've been to lots of feel good churches that have now gone down the drain, but that is another subject.

Someone should start a thread on the suffering church.

I assure you, I'm very familiar with suffering and the fact that most the church isn't suffering at all and also that without suffering and persecution we cannot truly walk as Jesus walked in intimate relationship.

I did not say anything about "feeling good". I said that I sense the presence of God. I'm a mature & seasoned Christian who has walked through the fires of trials & suffering. I know God's presence when I sense it. It has nothing to do with "feeling good".

 

[ToBeLoved]

I assure you, I'm very familiar with suffering and the fact that most the church isn't suffering at all and also that without suffering and persecution we cannot truly walk as Jesus walked in intimate relationship.

I did not say anything about "feeling good". I said that I sense the presence of God. I'm a mature & seasoned Christian who has walked through the fires of trials & suffering. I know God's presence when I sense it. It has nothing to do with "feeling good".

So, you can sense the presence of God in any church? Whether He is there or not?

How does that happen and what are the differences.

 

[Newbie82]

As to feeling the presence of God in a church service, Jesus taught that where two or three are gathered together in his name, he would be in the midst of them. THAT is why it happens. It has nothing to do with God placing his seal of approval on a church or their teachings.

Concerning the one person having TV in their home, that has always been a difficulty in their churches, even though their Articles of Faith clearly speak against watching it. Their licensed ministers used to be prohibited from having one in their home. (They even asked this question on the minister application.) Now ministers are allowed to have one, but they still are not supposed to be watching most of the programming on it.

 

[RodofMoses]

As to feeling the presence of God in a church service, Jesus taught that where two or three are gathered together in his name, he would be in the midst of them. THAT is why it happens. It has nothing to do with God placing his seal of approval on a church or their teachings.

Thanks for this reminder. Yes what you've said above is definitely true to a great extent.
I'm not sure what the Lord is up to, but He's recently been telling me "do not conform" to the expectations & man-made doctrines of the 3 churches I've been attending.
We are not here to please man. We're here to please God.

Concerning the one person having TV in their home, that has always been a difficulty in their churches, even though their Articles of Faith clearly speak against watching it. Their licensed ministers used to be prohibited from having one in their home. (They even asked this question on the minister application.) Now ministers are allowed to have one, but they still are not supposed to be watching most of the programming on it.

I find this whole TV business about not watching or being permitted to watch a good deal silly. I gather you already know this but it is not TV that's evil. What can be evil is how it's used however. TV is a medium and can be used for good & Godly purposes too, but it's certainly true that the majority of stuff on TV is garbage. I don't watch it at all mostly. Computers [which apparently they allow] are also mediums.

I was over at one of the UPC member's homes today having tea, sharing my testimony and teaching her how to use her computer. I wore pants and make up as usual. I didn't ask her any questions about the UPC but would like to in the future.

I very much like their standard of holiness , but I don't agree that Christian women have to wear no make up and dresses.. and I don't agree with their stance on TV or thinking other Christians aren't saved if they don't speak in tongues or if they don't see the Holy Spirit in the same fashion they do. I find fault with those doctrines. BUT out of all 3 of the churches I've been attending, it is the UPC where the Spirit of the Living God is hosted the strongest (for whatever reason and there are many different reasons including the explanation you gave for His presence). One of those reasons may be the fact that they have a much longer period of worship than the other churches (God inhabits the praises of His people).

I'd like to make it clear that I am not upset or critical of any of the churches I've been attending, I'm earnestly evaluating what's going on in them and I'd like to understand more about the UPC because that is the church I sense the Spirit of God in the most heavily.

Note to readers:
I welcome the educated and unbiased comments of readers who wish to participate, but rude people will be ignored and blocked.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man - 1 Cor 2:15

 

[Biblicist]

A few months back my wife and I visited a Vinyard fellowship in the outer Eastern suburbs of Melbourne here in Australia. We sat in the back row so that we could observe what was happening within the meeting, where we could not help but notice that the young couple who were sitting in front of us with a baby were regularly showing half of their backsides when they lent over to assist their child. Then we had another male a few rows to our front and side whose clothing (or lack of) created the same visual pollution.

This form of visual assault would have been a rarity a few years back where probably a couple of decades back it would probably never have occurred. As for standards, well I'm not all that sure that these regular members knew anything of substance about dress standards and decorum.

