In metaphor to king Solomon's temple

[rockytopva]

I have read my bible through seven times from cover to cover. I have also read many historical books from the Virginia Tech library. One of the most interesting figures I have read about was in the person of William Seymour, the architect of the Pentecostal revival. William Seymour designs this doctrine, makes himself Bishop of this movement, and the Holy Spirit falls...

"They shouted three days and three nights. It was Easter season. The people came from everywhere. By the next morning there was no way of getting near the house. As people came in they would fall under God's power; and the whole city was stirred. They shouted until the foundation of the house gave way, but no one was hurt."

The Holy Spirit reportedly fell in 1906 at Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles, CA. Smith Wigglesworth testified of receiving it in 1907. This is a revival that spread very fast around the world!

One of the problems is that nobody recognized William Seymour as 'Bishop' and to complicate matters was a split over the issues of sanctification. William Seymour never did go any further after the Azusa Street revival. The Pentecostal revival quickly encompassed the world... But without William Seymour!

One of the most interesting outcomes that I have read on the man is that he designed his doctrine in metaphor to King Solomons temple. As this doctrine died with William Seymour this is not something I teach, and I know of no one who teaches this, but present this as 'cold pizza' from an earlier time and something that you may find interesting. I also am interested in your responses as you guys are heavy in what we call the old testament.

1. The Outer Court - Justification - Faith to enter in.
2. The Altar - Salvation through the cross at Calvary.
3. The Laver - The clean effects of sanctification.
4. Table of Showbread – Daily into the word of God
5. Light at the Lightstand - Faith, hope, charity, joy, grace, love, warmth, etc. With sanctification came a sweet spirit!
6. The Golden Incense Alter - Prayer and Praise meetings.
7. The Holy of Holies - The Shekinah Glory and Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

 

[ContraMundum]

Seymour didn't come up with that doctrine. You'll find it in American holiness preachers and in second and third generation Methodists as well. Lots of stuff like that over at www.enterhisrest.org

 

[rockytopva]

Yes... That is word for word correct. It is Wesleyan doctrine. Part of the problems with the old holiness doctrine is on the teachings of sanctification. I have met many holiness people who claim sanctification but have not the sweet spirit. These folks tend to drive away more people to Christ than they win. Pentecostal revivals only tend to last a few years, which is unfortunate. I blame this on mans desire to live his life in the flesh. This even took its toll on Seymours revival...

"The biggest blow to Seymour's authority in the later movement, however, was the split between Seymour and William Durham. During one of Seymour's revival tours in 1911, he asked Durham if he would serve as the visiting preacher; he agreed, but his more extreme views on sanctification caused a schism in the budding Pentecostal church. Seymour was asked to return to Azusa immediately, while his wife Jennie padlocked Durham out of the mission. Durham began to attack Seymour publicly, launching an extreme polemic by claiming that Seymour was no longer following the will of God and was not fit to be a leader, devastating Seymour. Even after Durham's sudden death in 1912, the Pentecostal community in Los Angeles remained split." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Seymour

The neat thing though is Seymour's blueprint using the temple. I have never seen or read anything like that before.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Give this a listen for another perspective:

http://www.bethimmanuel.org/audio/protos-and-deuteros

 

[rockytopva]

Give this a listen for another perspective: http://www.bethimmanuel.org/audio/protos-and-deuteros

The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. - Psalm 19:7

Listening in, thanks.

 

[AbbaLove]

I have read my Bible through seven times from cover to cover. I have also read many historical books from the Virginia Tech library. One of the most interesting figures I have read about was in the person of William Seymour, the architect of the Pentecostal revival. William Seymour designs this doctrine, makes himself Bishop of this movement, and the Holy Spirit falls...

The problem with reading secular historical books is being indoctrinated with language such as ... "the architect of the Pentecostal revival ... William Seymour designs this doctrine ... Bishop of this movement." Sounds like the kind of wording used by a religious professor with several doctorate degrees that's invited to enlighten us all on Bill Moyers Journal.

Such wording is even typical of that in a religious studies college class ... assuming they still include Christianity. Some secondary school libraries have gone so far as to remove the Bible, but they have more than enough books about the religions of the world. Can indoctrinate young impressionable minds into thinking that extreme Islam is no better or worse than extreme Christianity. Ahhh, so the secular world defines fundamental Christianity as a negative?

So, you've read the Bible through seven times and as a Pentecostal may even speak in an unknown tongue. What about your Love Walk?

 

[rockytopva]

So, you've read the Bible through seven times and as a Pentecostal may even speak in an unknown tongue. What about your Love Walk?

Well, I take great delight in the Word of God, and those who have the ability to bring the Old Testament alive. My favorite preacher is RW Schambach. I have a web site in which I have a lot of RW Schambach. I have one sermon of his preached in a Jewish Synagogue, which I find incredible. The thing I like about the guy is that he set up his tent in the worst part of town and had revival.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. - 1 Corinthians 13:1

Yes, and you can speak in tongues and have not a stitch of love. William Seymour himself said...

“Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in." - William Seymour

And Smith Wigglesworth said that...

“The gift of discernment is not criticism. I am satisfied that in Pentecostal circles today, our paramount need is more perfect love. I have found many notable people in the world whom I know personally, who have gotten to running another person down and finding fault. They are always fault finding and judging people outright. God save us from criticism! When we are pure in heart we only think about pure things!” – Smith Wigglesworth

So I am not into the fault finding. I do show love but if I were to boast about it then it would not be love.

 

[AbbaLove]

“The gift of discernment is not criticism." – Smith Wigglesworth

Do you disagree regarding my previous discernment ? ...

