Is anyone here United Pentecostal?

[RodofMoses]

I went to a United Pentecostal church last week and notice the women have long hair, no make up and all wear dresses.

I'd heard that the UPC doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit but they were singing "COME HOLY SPIRIT" and other songs about the Holy Spirit.

while I was there I felt the presence of God strongly.

I've heard some people call the UPC a cult and say they don't believe in the Holy Spirit, but if that was true the presence of God would not be there.

I don't know much about them. Do they watch tv?

Are there any UPC people here? - I can't find a list of what they believe online anywhere.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Been some time since I was involved. If I recall this used to be called the "Jesus only" church.

 

[RodofMoses]

Yeah I've heard about it being called "Jesus only" or 'oneness' but they were singing and inviting the Holy Spirit.. so clearly they believe Holy Spirit exists - I think maybe their view of HOW He exists is a bit different from 'tradition' but the Lord doesn't seem to mind because HE SHOWS UP with His presence there.

Another thing I've heard is that they believe people are only saved if they speak in tongues? - I wonder why they think that? what an odd concept. Not every Christian speaks in tongues.

Does anyone know where I can find out more about them and their beliefs (not someone's "opinion" of their beliefs but where I can find their actual beliefs?}

 

[Biblicist]

http://www.bible.ca/cr-United-Pentecostal-(upci).htm

 

[Newbie82]

There is much info available about their beliefs. Whoever told you they don't believe in the Spirit is mistaken. However, they believe Jesus is the Holy Spirit as well as the Father. (Thus the label of Jesus Only.)

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/upcbeliefs.html gives details about their beliefs and some history.

Various years of their Articles of Faith- http://www.spiritualabuse.org/aof.html

Position papers - http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/positionpapers.html

The minster's affirmation of faith - http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/affirmation.html

Some history- http://www.spiritualabuse.org/upchistory.html

 

[Newbie82]

Another thing I've heard is that they believe people are only saved if they speak in tongues? - I wonder why they think that?

They believe it is a required initial evidence that someone has received the Holy Spirit. In other words, if someone does not speak in tongues, they do not believe they have the Spirit and so they are not saved. If you also are not water baptized only in the name of Jesus (no Matthew 28:19), you are not saved. Both, according to them, are absolute requirements to be saved. In other words, they believe the vast majority of professing Christians are not saved.

 

[jiminpa]

http://www.bible.ca/cr-United-Pentecostal-(upci).htm

Yet another cessationist website opposing the Bible, and projecting their own opposition of the Bible onto those actually following the Bible.

 

[RodofMoses]

Yet another cessationist website opposing the Bible, and projecting their own opposition of the Bible onto those actually following the Bible.

yeah I noticed most the sites that have been provided for "education" on the UPC church are not exactly what I'd call "unbiased". Aren't there any balanced and fair views out there?
Well never mind, I think the best thing as always is to go directly to the source. I'll talk to them myself at the UPC.

 

[Newbie82]

Some of the links I provided show actual UPC documents. That site provides many direct links to UPC material & websites. The one on UPC beliefs gives links to their manual, which includes official rules.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yeah it's a oneness church, I recall visiting one from time to time some years ago, they were definitely part of the union of various apsotolic, pentecostal and AOG churches. Just to confirm, is this the one that has their main HQ in Washington DC?

 

[KawaiiChristianGal]

I went to a United Pentecostal church last week and notice the women have long hair, no make up and all wear dresses.

I'd heard that the UPC doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit but they were singing "COME HOLY SPIRIT" and other songs about the Holy Spirit.

while I was there I felt the presence of God strongly.

I've heard some people call the UPC a cult and say they don't believe in the Holy Spirit, but if that was true the presence of God would not be there.

I don't know much about them. Do they watch tv?

Are there any UPC people here? - I can't find a list of what they believe online anywhere.

Actually they do believe in the Holy Spirit, they just believe He is God, a manifestion / power / emanation of the ONE true God.

Hmm again they do believe in the HS but to some they can be considered a cult because they do shun those who do not agree with everything they teach, you may not see this right away but you will if they don't indoctrinate you first.

