Inconsistency Amongst Our Clergy/Hierarchs

[katherine2001]

Also, we focus on homosexuality while totally ignoring fornication and adultery, and these sins are on the same list as homosexuality, so evidently Paul thought they were as bad. Are we willing to ignore those because they hit too close to home? Read these forums and see how many Christian young people see absolutely nothing wrong with having sex outside of marriage and do it often. How many people even on this forum have admitted to the same? We are much more willing to be gentle with them, while we want to hit homosexuals over the head (and unfortunately, some will literally do that). Why are we so inconsistent about them? We tend to be much stricter with people who struggle with sins that we don't.

 

[ArmyMatt]

what Inga does is her spiritual father or bishop's responsibility, and unless any of us on here are, it's not ours to spout off about. as someone earlier said, write the bishop. she is not even on here to give an account, no matter how unorthodox it may be.

doing something like that on a net thread really does nothing except get certain folks all worked up for no reason.

 

[buzuxi02]

Katherine where is this happening??? Ive never heard anyone say the Church should change its teaching on premarital sex. I've never heard of such a lobby or FB group to ever espouse such a thing. On the other hand the synod of cowards of the OCA dare not reprimand that supposed retired archbishop who does promote homosexuality who is in the midst of them.

 

[truefiction1]

Also, we focus on homosexuality while totally ignoring fornication and adultery, and these sins are on the same list as homosexuality, so evidently Paul thought they were as bad. Are we willing to ignore those because they hit too close to home? Read these forums and see how many Christian young people see absolutely nothing wrong with having sex outside of marriage and do it often. How many people even on this forum have admitted to the same? We are much more willing to be gentle with them, while we want to hit homosexuals over the head (and unfortunately, some will literally do that). Why are we so inconsistent about them? We tend to be much stricter with people who struggle with sins that we don't.

This would be because much of the ongoing bashing of homosexuals is from the same psychological mechanism that causes racism. If bishops speak out against racism more vehemently than against homosexuality it is because they're wise, not because they are inconsistent. Such bishops know how to correctly apply the lesson of Christ's dealings with the harlot who was about to be stoned and the crowd who wished to stone her.

 

[ArmyMatt]

synod of cowards of the OCA

you mean like the synod of cowards of the Greek Archdiocese who haven't done anything about Frank Schaeffer, or if they have, it took them waaay to much time (sarcasm implied, I don't consider any of our heirarchs to be cowards)? let's not hand out that kind of judgment please.

 

[truefiction1]

"Bishops are correct to speak out against the practice of "negative projection", whether it is against particular human races or against homosexuals. And if they use any authority that they may have to discipline members of the Church accordingly, then so be it"

You're missing the point, please read again the original post:

I'm not missing the point. I merely answered it in a way you didn't expect. All this focus on the evils of homosexuality is not a good thing. It is actually caused by the same psychological mechanism that underlies racism. Most bishops are wise enough to understand that this is the case, which is why they speak out against racism more vehemently than they do against homosexuality. They are not being inconsistent, they are "rightly dividing the word of Truth" as is their prerogative as leaders within the Church.

 

[buzuxi02]

you mean like the synod of cowards of the Greek Archdiocese who haven't done anything about Frank Schaeffer, or if they have, it took them waaay to much time (sarcasm implied, I don't consider any of our heirarchs to be cowards)? let's not hand out that kind of judgment please.

Correct.

 

[rusmeister]

I'll just say that schooling isn't education at all. We get education from every facet of life, especially family life. It can be good, or bad.

But yeah, it really bothers me when people supposedly baptized/chrismated Orthodox begin talking as if the teachings of the Church on sexual morality are optional and hierarchs do not correct them.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don't think anyone here thinks that education only comes from schooling be it public, private, or home. That would be nuts. When we refer to education, academically speaking in one dimension of our education, we're talking about schooling earlier.

When I read topics like this an hear liberal mumbo-jumbo, I think, "Oh God! Say not so! Don't let us turn into the Episcopal Church!"

I'll just say that schooling isn't education at all. We get educatin from every facet of life, especially family life. It can be good, or bad.

But yeah, it really bothers me when people supposedly baptized/chrismated Orthodox begin talking as if the teachings of the Church on sexual morality are optional and hierarchs do not correct them.

 

[rusmeister]

"Oh God! Say not so! Don't let us turn into the Episcopal Church!"

Lord, save us and have mercy on us! (3rd tone) (Cross 3x)

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No, in this case, cross 200x! LOL

Lord, save us and have mercy on us! (3rd tone) (Cross 3x)

 

[ArmyMatt]

Correct.

knowing some of them personally, I disagree and am in no place to pronounce that kind of judgment on a heirarch of the Church. especially to call any of them a coward.

 

[Damaris]

Why is it that when someone with white supremacy/nationalistic beliefs get excommunicated (not that I necessarily disagree with that decision) for speaking publicly on a topic that could be considered going against the teachings of the Church, but...

People like Inga Leonova et al are allowed to speak publicly on a topic that is very much against the teachings of the Church, namely homosexual actions without any consequences?