 

[RodofMoses]

A few months back my wife and I visited a Vinyard fellowship in the outer Eastern suburbs of Melbourne here in Australia. We sat in the back row so that we could observe what was happening within the meeting, where we could not help but notice that the young couple who were sitting in front of us with a baby were regularly showing half of their backsides when they lent over to assist their child. Then we had another male a few rows to our front and side whose clothing (or lack of) created the same visual pollution.

This form of visual assault would have been a rarity a few years back where probably a couple of decades back it would probably never have occurred. As for standards, well I'm not all that sure that these regular members knew anything of substance about dress standards and decorum.

lol, I suppose that wouldn't be the most pleasant of experiences when attempting to worship, although when Holy Spirit is involved there is not much of anything that can deter me from entering in.

 

[RodofMoses]

I went to visit the tea-lady from the UPC today again and while we were sitting in her living room talking about the Lord and sharing testimonies, the tangible anointing came down on me. I have no idea if she sensed it but I did. It continued to get stronger after I left. So again, I don't know what the Lord is up to but it sure is interesting.

 

[ToBeLoved]

As to feeling the presence of God in a church service, Jesus taught that where two or three are gathered together in his name, he would be in the midst of them. THAT is why it happens. It has nothing to do with God placing his seal of approval on a church or their teachings.

Concerning the one person having TV in their home, that has always been a difficulty in their churches, even though their Articles of Faith clearly speak against watching it. Their licensed ministers used to be prohibited from having one in their home. (They even asked this question on the minister application.) Now ministers are allowed to have one, but they still are not supposed to be watching most of the programming on it.

Exactly, which is why I asked the question above.

 

[ToBeLoved]

A few months back my wife and I visited a Vinyard fellowship in the outer Eastern suburbs of Melbourne here in Australia. We sat in the back row so that we could observe what was happening within the meeting, where we could not help but notice that the young couple who were sitting in front of us with a baby were regularly showing half of their backsides when they lent over to assist their child. Then we had another male a few rows to our front and side whose clothing (or lack of) created the same visual pollution.

This form of visual assault would have been a rarity a few years back where probably a couple of decades back it would probably never have occurred. As for standards, well I'm not all that sure that these regular members knew anything of substance about dress standards and decorum.

My sister is a visual assault to the senses each time I see her. She is clueless to it or so far gone she doesn't care.

My plight is how to correct in a loving way that still remains peaceable? Especially when the topic is dress.

One would think it would be easy, but people don't take things well that don't agree with them.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I went to a United Pentecostal church last week and notice the women have long hair, no make up and all wear dresses.

I'd heard that the UPC doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit but they were singing "COME HOLY SPIRIT" and other songs about the Holy Spirit.

while I was there I felt the presence of God strongly.

I've heard some people call the UPC a cult and say they don't believe in the Holy Spirit, but if that was true the presence of God would not be there.

I don't know much about them. Do they watch tv?

Are there any UPC people here? - I can't find a list of what they believe online anywhere.

I can not say this unequivocally as a for sure, but my understanding is that they are 'Jesus Only' in that they believe Jesus is all three, so sometimes Jesus is the Father and sometimes Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Several of my close family members are UPC so I am pretty familiar and have even studied UPC for quite a while to get a solid foundation of what they believe so I could deal with them telling me "I'm going to hell" at family functions because I have been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which to them is NOT a valid baptism.

From what I've seen with the Holy Spirit, they more command Him like He is an afterthought or someone who gives them some sort of spiritual power. Like a resource in their spiritual arsenal. As if that is not the most crazy of all theology in the world. And somehow they can convince themselves that is a very Biblical stance, which I find very odd since baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is all over the Bible and cannot be avoided.

I personally would tell all of you to stay away from them. I am not going to judge them as Jesus is the only perfect, just and righteous judge, but they are way out there. I see no good that can become of it, except for them to bring us down. They do think we are going to hell which is why they don't commune with other Christians but stay within their 'own flock of sheep' as one would say.

I don't believe that they have anything to offer us. And when they speak, make sure you check all Bible verses yourself for context and meaning [staff edit].

I again would say stay away. They have no problem if they are honest telling you you are going to hell and your relationship with God is not valid and that is the MOST DANGEROUS type of Christian out there.

