Introducing myself

[The Gentleman Atheist]

i have done pretty well, in the last 10 years or so, in avoiding blanket assumption about people. Reading back over my posts on your behalf, i'm afraid i cannot see where i have relapsed in this area. Perhaps an example or two from you as to what exactly you are alluding to would be helpful. i am more than happy to confess my shortcomings--i do it a lot--so don't be shy in delineating specifics.

Oh please, Ephraim – blanket statements and dogmatic blind faith are your admitted primary modus operandi. Additionally, I have addressed these before, so I do not feel a need to repeat myself for your amusement. Let me refer to post #135 of this thread as a starting point.

Also… to you, Chesterton and others who have made references to my relationship to the honourable Duke of Edinburgh: I am certainly not the Duke. I would think that my low and common language should easily betray that I could never be a royal. Long live the Duke and the Queen!

And… to you, Chesterton and others who have made references to my relationship to Sir Michael Jagger: I have met Sir Mick at an event in Kent, and I found him to be a rather crass fellow. I did not pursue any business with him, and I do not hope to. Admittedly I am rather curious why any of you mention him.

In any case, do stay well.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Perry, your answers betray you as a rather noble-minded fellow, and I do appreciate your comments here. I am not sure how well they aid me in my quest; but it is helpful to be treated seriously and to be given honest answers. I find, however, that this might be correct and its converse may be equally correct, does not necessarily lead me to a "use blind faith" argument.

The truth is no one can give you absolute facts that will lead you to a belief in God. Reality is you must look at circumstantial evidence, science, history, and within yourself for those answers. If you are seeking the truth and not just debate you might consider asking God to reveal himself to you and then keep your heart open.

My heart is certainly open – I have seen too much life to live with a closed heart. The central problem here is that I can not open my heart with without opening my mind; and when I do so, I can not regard the christian world-view as reconciling with an open heart.

I might go further to say that no one can live with an open heart, if they do not have an open mind. It is an interesting point, I think. I would appreciate your feedback on it.

His complete name is Dr. Ken Ham. He is a well known scientist that supports the creation theory with some very good arguments against Darwinian theory.

Oh my goodness, what a stroke of coincidence! I recently met Ken Ham during a trip to – is it Kentucky? I was attending some horse races anyway. I wish I had remembered my conversation while speaking with him. He certainly is quite a fellow – and though quite bright, he is not a real doctor, I thought you should know. He has a couple honourary doctorates from christian learning institutions; however, his real (undergraduate) training falls into biology and education. He is a science teacher, in other words. You see, you shouldn't entirely trust someone from the prison colony!

In any case, he is a bright fellow and can answer some questions about protozoan life from such an amateur biologist as myself. (At least I believe his answers were accurate!) Still, even though I am gravely suspect of such democratic analysis, when 99.99% of those who work in a certain dedicated field hold one philosophy, and only 0.01% oppose this, I do know where the likelihood of the argument lies.

Wonderful stuff, Perry! I am looking forward to speaking with you some more.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Dear Manic,

You have all of the bearing of a second-generation (perhaps a third-generation) missionary. Am I far from the truth?

What I find interesting is your recognition that you are not very familiar with prayer. I would encourage you to try it, even if you feel silly doing so, seeing as how you don't believe in God. God meets us where we're at...he's able to overcome any obstacles, even a firm disbelief. … Try praying. Shut yourself up somewhere where no one will see you or bother you, and try to pray.

If you had read carefully, you would see that not only have I investigated prayer and meditation (if we are to delineate the one from the other), but I have also been a member of a christian church in my early life. I am certainly familiar with prayer and I am equally familiar with its results. Yet I still find myself in this position.

As for your question, "would like there to be a God? Would be glad to discover there was one?" This would depend entirely upon which god you are referring to. It might be nice to have a dionysus around for a while! Even to have a terribly dull-but-efficient apollo might be a pleasant prospect. Maybe this world would be a bit more organized!! The abrahamic god, however, would be a jealous, homicidal nightmare! Don't you think?

In my recent travels in India I was reminded of the hindu god called ganesha, who aids in self-improvement and education. Wouldn't it be an interesting world if we all worshipped these things?