Although I am Oneness I will never be a part of the upci because they teach that only their way is valid, and they are the only true church sounds familiar of course, but in all honesty I would advise you to not get your heart set on the upc church... [Staff edit] I have been to their church and I was told that I was not saved because I did get baptized in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost, I also speak in tongues etc and they said that was impossible because you can only truly be saved / receive the Holy Spirit if you get baptized in Jesus name only!

Many individuals call them Jesus only, well it's sort of true because they constantly harp on Acts baptism they do not accept Matthews baptism, but not all Oneness folk harp on that! I am Oneness and honestly I go by what Jesus said, He said that we should baptize in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit... the Apostles said Jesus because that is where they were given the Authority it was in Jesus' name, to each their own...

See I am not accepted in Trinitarian Churches I am deemed a heretic because the Trinity sounds fishy to me, something just don't seem right about it, yet I am shunned from joining a upci church because I do not agree that baptizing in Jesus name is the only true baptismal, I honestly think both Acts and Matthew are VALID. So please be wary joining any church that makes such claims that they are the only true church!

Also the reason why they all have long hair and dresses is because they adhere to a Holiness standard, I must admit I myself adhere to that same standard because it's biblical... so that part is not a cult necessarily, what makes them cult like is the way they shun anyone different... You will see what I mean if you keep going there.

Edit: Also they typically do NOT advocate watching TV!!! They do place rules and regulations on their members, the churches can vary a tad but typically the upc has a rule, and if a pastor tries to make the rules not so hard even they can lose their license and they can no longer preach...

The rules for joining a upc typically are;
Cannot cut the hair if you are a woman, men must be fully clean shaved (no beards), women must wear skirts usually to the feet but some do the knees and below, men must wear long sleeves some do allow short sleeves but this is rare, men must wear pants obviously LOL, umm usually no tv, members must be baptized in Jesus name only!, pretty much what the pastor and the upc as a whole says goes or you can be shunned and even rejected a membership. Oh and as proof for someones salvation they must all speak in tongues as a sign of truly receiving the Holy Spirit...

If you have any more questions please ask me!

 

[RodofMoses]

Actually they do believe in the Holy Spirit, they just believe He is God, a manifestion / power / emanation of the ONE true God.

Hmm again they do believe in the HS but to some they can be considered a cult because they do shun those who do not agree with everything they teach, you may not see this right away but you will if they don't indoctrinate you first.

Although I am Oneness I will never be a part of the upci because they teach that only their way is valid, and they are the only true church sounds familiar of course, but in all honesty I would advise you to not get your heart set on the upc church... [Staff edit] I have been to their church and I was told that I was not saved because I did get baptized in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost, I also speak in tongues etc and they said that was impossible because you can only truly be saved / receive the Holy Spirit if you get baptized in Jesus name only!

Many individuals call them Jesus only, well it's sort of true because they constantly harp on Acts baptism they do not accept Matthews baptism, but not all Oneness folk harp on that! I am Oneness and honestly I go by what Jesus said, He said that we should baptize in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit... the Apostles said Jesus because that is where they were given the Authority it was in Jesus' name, to each their own...

See I am not accepted in Trinitarian Churches I am deemed a heretic because the Trinity sounds fishy to me, something just don't seem right about it, yet I am shunned from joining a upci church because I do not agree that baptizing in Jesus name is the only true baptismal, I honestly think both Acts and Matthew are VALID. So please be wary joining any church that makes such claims that they are the only true church!

Also the reason why they all have long hair and dresses is because they adhere to a Holiness standard, I must admit I myself adhere to that same standard because it's biblical... so that part is not a cult necessarily, what makes them cult like is the way they shun anyone different... You will see what I mean if you keep going there.

Edit: Also they typically do NOT advocate watching TV!!! They do place rules and regulations on their members, the churches can vary a tad but typically the upc has a rule, and if a pastor tries to make the rules not so hard even they can lose their license and they can no longer preach...

The rules for joining a upc typically are;
Cannot cut the hair if you are a woman, men must be fully clean shaved (no beards), women must wear skirts usually to the feet but some do the knees and below, men must wear long sleeves some do allow short sleeves but this is rare, men must wear pants obviously LOL, umm usually no tv, members must be baptized in Jesus name only!, pretty much what the pastor and the upc as a whole says goes or you can be shunned and even rejected a membership. Oh and as proof for someones salvation they must all speak in tongues as a sign of truly receiving the Holy Spirit...