Real quick, since I am on my way out, the clothing thing is modesty or so they say. They do not cut their hair, nor wear makeup or jewelry also because of a few verses (that I forget what they are) in their arsenal.

 

[jiminpa]

Thanks for this reminder. Yes what you've said above is definitely true to a great extent.
I'm not sure what the Lord is up to, but He's recently been telling me "do not conform" to the expectations & man-made doctrines of the 3 churches I've been attending.
We are not here to please man. We're here to please God.

I find this whole TV business about not watching or being permitted to watch a good deal silly. I gather you already know this but it is not TV that's evil. What can be evil is how it's used however. TV is a medium and can be used for good & Godly purposes too, but it's certainly true that the majority of stuff on TV is garbage. I don't watch it at all mostly. Computers [which apparently they allow] are also mediums.

I was over at one of the UPC member's homes today having tea, sharing my testimony and teaching her how to use her computer. I wore pants and make up as usual. I didn't ask her any questions about the UPC but would like to in the future.

I very much like their standard of holiness , but I don't agree that Christian women have to wear no make up and dresses.. and I don't agree with their stance on TV or thinking other Christians aren't saved if they don't speak in tongues or if they don't see the Holy Spirit in the same fashion they do. I find fault with those doctrines. BUT out of all 3 of the churches I've been attending, it is the UPC where the Spirit of the Living God is hosted the strongest (for whatever reason and there are many different reasons including the explanation you gave for His presence). One of those reasons may be the fact that they have a much longer period of worship than the other churches (God inhabits the praises of His people).

I'd like to make it clear that I am not upset or critical of any of the churches I've been attending, I'm earnestly evaluating what's going on in them and I'd like to understand more about the UPC because that is the church I sense the Spirit of God in the most heavily.

Note to readers:
I welcome the educated and unbiased comments of readers who wish to participate, but rude people will be ignored and blocked.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man - 1 Cor 2:15

I find their focus on non-sin "sins" to actually incite true disobedience. Like the things God calls sin is inadaquate and He needs our assistance to understand real holiness.

In the name of the "holiness" defined by penticostal holiness I hardened my heart to God and His call. I literally presumed to tell God what He could and could not call good. Let me help you out, that is sin, grave sin.

God's definition of holiness is not inadequate, no matter what any denomination claims.

 

[RodofMoses]

I find their focus on non-sin "sins" to actually incite true disobedience. Like the things God calls sin is inadaquate and He needs our assistance to understand real holiness.

In the name of the "holiness" defined by penticostal holiness I hardened my heart to God and His call. I literally presumed to tell God what He could and could not call good. Let me help you out, that is sin, grave sin.

God's definition of holiness is not inadequate, no matter what any denomination claims.

Yes I agree with a lot of this comment. I'd add also that it's not only the United P church that presumes to know what things are sinful however. I find that most churches focus on the outward behaviour and speak very little about the sins of the heart. Another thing is that while ALL Christian churches frown on drinking and those sorts of more outward sins, I've never heard a sermon on lust & gluttony. Since there are a lot of overweight people in the church, and not all have thyroid problems, there is assuredly a problem with Christians stuffing their faces with external food and gluttony that way, but also gluttony when it comes to what Christians "have" and "hoard". There are a lot of "sins" that aren't being "controlled" per say and I wonder why there's not more balance in that regard?

 

[RodofMoses]

Actually they do believe in the Holy Spirit, they just believe He is God, a manifestion / power / emanation of the ONE true God.

Hmm again they do believe in the HS but to some they can be considered a cult because they do shun those who do not agree with everything they teach, you may not see this right away but you will if they don't indoctrinate you first.

I've been wondering about this. - At what point will I be shunned? So far they are all very friendly towards me. I don't attend church to socialise however, I attend to worship in the congregation. So I don't get too personal with them. I'm hoping they will just consider me as a "visitor" for as long as I go there. The worship is incredible. I also go to the AOG church in the mornings and their worship is also incredible. The Spirit of God comes on me in an amazing way at both these churches during worship. If it were up to me there would be a worship service every single night of the week. I LOVE to worship.

Last night there was a guest speaker at the UPC church. He was talking about how he is a missionary and that he's going to be going to a convention overseas that has "50 trinitarian pastors" at it and he was talking about how glorious it is. I found his reference to "TRINITARIAN pastors" interesting. I was very surprised to hear him say that because I've been told they don't agree with trinitarians. I have not asked any of the members about the UPC beliefs because I'm nervous about being condemned. I'm not interested in membership anyway, I just want to worship the Lord.