I will leave you know with that thought to ponder.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

I've been praying for this man for some days now. I feel strange saying, Lord, soften Mr. Gentleman Atheist's heart and allow him to discover you...but God knows perfectly well who this gentleman is. And how desperately he needs the Lord Jesus.
I hope wherever you are, Mr. Gentleman Atheist, that you are well, and seeing God work in your life. I know He is. He loves you, you know. He created you and knows you better than you know yourself. He has a purpose for you, plans to prosper and not to harm you. There's no need to be afraid of Him....

Oh please, Manic, do cease this nonsense. What I mean is: I do not mind at all if you pray for me, just please keep it to yourself. Otherwise this type of prayer only appears to be a patronizing condescension. To make it a public posting here is an attempt to establish a hierarchy of power, in which you become the holier-than-thou benefactress who piously bestows blessings on someone who does not have want or need of them. I would rather that we engage in a productive public conversation rather than this "poor gentleman" silliness.

Do have yourself a nice day.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Perhaps you've heard of the story where God caused a donkey to speak?

Yes Raze, gods have caused a lot of donkeys to speak.

If you wish to preserve your atheism, avoid the Bible studies at all costs

My dear sir, it is mostly study of the bible that led me away from faith and kept me there. I am wondering if you are being completely serious with me? The winky smily symbol indicates that you are not.

Jolly good, sir. Thanking you for your input and good humour.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

…he may enjoy reading a book by Marie Corelli by the title of; The Sorrows of Satan (Or, the Strange Experience of One Geoffrey Tempest, Millionaire) 1895 // I think it may help him to understand a little of the general Christian religion.

Interesting, Jeliel. I believe that I have read this book some years ago. It is a good faustian rant, but it suggests that people of wealth can not be good people at all! Evidently, Corelli is not a calvinist!

Of course you must have read Goethe's Werther novel? I regard it as a warning against this sort of romantic foot-trap. Fun stuff in any case. Happy reading, Jeliel.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Is it time for high tea yet?

Oh no my dear, judging from your time stamp, you missed it by just a bit. Thankfully, tea-time happens every day. Now isn't that a proper thing!?

Which reminds me, it is getting close to that time. I shall sign off for a bit, but I hope to talk to you all soon. The best of days to you all.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[razeontherock]

My heart is certainly open – I have seen too much life to live with a closed heart. The central problem here is that I can not open my heart with without opening my mind; and when I do so, I can not regard the christian world-view as reconciling with an open heart.

I would say your "the christian world view" and mine are much further than an ocean apart, vis:

The abrahamic god, however, would be a jealous, homicidal nightmare! Don't you think?

No. Thought not necessary - speaking from experience. We have disclosed the source of your confusion on the matter. Attending a Bible study with people that actually know Him would be one way to sort this out, although it would likely take months.

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

I would say your "the christian world view" and mine are much further than an ocean apart, vis: … No. Thought not necessary - speaking from experience. We have disclosed the source of your confusion on the matter. Attending a Bible study with people that actually know Him would be one way to sort this out, although it would likely take months.

Hullo again, Raze.

It does seem to me that this is the second time that you have enjoined me to follow some type of bible study or training. This is wavering a bit upon the line of proselytizing rather than addressing my earnest concerns.

Earlier in this thread I had submitted that it was not likely that any degree of proselytization would bring me to accept christian tenets and that for a forum member to pursue such a ludicrous assay would likely be a waste of their time.

That being said, there are many ways in which we may consider Christian Forums - Where Christian Community Meets Faith to be a centre of "bible study" – and in that regard, I have already taken both of the steps that you recommend here.

We do seem to be a bit off-course with this thread. May I ask our readers and contributors if we need to repost our central concerns? Hopefully, we can move forward from the stall that we have met with, as I do not feel that I have a clear understanding of the things which motivate you.

I thank you all for the time and thoughts that you have shared with me here.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[razeontherock]

I do not feel that I have a clear understanding of the things which motivate you.

That makes for a short thread. A Christian is motivated by Love for Christ. This does need to be balanced by basic needs like food clothing and shelter, and the degree of stoicism or self-centeredness will vary upon conviction, and there are other things that may compete for our affections as well, which may or may not be tolerated or even Blessed by our Lord.

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

That makes for a short thread. A Christian is motivated by Love for Christ. This does need to be balanced by basic needs like food clothing and shelter, and the degree of stoicism or self-centeredness will vary upon conviction, and there are other things that may compete for our affections as well, which may or may not be tolerated or even Blessed by our Lord.

Raze,

This is a well-intended and well-considered response – just the very thing that I was hoping for. I do thank you for treating my concerns seriously; something that I can not say for all of the contributors to this thread.