If you have any more questions please ask me!

n HI, thank you I really appreciate you sharing about your personal experience.

To me I'm not very worried about what the UPC tries to tell me. I am not going to church to learn doctrines of men, I am going only to worship. I go where the Presence of God is and I don't go to just "one" church. I DO expect that eventually I will be persecuted by the 3 different churches I attend because of my beliefs. I fully expect it. I do not believe in "memberships" because it's not biblical. I also do not believe in the popular teaching that a person has to have a "home church" because that's not in the bible either. I go wherever I feel the Spirit wants me to go each sunday. There are a lot of wrong teachings & doctrines in the church today that have been passed down through the ages.

In regards to trinity or oneness, I really don't think the Lord is too concerned about it. It's humans that seem to get all upset about it. I don't see a huge difference between how trinitarians believe in the Holy Spirit and how Oneness believe in the Holy Spirit. I've been to 3 different churches in the past 6 weeks and the presence of GOD is in ALL OF THEM. I hope the UPC church doesn't try to tell me I have to wear dresses and take my make up off. God is in the business of changing people on the INSIDE first. I haven't gone to a morning service there yet, I've only gone to their services at night and I have very much enjoyed the worship and entering into HIS presence. I don't pay a lot of attention to the sermons. I'm a worshipper -- God's presence and anointing teaches us more than any words a pastor of any denomination could speak. I will say that the pastor there does look at me like I'm weird. His wife is much more cordial.

I'm a little surprised that while the UPC believes in the manifestation of the Baptism of Holy Spirit, there do not appear to be ANY other spiritual gifts in operation at this particular church - Is that normal? No words are brought forth in tongues - No regular prophetic words - nothing like that. Is this strange to you? At the other pentecostal church there are prophetic gifts in operation.

Also, what is the belief of the UPC in regards to seeing visions? -- A little of what I've read indicates that they think there is some special way to see in the spirit?

The pastor and his wife have iphones and computers, which is kind of odd when I consider that they probably don't have a tv.

All I really want to do at the UPC is go there in the evenings and worship God; it's the only church in the area with evening worship services.

 

[Newbie82]

I'm a little surprised that while the UPC believes in the manifestation of the Baptism of Holy Spirit, there do not appear to be ANY other spiritual gifts in operation at this particular church - Is that normal? No words are brought forth in tongues - No regular prophetic words - nothing like that. Is this strange to you? At the other pentecostal church there are prophetic gifts in operation.

In all the UPC churches I have attended, the emphasis has been on tongues. Many churches have tongues and interpretation. In the ones I have attended, there was not much prophecy or visions.

If you are not Oneness, some in the group may question your speaking in tongues. I have seen ministers and others make reference to Trinitarians not really having the Holy Spirit, even though they speak in tongues. Of course, all in the group do not think that way.

 

[Tigger45]

Both UPC congratulations I visited ultimately insisted on full doctrinal agreement culminating in membership.

 

[RodofMoses]

In all the UPC churches I have attended, the emphasis has been on tongues. Many churches have tongues and interpretation. In the ones I have attended, there was not much prophecy or visions.

If you are not Oneness, some in the group may question your speaking in tongues. I have seen ministers and others make reference to Trinitarians not really having the Holy Spirit, even though they speak in tongues. Of course, all in the group do not think that way.

that's a shame
I have told them that I go to other churches (the regular AOG pentecostal church down the road) and also told them I sense God at the AOG as well as other churches AND I sense Him in their church too. All this "denominational" stuff is for the birds.

1 cor 3:3-5
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

There will be a problem if the UPC (or any other church) tries to tell me I have to work towards membership. Membership isn't biblical, and neither is the concept of 'going only to one church' - nothing remotely like that is in scripture. We're told to "forsake not the gathering together with believers" but that does not even mean you have to go to 'church' -- You can 'gather together with believers' on the internet, in homes, or any other place..