If you have any insight into any of this I'd love to hear from you considering you have some experience with them. Also, do they believe in prophecy and the prophetic word? I never hear a message in tongues or interpretation, I never hear prophecy come forth. The people I see there are mostly older women and they are very quiet.

I was told that I was not saved because I did get baptized in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost, I also speak in tongues etc and they said that was impossible because you can only truly be saved / receive the Holy Spirit if you get baptized in Jesus name only!

How do they explain the thief on the cross going to heaven? He wasn't baptised at all!

See I am not accepted in Trinitarian Churches I am deemed a heretic because the Trinity sounds fishy to me, something just don't seem right about it, yet I am shunned from joining a upci church because I do not agree that baptizing in Jesus name is the only true baptismal, I honestly think both Acts and Matthew are VALID. So please be wary joining any church that makes such claims that they are the only true church!

I'm really not interested in joining any church. Membership is not biblical. I just want to worship God.

Also the reason why they all have long hair and dresses is because they adhere to a Holiness standard, I must admit I myself adhere to that same standard because it's biblical... so that part is not a cult necessarily, what makes them cult like is the way they shun anyone different... You will see what I mean if you keep going there.

so far they've all been very nice. I've been attending for about 5 weeks now. I almost always wear make up and pants. No one appears to judge me, but I don't know what they're thinking either so who knows.

If you have any more questions please ask me!

Thank you, I appreciate you answering my inquiries.

 

[RodofMoses]

ohh. I also wanted to add that the speaker who was giving the message at the UPC church gave an alter call during which the members all went forward (I did not go forward). As I was worshipping in my seat however, the speaker walked down the isle and came to me in my seat and said "God is with you sister!" and prayed for me right there. I found this also to be odd. Why would a UPC minister approach someone wearing makeup and pants and tell them that God is obviously with me? Wouldn't that go against their belief system?
I'm quite confused about what people say about the UPC and what I've experienced so far being very different. I keep waiting for the shoe to drop and for them to shun me.

 

[Newbie82]

I've been wondering about this. - At what point will I be shunned? So far they are all very friendly towards me.

Allow me to respond as the person you asked hasn't been back here in awhile. I have had much experience in the UPC (I am no longer).

I don't know that you will be shunned unless they attempt to push you to accept their teachings and you refuse- or if you should start speaking with members about any of their errors. You are not a member and haven't been going to all their services and right now are most likely viewed as someone "looking their way" and a possible future convert.

Last night there was a guest speaker at the UPC church. He was talking about how he is a missionary and that he's going to be going to a convention overseas that has "50 trinitarian pastors" at it and he was talking about how glorious it is. I found his reference to "TRINITARIAN pastors" interesting. I was very surprised to hear him say that because I've been told they don't agree with trinitarians.

Their doctrine vehemently opposes Trinitarian beliefs and many there consider them to be of pagan origin. There can be more than one reason for meeting with Trinitarians: 1) Hoping to witness to and convert some of them, even entire churches. 2) They do seek acceptance as much of the Christian world considers them to be heretical due to their Oneness teachings/denial of the Trinity.

Also, do they believe in prophecy and the prophetic word? I never hear a message in tongues or interpretation, I never hear prophecy come forth. The people I see there are mostly older women and they are very quiet.

They believe in the gifts of the Spirit as listed in 1 Cor 12. All the ones I have been in have not become involved in prophecy such as seen in WoF type churches. In my former church, we periodically had t&i and I heard it in other of our churches and in larger group gatherings such as camp.

How do they explain the thief on the cross going to heaven? He wasn't baptised at all!

They would say that was before Pentecost and the death and resurrection of Jesus. People were not water baptized in the name of Jesus prior to then, nor was the Holy Spirit given prior. They do not see the thief as being a problem with their teaching.

I'm really not interested in joining any church. Membership is not biblical.

I agree that it is not biblical.

so far they've all been very nice. I've been attending for about 5 weeks now. I almost always wear make up and pants. No one appears to judge me, but I don't know what they're thinking either so who knows.

You are new and a guest and not a member. You are a possible future convert. They are most likely not going to get on you about those things at this juncture.

