Interesting Facts about Sarah Palin

[BAFRIEND]

More and more it appears to me that political issues have little to do with choices for Presidential Candidates.I'm glad Senator Obama not being a preference can't possibly have anything to do with his race, since he is as much white as he is black.

Just come in and pull the race card against everyone who disagrees with your political candidate of choice, huh ?

I don't like Obama and won't vote for him because he is co-sponsor of the Freedom of Choice Act. Making him complicit in murder because the Catholic Church deems abortion murder.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Oh wait, this not my thread ...

Go ahead and continue .

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Well, you seem to have gone out of your way to argue against voting Republican. Am I in error? If so, I apologize. If not, then what are you saying... ..??



If that is so, than she is merely guilty of naivte'. No third party candidate will ever win. Period. To take a pro-life vote away from McCain is merely to give it to Obama, because any third candidate will lose.

If that is her choice, it is not evil, as voting for Obama is, but it IS.. ..well.. ..dumb.

The stakes are too high to dream of third party candidates. Either Obama or McCain will be the next president. That is a FACT. So, who will you help? If you remove your help from one, you have given help to the other, whether that was your intention or not. That too is a FACT

I don't actually expect the person for whom I vote to win, but if enough people vote "None of the Above" my hope is that eventtually we'll get some better candidate-and a broader range of representation. My state is so, SO Republican...my vote won't help elect Obama. (Though if it did, I'd have an okay conscience about that, despite that not being my motivation for voting as I will).

I have doubts about the validity of Catholics justifying a vote for McCain, as his policies seem to be pretty divorced from Catholic social teaching. I also think the argument of proportionate reason could be applied here, because MCCain is unlikely to make any changes in the availability of abortion, but seems awfully darn likely to me to embroil us in war with Iran, which loss of life I think is in the realm of proportionate reason.

 

[geocajun]

To use your vote to empower a leader who will keep the murder of innocent children legal is sinful. If you can't figure that out, then you're too far gone for me to enlighten

I'd love to have the theological discussion with you, showing you how you're wrong. Please proceed to show me how its sinful.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

I'd love to have the theological discussion with you, showing you how you're wrong. Please proceed to show me how its sinful.

But isn't it just more fun to ignore what the Church teaches and ride around on one's moral high horse? The windmills are just so fearsome!!

 

[geocajun]

But isn't it just more fun to ignore what the Church teaches and ride around on one's moral high horse? The windmills are just so fearsome!!

Can you say that louder? I can't hear you from way up here on my own moral high horse

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Let me finish this paragraph of this book my nose is buried in, shutting out mere, irrelevant mortals....

 

[katholikos]

I have doubts about the validity of Catholics justifying a vote for McCain, as his policies seem to be pretty divorced from Catholic social teaching.....

Name one. And remember - do not confuse methods of reaching a goal with the goal itself.

To illustrate: Many people think that Dems are for the poor, because they support so many government programs. I, on the other hand, feel that governement programs are like the dope-man handing out free dope. People get hooked. Proof? Continuing generations of welfare recipient families, and young girls who actually really believe that the more kids they have the more money they make. That is no exaggeration. That is what the Democrats' welfare state has wrought.

The Republicans believe in a strong economy, more jobs and less government interference. Now, you can argue the methods of obtaining those goals, but the goal is to get everybody off the dope-man's check, and giving everybody the dignity of honest work. That is not at odds with Social Teaching. And need I say that since the welfare state has been established it has cost Trillions and hasn't done a lick of good?

What would you do if you had a son who, after graduating from school, laid on the couch everyday and never tried to get work. You may well excersize a little "tough love" and give him an ultimatum. Yet, when the Republican want to employ a similar tactic, they are accused of being against the poor. That is one reason why I despise the Democrat party and its black leaders who, in fact, do nothing to help the poor and instead perpetuate the poor's sorry state.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Just one? -Shipping jobs overseas so that we can pay laborers and unjust wage.

Have you read the Compendium of Social Doctrine of the Church? If you haven't then I think it's pointless to talk with you about this.

 

[katholikos]

Just one? -Shipping jobs overseas so that we can pay laborers and unjust wage.....

Unjust by whose standards? You see, you are not dealing with fundamentals. You are superimposing American standards on Catholic teaching. This is where you err.

In the countries where those workers live, their wage may well be the norm. And, there is nothing fundamentally "unjust" about international companies putting facilities wherever they want to. Now, if those companies were paying wages BELOW the norm of whatever country their facility is in, that would be one thing. Can you prove this is so? I doubt it. It may offend American sensibilities for American companies to build facilities in other countries, buit that is an entirely different matter, and is none of the Church's business.

Your reasoning is flawed. Pick another one.

Have you read the Compendium of Social Doctrine of the Church? If you haven't then I think it's pointless to talk with you about this

I have read the Complete Catechism, and have owned it since it first came out. I don't go for the dumbed down version. Besides, just because you have read something does not mean you are applying it properly. Many Liberals read the Vatican II documents then twisted them totally out of shape to suit their agendas. (Sound familiar?)

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Two issues: 1.) The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church is not directly related with the CCC.

2.) The Compendium of the Catechism, is hardly a "dumbed down" version, any more than the Batimore Catechism was a "dumbed down" version of the Catechism of Trent.

Ironically, you'd be very rah! rah! about much of the Compendium of Social Doctrine, nice to see you dismiss authoritative Catholic teaching without having read it though...

 

[geocajun]

McCain favors embryonic stem cell research. Killing babies for research. He supports state rights to uphold abortion on demand as well.

McCain also favors gay marriage, and he is opposed to health care as a right. All of these things are at odds with catholic social teaching.

