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Is allah the "proper noun" name of God?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by Liberate, Nov 17, 2006.

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  1. Liberate

    Liberate Regular Member

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    Moved this discussion to a new thread due to complaints. My apologies to all who felt the thread was hijacked.

    Muslims claim allah is the proper noun name of God, i.e God's true name, not a common noun, i.e a generic name like Lord, but the real name of God, just as you are generically called a he, but your real name might be Luke...John... this is a little disconcerting considering to all intense and purposes, arabic did not exist before hebrew; and there is no equivalent of the hebrew name for God as God's proper noun name in the entire quran:

    So we are left with a dilemma, why for 5+ millenias christians and jews have known God by a different proper noun name, only for the quran to arrive 600 years after christianity; and claim God's proper noun name is 'allah' and was always 'allah' since the very beginning? Considering the arabic language itself was still being developed years after the death of it's prophet, the claim is a little, for want of a better word, patronizing.

    An indepth study into the roots of the name 'allah' reveals quite a lot of hitherto unflattering information. Of the numerous arabic lexicons about, the lexicon by Edward Lane, stands alone as a classic masterpiece, simply for it's meticulous precision done over a 34 year period. On page 82 of Lane's lexicon there is an entry for the root 'ilaha'

    [​IMG]

    Notice under this root Lane says it means:
    "he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.

    On the very next page, p.83 of Lane's lexicon, he describes the origins of the word allah:

    [​IMG]

    Notice that Lane (a christian, despite his decades living with muslims) twice designates the islamic god, with a small g , i.e "only true god" Notice Lane also says that allah is " originally ilaha or ilaaha" It would take some semantic acrobatics of absurd proportions to claim that Lane doesn't mean allah is originally "ilaha or ilaaha" seeing he has given no less than five sources (in brackets) who testify to this. Recall again that the root of this word means "he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.

    Even if this evidence were to be dismissed as the subjective opinions of a christian, the team from answering-christianity (a muslim site)
    admits allah is related to ilah. The team from islamic-awareness (another muslim site)understand that allah is related to ilah, the team from islam-online ( a moderate westernized muslim site)understand allah is related to ilah, the team from answering-islam understand allah is related to ilah, Even a google search categorically states allah and ilah have the same root in Lane's lexicon.

    The evidence that allah and ilah have the same source is damning. This does not mean any arab christian who calls God allah is worshipping a false God, as God knows the heart, but the origins of the word allah, are rooted in idol worship, as implied by the best arabic lexicon available.

    _______________________________________________
    Please explain what it means by " originally ilaha or ilaaha"? This is a simple request, a question you have not answered in any thread, what is that phrase doing there, what does it mean?

    Again you are obfuscating to save face, I reiterate Lane saying allah being a contraction of al-ilaha was never my argument, (and I suggest you take it up with your islamic sister UmmuIsa who I notice is the one making that argument that allah is a contraction of al-ilah)

    If you do not want to take the word of the team from answering-christianity (a muslim site) who admit allah is related to ilah. The team from islamic-awareness (another muslim site) who understand that allah is related to ilah, the team from islam-online ( a moderate westernized muslim site) who also understand allah is related to ilah, the team from answering-islam who understand allah is related to ilah. Even a google search categorically states allah and ilah have the same root in Lane's lexicon.

    There really is no point moving the goalposts to save face. So Islam_mullia if you are going to give a meaningful response, I only ask that you explain what Lane means when under allah he says " originally ilaha or ilaaha" Please no red herrings, no misrepresentations and lies that I said Lane claims allah is derived from al-ilaha/al-ilah, just answer this one question.



     
  2. Liberate

    Liberate Regular Member

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    This is standard islamic apologetics to dismiss a claim without ever looking at it.

    I suggest you have this argument with Islam_mullia, allah being contracted from al-ilah was never the argument I said Lane implied. You only prove whichever way you look at it the root ilah damns the god of islam. (I am well aware that the majority of modern muslims say allah is contracted from al-ilah, this is not what I am saying Lane says, but I am asking what the root of allah is)

    At least you are honest in that respect, since you state muslims are not to interpret the quran with their own understanding, would you care to state which madzhab you follow? (No relevance at all to the discussion, just out of curiousity, it's a little like getting blood from a stone to get muslims here to state the madzhab they follow, as much of what they say contradicts what you have just said about interpreting the quran with their own understanding, as they more than often do just that, without the authority to do so).


    It is interesting you understand the concept that God is holy, and good deeds, mean nothing, christianity has a similar concept, but where we differ is instead of Mohammed not knowing where he is going, the instigator of our faith knows precisely where He is going, and even islam states Jesus is coming back to judge.



    I have not seen any explicit evidence of allah's mercy except to excuse Mohammed for his various infidelities; i.e when caught in bed with Mariam Hafsa's slave maid in sura 66, which Aisha and Hafsa came up against him for, and he needed the help of allah to sanction his infidelity by having allah say "why forbid what has been made lawful for you" (i.e to continue sleeping with Mariam, after promising Hafsa he wouldn't do it again, when she caught him in the act). Where is the mercy for homosexuals? for pagans? for first time theives? who have their limbs decapitated, where is the mercy for women imprisoned when unable to provide four witnesses to have seen the act of penetration before convicting anyone of raping them? But are instead imprisoned for indirectly admitting to zina (intercourse outside of marriage). Where is the mercy for apostates who are given three days to revert or face death?