Since I could also say that my love of Calvados is (sometimes) tempered by exigencies such as food and shelter, I would like to further investigate the part of your balance which I do not comprehend. Is it possible to expound upon "Love of Christ" with reasonable concision? Consider this, specifically: I have lived on this good Earth for – well, a few years, let us say – and I believe that I have been a good, decent, and upstanding person, who has contributed in no small part to the bettering of our society. I have been a land holder, builder, soldier, academic, and instructor (the list goes on a bit, but I believe that you get my point). And yet, I have neither known nor needed your christ to do any of these things.

Does this better explain why I may be asking these questions? Does it serve as an apologetics for the cause I have in learning more about christians?

I do appreciate, Mr. Raze, that your responses have neither been empty nor malicious, so I direct this query to you, but any person here may pick up the thread, should they so wish.

A good day to everyone.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[marlowe007]

This is an interesting thread. I can see you are sincere and not merely the pastiche gimmick that some have mistaken you for.

Space does not permit me to detail the events leading to my present spiritual state, so rather than cobbling up a long-winded personal testimony (which is, frankly, beyond the scope of an internet forum), I'd like to focus on one of the people who helped bring me to the Christian faith.

As corny as it may sound, my childhood hero was Napoleon Bonaparte; I've always been fascinated by this bloke, his charisma, his panache, his braggadocio. I had always assumed he had been against religion all his life, and you will often find atheists using his line: Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. But then I came across an oration he made around the time he was vaunting all his accomplishments on the island of St. Helena. It was a discourse about Jesus of Nazareth that Ravi Zacharias believes to be "almost unexcelled by any political leader." To see this most arrogant of men, who reported on the groundlings from a cloud's-eye view, finding himself delicately and softly humbled before Jesus Christ was very inspiring to me:

Well then, I will tell you. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne and I myself have founded great empires; but upon what did these creations of our genius depend? Upon force. Jesus alone founded His empire upon love, and to this very day millions will die for Him. . . . I think I understand something of human nature; and I tell you, all these were men, and I am a man; none else is like Him: Jesus Christ was more than a man. . . . I have inspired multitudes with such an enthusiastic devotion that they would have died for me . . . but to do this is was necessary that I should be visibly present with the electric influence of my looks, my words, of my voice. When I saw men and spoke to them, I lightened up the flame of self-devotion in their hearts. . . . Christ alone has succeeded in so raising the mind of man toward the unseen, that it becomes insensible to the barriers of time and space. Across a chasm of eighteen hundred years, Jesus Christ makes a demand which is beyond all others difficult to satisfy; He asks for that which a philosopher may often seek in vain at the hands of his friends, or a father of his children, or a bride of her spouse, or a man of his brother. He asks for the human heart; He will have it entirely to Himself. He demands it unconditionally; and forthwith His demand is granted. Wonderful! In defiance of time and space, the soul of man, with all its powers and faculties, becomes an annexation to the empire of Christ. All who sincerely believe in Him, experience that remarkable, supernatural love toward Him. This phenomenon is unaccountable; it is altogether beyond the scope of man's creative powers. Time, the great destroyer, is powerless to extinguish this sacred flame; time can neither exhaust its strength nor put a limit to its range. This is it, which strikes me most; I have often thought of it. This it is which proves to me quite convincingly the Divinity of Jesus Christ.

 

[YinandYang]

In the spirit of love, I would like to share my views on some of the questions and comments that have been posted in the previous threads.

Let me start out by saying that, for all intensive purposes, I myself grew up an atheist. My father did not believe in God, and I was much closer to him growing up than I was with my mother. He taught me to reason and question everything, and come to my own conclusions on things, especially religion. My mother was raised, and remains today, a Presbyterian, although her faith is not as strong as I wished it was, with all due respect to her. She was, and still is, a great mother though. She taught me how to care for others, to be a good person, and to do the right thing, in spite of the consequences for such actions.

So I guess you could say that I gained a lot from both of my parents, but in very different ways. Both of them, though, always told me that they would support me in whatever decision I made with regards to religion (as well as any other decision I made in my life) because they loved me.

It wasn't until I was in high school though, that I began to seriously think about and ponder the existance of God. I went to a Catholic high school, and I can still remember how, on orientation day of my freshman year (the first time I had been to the school) I felt the presence of something very good and special there (forgive my lack of descriptive verbage usage, this is just the way I viewed it back then, and I feel it is the best way to share it with others). I did not understand what it was at the time, and I do not pretend today to have had a conversion experience like Saint Paul on the road to Damascus. However, it was an extremely powerful experience, and one which changed my life forever.