 

[Davidnic]

Name one. And remember - do not confuse methods of reaching a goal with the goal itself.

Well methods of reaching a goal matter. Sharing the goal only matters in the distinction between formal and material and not the other considerations for weighing an action.

Let me start by saying I will likely be writing in my vote or voting for a third party, my rational can be found in other threads. But can you justify McCain's support of the CIA using extra measures in interrogation? Since it opens the door to and has resulted in torture...he is supporting an intrinsic evil by passive cooperation. And as a politician his support is proximate in this matter and not remote.

 

[geocajun]

Well methods of reaching a goal matter.

Absolutely. One can make money by stealing it, or by working for it. The goal of making money is the same in either case.

 

[katholikos]

My apologies. I saw "The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church" and my mind registered "The Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church." I can admit I was wrong. See?

Look lady, I don't want to argue with you. We started off on the abortion issue, and that one gets me red hot. I apologize if I said anything offensive. I do hope you reconsider your vote though.

Let's be friends, alright?

 

[katholikos]

...can you justify McCain's support of the CIA using extra measures in interrogation?....

Probably not. But in the balance of things, the continuing holocaust of abortion by the millions is a far greater evil than interrogating a few terrorists. Sadly, we must prioritize the evils we fight. I never said McCain was "Saint John", but he is far more in line with the pro-life, pro-traditional family values of Catholics than his opponent is.

And your third party vote is just a vote for Obama. You gotta be real about that: No third party candiate will win, and you are just taking away a vote from McCain.

 

[Davidnic]

I have not read through the whole thread. In reference to the OP, I think some of the facts about Sarah Palin are a bit out of context, or can be taken out of context. All in all I like her. If I was going to vote for either of the two main choices her pick would make a difference to me. Full disclosure she is someone I picked in the MSNBC VP bracket a few months ago because I personally liked her on a few issues. So I am going to like the pick. But, it does not change my reservations about either side.

I do admire her personal decision to live what she believes as far as pro-life. And I think that she is perfectly fine as far as qualifications. I do look forward to her debate with Biden. He is one of the Democrats best debaters and she is renowned as one of the best young Republican debaters. If she holds her own with Biden, I think it will go a long way to help her establish her qualifications.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

My apologies. I saw "The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church" and my mind registered "The Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church." I can admit I was wrong. See?

Look lady, I don't want to argue with you. We started off on the abortion issue, and that one gets me red hot. I apologize if I said anything offensive. I do hope you reconsider your vote though.

Let's be friend, alright?

Okay

FTR--I am very, very pro-life (which is why I won't vote for McCain) I had two babies I gave up for adoption. When I don't have a baby of my own(which I have had every other year for a long darn time now) , I work with pregnant teens as a doula. I work at the crisis pregnancy center, and honestly offer to adopt any baby of any mom I know who is considering abortion or to offer them a place to live while they get on their feet.. I work with Project Rachel, and to raise the consciousness of the effects of abotion on the momma. One of my goals is to open a wholistic aproach facility for pregnant young women- which addresses the wounds and scars which facilitated their becoming unintentionally pregnant in the first place. For me being pro-life isn't something I only care about at election time.

 

[Davidnic]

Probably not. But in the balance of things, the continuing holocaust of abortion by the millions is a far greater evil than interrogating a few terrorists. Sadly, we must prioritize the evils we fight. I never said McCain was "Saint John", but he is far more in line with the pro-life, pro-traditional family values of Catholics than his opponent is.

And your third party vote is just a vote for Obama. You gotta be real about that: No third party candiate will win, and you are just taking away a vote from McCain.

First, since we don't know each other. Let me say I am one of the staunchest pro-life people here. I have always stood against abortion and stood for all the issues that are part of our Catholic pro-life ethic.

Intrinsic evil is intrinsic evil...we are not allowed to support them. And there is no prioritizing of intrinsic evils.

Abortion has greater moral weight that many (almost all other sins) because it strikes to the basic dignity of humanity at the foundation and prerequisite right. But when we are talking about the intrinsic evils (and most theologians would argue there are between 25-30 of those) we can not justify one because we eliminate the other. Now some of the intrinsic evils need to be looked at in depth to see if they meet the standard the Church sets for calling them intrinsic evils.

As far as my third party vote. If most Catholics would vote for someone other than the two choices it would help to break both sides using abortion and other life issues as wedge issues. It would show there is support for life that will not compromise on it for the "lesser evil". And that would help change things long term.

So I see my vote, in my own prudential judgment, as my moral decision to try to make a difference long term in getting actual pro-life candidates.

 

[Tigg]

I have not read through the whole thread. In reference to the OP, I think some of the facts about Sarah Palin are a bit out of context, or can be taken out of context. All in all I like her. If I was going to vote for either of the two main choices her pick would make a difference to me. Full disclosure she is someone I picked in the MSNBC VP bracket a few months ago because I personally liked her on a few issues. So I am going to like the pick. But, it does not change my reservations about either side.

I do admire her personal decision to live what she believes as far as pro-life. And I think that she is perfectly fine as far as qualifications. I do look forward to her debate with Biden. He is one of the Democrats best debaters and she is renowned as one of the best young Republican debaters. If she holds her own with Biden, I think it will go a long way to help her establish her qualifications.

Might I humbly agree with you? I am, at first brush, impressed by Palin. A change and a breathe of fresh air. Makes me smile (hunts caribou and shots a what was it? Lol) and I am impressed with her record so far presented. I hope fervently, that neither VP will be necessary.

Now the tearing apart is already underway. God help us all in our voting this year.

-Peace-