Why this inconsistency from our clergy/hierarchs?

Since there are people here who are not familiar with Inga Leonova, she is a woman who attends the OCA cathedral in Boston, and she holds some opinions that are at variance with Orthodox teaching on several subjects, including but not limited to homosexuality.

Leonova has refused repeated efforts to correct her estrangement from Orthodox teaching. She has caused some concern with those beliefs and the way she expresses them. My own particular concern with Leonova is that she seems to assume a kind of teaching authority, an authority that she is both manifestly unqualified for, and has never been extended to her.

I can see why some would think there is not a valid comparison between Leonova and Heimbach since Leonova does not resort to physical violence. I can also see why some would think that there is a valid comparison, since they both make an effort to associate Orthodox Christianity with ideas that are antithetical to it, and use some blistering rhetoric to do it.

I hope that helps. I tried to make this as charitable as possible in order to answer the questions without sparking discord.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Indeed. Sometimes the Lord calls us to silence. No different with his hierarchs. Sometimes perhaps the Lord wants them to stay silent on something and focus on other issues. We just don't know God's will. What I DO know is that I sure wouldn't want to have to be a bishop or patriarch!

There's a reason we pray "again and again" for our patriarchs and bishops at the Divine Liturgy! They're under constant diabolical attack. They're "high value targets" in Satan's eyes. We need to pray for them and wish them the best, and be patient when they do screw up.

knowing some of them personally, I disagree and am in no place to pronounce that kind of judgment on a heirarch of the Church. especially to call any of them a coward.

 

[GregConstantine]

"Leonova has refused repeated efforts to correct her estrangement from Orthodox teaching. She has caused some concern with those beliefs and the way she expresses them. My own particular concern with Leonova is that she seems to assume a kind of teaching authority, an authority that she is both manifestly unqualified for, and has never been extended to her."

Indeed. The thing that is the issue with her and with Matt Hembeich, is that both are publicly influencing/teaching, etc others their heresy. Once you start doing that, you make it a public issue, so Matt, sorry, but if Leonova wanted this to stay between her and her father confessor, she should have kept it between her and him, but she didn't, she has taken it publicly, just as Matt Hembeich has, and like Matt H, has attempted/is attempting to influence our youth to adapt their heresy.

Sorry guys, but to the both of them, that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated, especially when they are attempting to influence our youth.

I tell you what, both Leonova and Matt H better not come within 10 feet of the OCF in the DC/Baltimore area.

And yes, this is going to be brought to the attention of at least our local hierarchs to begin with, because Matt H is saying he wants to start chapters of his traditional youth organization and label them "Orthodox" at colleges in the DC/Baltimore area that already have OCF chapters. While Matt H is being discussed, Leonova will be discussed with the hierarchs too.

 

[buzuxi02]

I've never heard of this leonova. Is this person simply vocal in parish Council meetings, or does she have clout with the media or through some organization ???

That retired fellow up north has his title and monastery and publishing arm to disseminate heresy, I just want to make sure it's not some quack with no following.

 

[gzt]

Greg - um, what? You're not making any sense at all. Again, let me know if Leonova appears on Nightline or beats somebody up.

anyway, as for Matt H, they posted an announcement that they're on sabbatical from Trad Youth until they sort some things out. Hopefully, they will. And hopefully they will realize that, despite its opposition to the racialist goals of "Trad Youth", the Orthodox Church is not "anti-White".

 

[Damaris]

I've never heard of this leonova. Is this person simply vocal in parish Council meetings, or does she have clout with the media or through some organization ???

That retired fellow up north has his title and monastery and publishing arm to disseminate heresy, I just want to make sure it's not some quack with no following.

Leonova has been allowed to serve on the diocesan council of the OCA's Diocese of New England, and has had her articles published on the OCA youth blog. She may not have gotten on Nightline, yet, but she has been taken to represent the Orthodox faith in public settings.

 

[jckstraw72]

1. Buzuxi - just for clarity - the OCA Synod has told good ol' Abp. Lazar to stop teaching on some matters. We could question whether this is enough, but I do know that at least something has been done. Although, we know that he has ignored such Synodal warnings in the past.

2. I think it's great that Greg is speaking out. He has legitimate concerns and actually wants to do something about them. Coming to his brothers and sisters for counsel is not a bad thing, methinks ...

 

[buzuxi02]

1. Buzuxi - just for clarity - the OCA Synod has told good ol' Abp. Lazar to stop teaching on some matters. We could question whether this is enough, but I do know that at least something has been done. Although, we know that he has ignored such Synodal warnings in the past.

Thank-you Jck for the info. I apologize to any bishop I may have offended, and to Matt and any other OCA parishioner I may have offended.


2

. I think it's great that Greg is speaking out. He has legitimate concerns and actually wants to do something about them. Coming to his brothers and sisters for counsel is not a bad thing, methinks ...

Yeah I have to give him props, usually at his age the last thing on ones mine is a Christian campus ministry.