Throughout my high school years, I had to take theology classes, and since I was often behind the other students in knowledge, I began to get frustrated at how hard I had to work in order to keep up with the rest of the class and keep my grades up. I pushed myself to learn all that I could about Christianity, specifically Catholicism. As a result, I began watching EWTN, the global Catholic television network, as well as studying anything else I could get my hands on which spoke about Catholicism.

However, I questioned and disbelieved about 95% of what I heard about Christianity. The only thing that I originally liked about it was that Christians admitted that they were evil people, along with the rest of the world and that they needed forgiveness and help from God. "Evil" was something that I had been struggling with for sometime in this point in my life. I grew up rather well off, and was given the opportunity to do whatever I wanted with my life. But the selfishness that I saw, seemingly, all around me, led me to question what my path in life should be. Evil seemed to rule everything, and yet, I could see a side of goodness that somehow could beat evil. Not through a power struggle, but by love and kindness and compassion. I admired greatly those whom I met in my own life, and also those whom I had heard about throughout history, who had done the right thing with their lives. It made me realize that there was more to life than just trying to get as much out of life for oneself as one could. I wanted to live a holy and good life myself, even though, at the time, I wasn't sure how to do so.

All of this led me to, once again, ponder the existence of God. The fact that, in Christianity, God gives us the grace to do that which we could not do on our own, also deeply touched my heart. It made sense to me, when I realized how much evil I had done in my own life, when I was truly honest with myself. I never considered myself a terrible person, but I had lied, cursed, hated and hurt others etc, as we all have done. This led me to realize that I was in need of forgiveness for what I had done in my life, and that I needed help in order to change on the inside. I also felt saddened by my "sins" (although at the time the term sin was not in my vocabulary) and I wanted to become a better person. However, everytime I tried on my own, I would make the same mistakes. It seemed impossible to obtain the level of goodness I desired on my own.

(Continued in next post)

 

[YinandYang]

(Continued from previous post)

I studied Catholicism, as well as other religions and philosophies, more and more, searching for an answer to my dilemma. I knew that there had to be an answer to the reason for all the evil in the world, and also why goodness could shine forth in spite of this evil, and that there had to be a way I could change and become a great person myself, but that I needed help to do so.

Then finally, the answers slowly began coming to me, through many different people, whether in school, EWTN, my family/friends, or even just strangers. God began to work in my life, despite my stubborness.

Everything just took that one explanation that made sense for me to accept it. I attacked the Catholic Church with everything I could think of, as I do with everything else in my life, to see if it would stand the tests. And, to my surprise, it did. Every question I had, the Church had an answer to that made sense to me. And what shocked me the most, was how much it all interrelated and fit together, I loved it. It was like a gigantic puzzle. At first it's tough to get a few pieces together, but once God started arranging the pieces, everything began to fall into place.

The biggest thing that kept me going, was actually witnessing God work in my life. People would say things to me, or I'de read something in the paper, or hear something on the radio or the television, and I could feel God telling me, this is for you, listen! It was not an audible voice, but it was a spiritual feeling that cannot be mistaken. Those who have also experienced it can probably do a greater service in describing it than i can. I just knew that it was God, and that He was trying to teach me His ways.

It was tough though, especially at first. There was much that I didn't want to give up, and much of my own erroneous thinking that I wanted to hold on to. The parable of the potter and the clay comes to mind. He molds us into the image of His Son, but it can be painful at times, especially when there is much that needs to be stripped away. I must say though that, looking back, it was without a doubt worth it. I can see how foolish and prideful I was back then, and how much I've grown as a person and like His Son now.

It's an incredible experience, living your life with God. I had everything before I become a Christian, according to the world's view, but it was all meaningless in the end if you think about it. We build up our earthly treasures, and yet when we die what are we left with, nothing but the story of our lives. Everything else is taken from us, no matter how powerful we think we are. Having God in your life is the best possesion one can obtain.