I will probably end up being persecuted by all the churches I've been attending in some form, because they adhere to man-made doctrines that aren't biblical

 

[Newbie82]

The UPC church shouldn't pressure you to join as a member. If you have not been water baptized in the name of Jesus, they probably won't ever mention it. But you may be watched, depending on leadership, since you have voiced you are fine with attending a Trinitarian church. The UPC is very much against that teaching, with many calling it pagan, and that is why some there dismiss their experience of speaking in tongues.

Oneness Pentecostals had been part of the AoG in the early 1900s. They co-existed with them until they started insisting that everyone had to be water baptized their way.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yeah I've heard about it being called "Jesus only" or 'oneness' but they were singing and inviting the Holy Spirit.. so clearly they believe Holy Spirit exists - I think maybe their view of HOW He exists is a bit different from 'tradition' but the Lord doesn't seem to mind because HE SHOWS UP with His presence there.

Another thing I've heard is that they believe people are only saved if they speak in tongues? - I wonder why they think that? what an odd concept. Not every Christian speaks in tongues.

Does anyone know where I can find out more about them and their beliefs (not someone's "opinion" of their beliefs but where I can find their actual beliefs?}

Go to the UPC website.

 

[Albion]

Rod of Moses,

The UPC is considered to be a cult because it doesn't believe in the Trinity.

Yes, it believes in the Holy Spirit (in a way), in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and etc. but this is why it's considered a cult.

 

[RodofMoses]

The UPC church shouldn't pressure you to join as a member. If you have not been water baptized in the name of Jesus, they probably won't ever mention it. But you may be watched, depending on leadership, since you have voiced you are fine with attending a Trinitarian church. The UPC is very much against that teaching, with many calling it pagan, and that is why some there dismiss their experience of speaking in tongues.

Oneness Pentecostals had been part of the AoG in the early 1900s. They co-existed with them until they started insisting that everyone had to be water baptized their way.

They can watch me all they want. One of the women invited me over for tea a few times but so far I've not gone. I know she has a TV because she's mentioned watching a couple game shows. I guess these UPC folks watch tv..? The day after I went to the UPC church the very first time I was invited over to the pastor's home and sat outside with them on their patio and told them my testimony. Discernment told me that they would rather have me not enter their home for some reason (?). I have NO IDEA what they thought because they did not make any facial expressions or say anything about what I'd just told them (my testimony is incredibly severe). I only caught the pastor's wife looking over at her husband's face a couple times. At one point he began to rub his face as though distressed but he didn't say anything.. I guess that could have been a sign that he was troubled over some of what I was telling him (I had spoken about some prophetic messages I'd received from the Lord). However, before I departed the pastor told me I was welcome to attend their church.

Most churches out there think I'm weird anyway because I'm prophetic, so I doubt that I will fit into any of them. Jesus didn't fit in either and only a fist full of outwardly appearing 'losers' looked to Him (I suppose Luke didn't look like a loser since he was a doctor but the rest of them weren't well off or lofty). We can expect the same I suppose.

Rod of Moses,
The UPC is considered to be a cult because it doesn't believe in the Trinity.

Yes, it believes in the Holy Spirit (in a way), in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and etc. but this is why it's considered a cult.

I do not view the UPC as a cult. I only view it as another church which has beliefs which are a bit different from the rest. The SPIRIT of God is in that church and if GOD is there, even though they have some wrong doctrines, then it is still a church that God loves and not a "cult". I am not all that interested in scrutinizing differences of doctrine unless they are incredibly serious. I do not view people seeing the Holy Spirit in a different way from them as being a huge problem so long as they acknowledge that there is a Holy Spirit. But likewise, I do not believe it's healthy for the UPC to view other churches as heretics or being wrong either. The Holy Spirit is at ALL the churches I've attended and I've sensed His presence at all of them. So God is clearly working in them all.

 

[geetrue]

I'd heard that the UPC doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit but they were singing "COME HOLY SPIRIT" and other songs about the Holy Spirit.

while I was there I felt the presence of God strongly.

I don't know much about them. Do they watch tv?

Keep us informed of your progress investigating the UPC ... sounds interesting ... I only have three churches in my small town, but I like to know what the real world is like besides my small town.

as for feeling good, be careful about what you feel. If the devil couldn't deceive you he wouldn't try now would he?

I've been to lots of feel good churches that have now gone down the drain, but that is another subject.

Someone should start a thread on the suffering church.