As I was worshipping in my seat however, the speaker walked down the isle and came to me in my seat and said "God is with you sister!" and prayed for me right there. I found this also to be odd. Why would a UPC minister approach someone wearing makeup and pants and tell them that God is obviously with me? Wouldn't that go against their belief system?

Not at all. You were there in their service. They would view this as God trying to draw you into more truth. So, God was with you, trying to get you to see, accept and follow their beliefs (in their mind). This happens all the time with visitors.

You most likely will not see some of the things that those of us who have been part of them have seen. You are on the outside looking in. It is no secret what they believe. The website I previously shared with you has dozens and dozens of links to their own writings where you may see for yourself if you are not inclined to believe former members.

 

[Newbie82]

I find their focus on non-sin "sins" to actually incite true disobedience. Like the things God calls sin is inadaquate and He needs our assistance to understand real holiness.

In the name of the "holiness" defined by penticostal holiness I hardened my heart to God and His call. I literally presumed to tell God what He could and could not call good. Let me help you out, that is sin, grave sin.

God's definition of holiness is not inadequate, no matter what any denomination claims.

This is exactly what the Pharisees did- God's laws were not enough and so they added rules and more rules to 'help' keep people from breaking God's. They went so far as to add a ridiculous number of rules to keeping the Sabbath. Jesus said they made the word of God of none effect through their traditions.

For years now the UPC has been pushing the notion of Apostolic Identity, which includes their outward distinctives. It isn't about a Christian identity or being identified with Christ, but rather the need to hold onto and follow the Apostolic Identity. The leader of the group has been pushing this since before he took over.

RodofMoses:

Another thing is that while ALL Christian churches frown on drinking and those sorts of more outward sins, I've never heard a sermon on lust & gluttony. Since there are a lot of overweight people in the church, and not all have thyroid problems, there is assuredly a problem with Christians stuffing their faces with external food and gluttony that way

It is hard to get up and cheer, jump up and down, and hoot and holler over the topic of gluttony, so you do not hear it preached much. On the contrary, with the Apostolic distinctives, you can get all excited because they set them apart from others. Keep in mind that many of their rules help to cause the weight problem as there are so many things one is not supposed to do or that are not as easily done in a skirt/dress. But they CAN all go out after services to eat..... It isn't always a matter of overeating but not getting enough exercise to go along with what is ingested.

 

[RodofMoses]

This is exactly what the Pharisees did- God's laws were not enough and so they added rules and more rules to 'help' keep people from breaking God's. They went so far as to add a ridiculous number of rules to keeping the Sabbath. Jesus said they made the word of God of none effect through their traditions.

For years now the UPC has been pushing the notion of Apostolic Identity, which includes their outward distinctives. It isn't about a Christian identity or being identified with Christ, but rather the need to hold onto and follow the Apostolic Identity. The leader of the group has been pushing this since before he took over.

RodofMoses:
It is hard to get up and cheer, jump up and down, and hoot and holler over the topic of gluttony, so you do not hear it preached much. On the contrary, with the Apostolic distinctives, you can get all excited because they set them apart from others. Keep in mind that many of their rules help to cause the weight problem as there are so many things one is not supposed to do or that are not as easily done in a skirt/dress. But they CAN all go out after services to eat..... It isn't always a matter of overeating but not getting enough exercise to go along with what is ingested.

hey thank you for your posts and info, I really appreciate your help. I also appreciate that you dont sound bitter about the church. How long were you with them and what happened to cause you to leave (if you don't mind me asking).?

It is funny, I've met now with one of the UPC ladies twice and each time I have felt a check in my spirit to not ask any questions about their doctrine. i'm so glad I didn't since I definitely would have spoken my piece about their rules. So I wonder what the Lord is up to? Two weeks ago He told me to "tarry". So I'm just going to keep attending. I try not to get personal with them, I don't really like being rejected, but since the Lord has told me to "not conform" (to any church) and to just keep worshipping I guess that's what I'll do but I'm going to have to bite my tongue to not ask them direct questions. The worship there is wonderful, I must say, but that doesn't make their doctrine correct - I don't know of any church that has them all correct. I get barely any witness of the Spirit during their messages, but wow the worship is outrageously wonderful and the Spirit at times is so thick I have a hard time standing straight. Last Sunday I had this experience at the AOG church and at the UPC church in the evening, so obviously it's about WORSHIP not about churches. Always stuck in the back of my mind is the Lord's forewarning that great opposition is coming.
I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me - Acts 20:23