The thought of eternity also entered into my journey home to Jesus Christ. I dwelt on the afterlife for a long time. I could not fathom just ceasing to exist after death, or that life was just an accident, or a seemingly impossible and improbable set of circumstances which led to my coming into existence. I believed that there had to be more to it than that, especially when I looked at the scientific statistics for something like the universe coming into being the way it did. If it was in regards to anything else but creation, the incredibly small probability of it occuring would cause everyone to say that it was, for all intensive purposes, impossible without a higher being, i.e. God to have made it so. But, since it was in regards to creation, many would not admit to this. That to me sounded like an extremely dishonest viewpoint to have. Plus, the arguments made for the complexity of things such as the human eye etc influenced me greatly, and led me toward my belief in God.

Ultimately though, I would have to sum up my journey by saying that I basically just tried Catholicism and it worked for me, in such a magnificent way that words cannot do it justice. I found the Lord, or should I say He found me, and I've never been the same since. I cannot tell you how many times He's revealed Himself to me in such incredible and unmistakable ways, that it just made me smile that the creator of the entire universe, and you and I, would want to spend time with me and that He loved me enough to send his only Son to die for me on the cross, so that I can be with Him forever in heaven.

Give God and His Church an honest and sincere try, and I'm sure you'll be surprised as well, the incredible things He'll do in your life.

I hope that helps.

May God bless you and Mary keep you in her prayers always.

YinandYang

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

As corny as it may sound, my childhood hero was Napoleon Bonaparte; I've always been fascinated by this bloke, his charisma, his panache, his braggadocio. I had always assumed he had been against religion all his life, and you will often find atheists using his line: Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. But then I came across an oration he made around the time he was vaunting all his accomplishments on the island of St. Helena. It was a discourse about Jesus of Nazareth that Ravi Zacharias believes to be "almost unexcelled by any political leader." To see this most arrogant of men, who reported on the groundlings from a cloud's-eye view, finding himself delicately and softly humbled before Jesus Christ was very inspiring to me:

Marlowe,

There is enough meat in this compelling post, that it might engender a thread of its own. As you may have guessed, I am not as great a fan of General Bonapart as you may be; however, I do find his quotes on religion to be interesting – specifically, of course, the one you mention regarding the facility of religion in the control of the underclass. Here, his tenor is perhaps changed, because General Bonapart, of course, had no choice at that point in his life to be anything but "delicately and softly humbled.

This second quote – which I will admit that I am not unfamiliar with – I regard as a horribly failed military leader's admiration for what he perceived to be a successful military leader – trading his cannons for canons, if you will. I really do not believe that he was attempting a poetic comparison either, given General Bonapart's lack of propensity or ability for such ends.

You cite this as the genesis of your personal christianity, but I must ask, because I am interested to know, if you do concur with General Bonapart that jesus' role was a military one?

Cursed be he that first invented war!

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Well hullo, YinandYang. Welcome to the thread.
I see that, true to your governing motif, you have delivered your message in two testaments. I do hope that you do not mind if reply in one.

The thought of eternity also entered into my journey home to Jesus Christ. I dwelt on the afterlife for a long time. I could not fathom just ceasing to exist after death, or that life was just an accident, or a seemingly impossible and improbable set of circumstances which led to my coming into existance. I believed that there had to be more to it than that, especially when I looked at the scientific statistics for something like the universe coming into being the way it did. If it was in regards to anything else but creation, the incrediblly small probability of it occuring would cause everyone to say that it was, for all intensive purposes, impossble without a higher being, i.e. God to have made it so. But, since it was in regards to creation, many would not admit to this. That to me sounded like an extremely dishonest viewpoint to have. Plus, the arguments made for the complexity of things such as the human eye etc influenced me greatly, and led me toward my belief in God.

Yes. It is very baffling.


I am impelled by an inherent curiosity to ask two questions to specific points from within your … précis … above.

…yet, I could see a side of goodness that somehow could beat evil. Not through a power struggle, but by love and kindness and compassion. I admired greatly those whom I met in my own life, and also those whom I had heard about throughout history, who had done the right thing with their lives. It made me realize that there was more to life than just trying to get as much out of life for oneself as one could. I wanted to live that way myself, even though, at the time, I wasn't sure how to do so."

I suppose that it is my recent travels in the Punjab that lead me to frame my questions in that geographical context. Though I have to say that I do question his ends, the means of Mr. M, Gandhi are an equal dedication to the triumph of "good" – a celebration of passive aggression matchable to that of the Galilean messiah. This leads me to ask, why is it that you choose catholicism over hinduism? To an outsider to both faiths, this seems to have been an arbitrary choice on your behalf. Please explain, so that we may understand.