    So you believe your good deeds will outweigh your bad deeds? Which part of your madzhabs says this? Suppose your bad deeds are really bad, suppose you are a murderer? or a thief how is that ranked on the eternal scales of judgement?


    Islam also says allah is "the lord of devils" How do you understand this phrase?
     
  3. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    [​IMG]

    Greetings

    I see you insist in pasting refuted material about islam and One and only G-d Allah Allmighty.

    I will give you clear proofs.

    This is an christian arab site .

     
  4. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    Cont
     
  5. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Why has the pronounciation of the Name of One and only G-d disturbed some people ?
     
  6. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    Further evidence and explanation

    http://members.nbci.com/lordexarkun/Islam/AllahOrigin.html
    .....




    [​IMG]


    And the next table shows the common Semitic words used in reference to The One True (G)od.


    [​IMG]
     
  7. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    Jesus pbuh prayed to Allah in aramaic


     
  8. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    Do Muslims Worship The Moon God? Refutation To The Myth By Etymological Evidence

    Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Christians who try to claim that Allâh () is the name of the "moon god", are influenced by the writings of Dr. Robert Morey, who wrote as such in his book The Islamic Invasion. Regardless, they (and Dr. Morey included) are playing a silly game. The writings of Dr. Morey are nothing more than the thoughts of a mid-Western creationist closet-fascist, and were not originally intended for a wide audience. Regardless, his "evidence" of a so-called moon deity named "Allâh" actually hurts his religion as much as it does Islam. The basic claim is that the pre-Islamic Semitic world (not just Arabia) was the home to widespread worship of a moon god or goddess named "Allâh". The problem with speculations about pre-Islamic deities from the Semitic world in this case is the fact that any inscription prior to the advent of Islam is also prior to the introduction of diacritical marks in the Semitic languages. Why is this a problem? Well, if one claims to have found evidence of a moon god named "Allâh" in Palestine, Syria, or Lebanon, this claim applies to the respective deities of both Christianity and Islam. The first time the word "God" appears in the Bible, it is in


    Genesis 1:1, when it states:
    [​IMG]

    B'reshit bara ELOHIM et ha-shama'im, V'et ha-arets.
    In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.



    ...cont
     
  9. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    Allah in the book of Ezra

     
  10. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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  11. 0rion

    0rion Regular Member

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    Abdurrahim, you are not disproving anything. Liberate is not stating that the word 'Allah' does not mean 'God'.

    Your evidence is that, archeologist found that christians used the word 'Allah' to mean God, but the name of God is not God... it is YHWH in the previous scriptures.

    Look at it like this,
    Doctor is a profession, the name of the doctor is James.
    God is a profession, the name of God is YHWH.

    Now, what islam is doing, it has confused the name of God (the profession) to be God. Are you with me this far?

    Now, your evidence is that christians that lived before Islam said God to God, that is just fine, but they didn't mean Allah to mean the proper name as muslims think it is.
     
  12. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    An important book

    Beautiful Names of ALLAH mentioned in the Bible
    by Dr. S.M. Mohiuddin Habeebi, Syed Ahsan Habibi


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    Yahweh is not a name .

    It is derived from verb to be and means "He is".

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08329a.htm

    Catholic Encyclopedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

     
  14. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    cont
     
  15. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    cont
     
  16. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    cont
     
  17. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    As you see it is a long story but YHWH is an artificial name.In fact this word is not a name.

    Note the startling resemblance between the languages, very often the same sounding words carry identical meaning in both.

    HEBREW ..ARABIC ..ENGLISH
    Elah ...Ilah.... god
    Ikhud ...Ahud... one
    Yaum ... Yaum ..day
    Shaloam.. Salaam.. peace
    Yahuwa ..Ya Huwa.. oh he

    Peace
     
  18. Abdurrahim

    Abdurrahim Veteran

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    http://byubroadcasting.org/deadsea/book/chapter2/sec3.html

    Interesting

     
  19. Oxy2Hydr0

    Oxy2Hydr0 Senior Veteran

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    You are on my ignore list, so I will answer the title of your topic, that can only be seen, rather than your usual book posts.

    Yes the word Alllaah is a proper noun/name of God Alimighty in the Arabic language.

    Edward Lane (A Christian Arabic Scholar) tells you this and Abdul Omar Mannan has perfectly stipulated this in their lexicographic works.

    Furthermore NO Arabic lexicon that exits says to the contrary. Other than this I will leave you to Abdurrahim.
     
  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Member since March 7 2006

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    What about the name for the LORD God.
    After all, it is the LORD that is our God as there can be many lords and many gods. What is arabic for "LORD" btw.

    Mar 12:29 And 1161 Jesus 2424 answered 611 him 846, The 3754 first 4413 of all 3956 the commandments 1785 [is], Hear 191 , O Israel 2474; The Lord 2962 our 2257 God 2316 is 2076 one 1520 Lord 2962:
     
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