 

[ToBeLoved]

Last night there was a guest speaker at the UPC church. He was talking about how he is a missionary and that he's going to be going to a convention overseas that has "50 trinitarian pastors" at it and he was talking about how glorious it is. I found his reference to "TRINITARIAN pastors" interesting. I was very surprised to hear him say that because I've been told they don't agree with trinitarians. I have not asked any of the members about the UPC beliefs because I'm nervous about being condemned. I'm not interested in membership anyway, I just want to worship the Lord.

I think you should figure out your beliefs ahead of time because the Trinitarian church is very strong Biblically.

To not be a Trinitarian when the Bible speaks so much about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, even baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Don't take this wrong, but you need to seek the truth of whether the Trinity is true and supported in the Bible, which it is and then make a choice. I'm not sure that going back and forth between the Trinitarian AOG and the UPC makes sense as far as your belief, which I think you need to research and understand and then move forward from there.

You might want to visit the UPC website to familiarize yourself with their actual beliefs more, because I don't know that you'll get a straight answer from them because being a non-Trinitarian is very close to being considered a cult. And many consider the UPC a cult or very close to a cult.

I do not want to see you walk into error. God is more important than the worship at any church.

Kind of dangerous theologically. And they will (UPC) try to convince you their few verses pulled out of context are Biblical, but they don't hold water when one has studied, so I recommend you study for yourself and not concentrate so much on worship, because being led to bad theology takes years to work out. Better to begin in truth and move forward from there, you will find a dazzling church in which to worship. Don't worry.

Also, think about the fact that they believe every other Christian church and it's members are going to H E double toothpick but them. That should be a huge warning to you. No church has a lock on Christ and if they think that they do, than that is worrisome in it's own self righteousness.

And they will try to pull you away from your family, because or if they are non-believers and even other Christians because they believe they are not going to heaven anyway.

It's a slippery, slippery slope.

Those are my thoughts.

 

[RodofMoses]

For those interested:

The following info is based on the doctrines of the United Pentecostal Church:
Oneness Pentecostals do not fail to see a distinction between Father and Son as many suppose. The United Pentecostals explain the distinction of Father, Son and Holy Spirit as follows: "God is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in sanctification." Note however, that the distinction is in what God is doing and how he is doing it, not in person-hood.
The doctrine of Oneness denotes that there is only one God who manifests/reveals/expresses Himself at various times in various ways. This is in contrast to Trinitarian doctrine which sees God as always having existed as three separate and distinct persons, though one God.
One United Pentecostal theologian, David Bernard, in his book, the Oneness of God, points out that Scripture uses the term Son when referring to Jesus' humanity, never His divinity. Thus, they see a distinction between Father and Son in terms of humanity. Jesus the Son says He is one with the Father, in the Father and the Father is in Him. They therefore see one God existing simultaneously on Earth in the Son and in heaven as the Father.
Having established that background, in Matthew 3:16-17, God is in the Son, who is getting baptized. God speaks from heaven as Father, addressing His Son. God also alights upon the Son, in the likeness of a dove. But He is only one God simultaneously in three places, doing three things, in three different ways.
Bernard writes:
With the omnipresence of God in mind we can understand the baptism of Christ very easily. It was not at all difficult for the Spirit of Jesus to speak from heaven and to send a manifestation of His Spirit in the form of a dove even while His human body was in the Jordan River. The voice and the dove do not represent separate persons any more than the voice of God from Sinai indicates that the mountain was a separate intelligent person in the Godhead.
The rest of what he writes in regard to Jesus baptism is found on page 172-175 of his book, The Oneness of God.
(from https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...dQXBnkt8-YBdagZwXyawyw&bvm=bv.137901846,d.amc )

 

[ToBeLoved]

For years now the UPC has been pushing the notion of Apostolic Identity, which includes their outward distinctives. It isn't about a Christian identity or being identified with Christ, but rather the need to hold onto and follow the Apostolic Identity. The leader of the group has been pushing this since before he took over.

Can you explain this in more detail. I never have understood this Apostolic Identity part of it. Some of my family is UPC so it would be very helpful my understanding this.