I studied Catholicism more and more, searching for an answer to my dilemna. I knew that there had to be an answer to the reason for all the evil in the world, and also why goodness could shine forth in spite of this evil, and that there had to be a way I could change and become a great person myself, but that I needed help to do so.//Then finally, the answers slowly began coming to me, through many different people, whether in school, EWTN, my family/friends, or even just strangers. God began to work in my life, despite my stubborness.

You seem to state here that a dogged reading of catholic dogma – in an environment created and governed by the catholic church – led to an acceptance of that faith. Really, how is this different from Stockholm Syndrome?

One might suggest that my second question is not unrelated to the first.

"I cannot tell you how many times He's revealed Himself to me"

Oh dear. I think that you would have your valet to dial 999 in these situations.

I do hope that you find at least this last suggestion to be of some help to you in your times of need and desperation.

Yours truly,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[oi_antz]

Cursed be he that first invented war!

Good sir, I am new to your thread, I will try to be reserved but I can't help joking that you sound very religious in that comment!
It is God who cursed he who first invented war, and it doesn't look like things are going to get better for God's enemy.

There is so much you learn when you become Christian there is no way to just take that knowledge and stamp it onto someone else's consciousness, it is actually a miracle that God Himself (the mighty creator) who comes and one day aligns our knowledge to support the Christian faith. This is called a "rebirth" because after this happens we are a brand new person who hasn't lost anything we had before but we have gained eternal life - a new spiritual understanding of Jesus which grows every day.

Anyhow I'm sure you have heard all this before, but let me know if you have any questions of me, you are indeed the most polite athiest I have read

 

[oi_antz]

Oh, ok the question was how and why I was drawn:

I remember as a child I was one to rescue drowning insects from our pool. One day it resulted in a bee sting and I cried to Mum "why would he do that to me". I guess that's the innocence of a child, but that same attitude has been with me, feeding the goat down the street, keeping flocks of chooks.

So the way I learned about Jesus originated in my family. My Grandmother was very religious, I went to Sunday school each week so got all the bible stories pummled in young. And over time as a young teenager I got pretty rebellious and into trouble with some things I hate to remember, running away from home, drinking on the streets, antichrist, anarchy, heavy metal. I was baptized at 17 years of age and left home at 19 to study and I never established Christian relationships down there instead I was hard-out studying. I think it is typical for this to happen.

Then at age 30 I came to a stage of thought where I was particularly curious about why are we on this earth, is the earth more than a drop of sweat or a fleeting thought to God. Naturally I voiced my opinion on a google buzz thread that was going, then I had an idea: I always knew God, I just haven't met Him yet. So I went to the Christians there and asked for a verse which would prove God to me and that one verse broke me, instantly I changed my mind from arguing against the Bible to arguing for it. That was the rebirth I mentioned before. Everything in the Bible makes perfect sense and it is true! You'll never compute it, no matter how hard you try, it seriously is a gift to know the truth in the Holy Bible.

Praise Jesus and hallelujah brother!

 

[marlowe007]

You cite this as the genesis of your personal christianity, but I must ask, because I am interested to know, if you do concur with General Bonapart that jesus' role was a military one?

I don't know how best to answer this question, so I'll be brief...

Time and again you will find Jesus overtly speaking in military terms; He says things like, "If any man lay a finger on the hair of these little ones, it would be better that a millstone be tied around his neck and thrown in the ocean"...does that sound like a pacifistic attitude? The liberation theologists are partly responsible for this misconception of Christ-as-pacifist.

At any rate, I believe that for the most part His role was spiritual as opposed to political/military. To use a cliche: He was in the soul-saving business.

By the way, I liked the shoehorned reference to Christopher Marlowe.
(which the other poster didn't get)

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

So I went to the Christians there and asked for a verse which would prove God to me and that one verse broke me, instantly I changed my mind from arguing against the Bible to arguing for it.

Right then! Oi,

I see that you also reply in two testaments. For all of your talk of resurrection and rebirth, you christians are truly incorrigible. Haha!

I find the chronology of your narrative a bit confusing at points. Do you say that you were attending a bible college whilst your struggle with christianity persisted and also during your baptism at 17?

I am interested to know what was the verse that "proved" god to you and "broke" you. Is it the same that you currently use in your signature – the John 6:67-68, NLT?

I am pleased to hear that you are doing well – and that politeness is still appreciated.

The Gentleman Atheist