The problem with reading secular historical books is being indoctrinated with language such as ... "the architect of the Pentecostal revival ... William Seymour designs this doctrine ... Bishop of this movement." Sounds like the kind of wording used by a religious professor with several doctorate degrees that's invited to enlighten us all on Bill Moyers Journal.​

I stated this because I believe the Holy Spirit is the architect and Seymour is a servant of God. Have you ever read "God Is My Co-Pilot" ? The title might better be "God Is My Pilot, i'm the co-pilot."

How does one know who has the "Gift of Discernment" if that discerning is partially based on one's own understanding? So for example you display a "Pentecostal" faith icon. However, you should know that displaying a "Messianic" faith icon should not be construed or interpreted as meaning a "Messianic" is a cessationist. For example i wish more Messianics spoke favorable words about Sid Roth, his Messianic Vision ministry and his It's Supernatural TV program that's broadcast worldwide. Also, I think highly of the late Kenneth Hagin, Sr. as well as Smith Wigglesworth.

A Most Joyous Thanksgiving to You and Yours

 

[rockytopva]

Yes... You are correct AbbaLove... I am not here to promote the man but find his doctrine interesting. I also enjoy the writings of Smith Wigglesworth and have a half a dozen books of him in my library. I have not read the "God Is My Co-Pilot" book, but may look that one up.

[edit] Apparently Smith Wigglesworth did not write "God Is My Co-Pilot" but another author. Who wrote that one? Thanks

 

[AbbaLove]

[edit] Apparently Smith Wigglesworth did not write "God Is My Co-Pilot" but another author. Who wrote that one? Thanks

I read it over 50+ years ago as a teenager when i was a nominal Methodist ... only saw G-d as my co-pilot when i couldn't fly on my own, which to my way of thinnking way back then, wasn't very often. I wasn't a rascal ... more like a good Lutheran.

"Men may call me a knave, a fool, a rascal, a scoundrel, and I am content..." - John Wesley
​

Thanks for sharing the illustration of his doctrine as a metaphor to King Solomon's Temple. Hopefully, more Pentecostals are seeing their connection to the Hebrew/Jewish Root/Branch of Messianic Christianity. Hopefully SLB (Pentecostal) will soon bridge the gap, but so far Jimmy, Donnie and Gabriel still have a ways to go.

 

[AbbaLove]

Opps! ... double post (deleted)

 

[rockytopva]

I read it over 50+ years ago as a teenager when i was a nominal Methodist ... only saw G-d as my co-pilot when i couldn't fly on my own, which to my way of thinnking way back then, wasn't very often. I wasn't a rascal ... more like a good Lutheran.

"Men may call me a knave, a fool, a rascal, a scoundrel, and I am content..." - John Wesley
​

Thanks for sharing the illustration of his doctrine as a metaphor to King Solomon's Temple. Hopefully, more Pentecostals are seeing their connection to the Jewish Roots of Messianic Christianity. Hopefully SLB (Pentecostal) will soon bridge the gap, but so far Jimmy, Donnie and Gabriel still have a ways to go.

Let brotherly love continue. - Hebrews 13:1

Thank you Ms AbbaLove! And may God bless you!

 

[rockytopva]

A Path to Caritas (Latin for love in the purest form)... Things that cannot be taught for virtue is not knowledge!

1. Hope - All things begin with a hope
2. Faith - Motivation is a child of faith and hope
3. Charis - Grace - A powerful neighbor of caritas
4. Dynamos - Greek for virtue and motivation
5. Eucharisteo - Much grace... Gratitude
6. Charisomai - Well favored - A lucky kind of feeling
7. Euchrestos - Greek for profitable
8. Chairo - Greek for cheer - "Cheerio mate!"
9. Chara - Greek for joy
10. Chrestotes - An 'Aunt Bee' kind of Goodness
11. Charisma - Heavenly Graciousness
12. Chrisma - Heavenly Anointing - The Holy Grail!

It is my belief that the precious anointing of the Holy Spirit is picked up in the Holy of Holies. If I had a word for today's Pentecostal it would be that the anointing is not the ego! Too many have came out of the seminary with a tremendous ego and have caused more harm than good.

 

[AbbaLove]

It is my belief that the precious anointing of the Holy Spirit is picked up in the Holy of Holies. If I had a word for today's Pentecostal it would be that the anointing is not the ego! Too many have come out of the seminary with a tremendous ego and have caused more harm than good.

They aren't by any means King of the Hill. One reason Messianic Judaism grew out of the 60s and 70s is because of this problem within all of Christendom. That's one reason why I often refer to Lutherans as basically good people (as people go), if you discern what i mean. That said there may be as many blind Pentecostals as blind Lutherans. OK, agreed that now i'm reaching

Edit: Opps a Daisy! ... meant to say there may be as many blind Pentecostals as blind Lutherans not the other way around as first posted ... please give me some slack as i'm 71 years young. Also i'm not a Ms nor have i ever wished i was.

 

[rockytopva]

Speaking of the seventies Star Wars was a brainchild of a Lutheran. And we had many a good Pentecostals. I think there will be issues with us all as long as we are in the flesh.

 

[AbbaLove]

Speaking of the seventies Star Wars was a brainchild of a Lutheran. And we had many a good Pentecostals. I think there will be issues with us all as long as we are in the flesh.

There's always at least two sides to every humanitarian outreach. We adopted our son when he was a little baby through Lutheran Social Services ... couldn't have been more blessed. Waited 3 years before a baby was available and 40 years ago there weren't anywhere near the abortions as today. Last year, or maybe the year before, there were supposedly 16,000 abortions in Minnesota. Thanks to organizations like Lutheran Social Services many young Lutheran women had enough sense not to get an abortion. On the other hand the reason Minnesota has such a large Somalian population is because of Lutheran Social Services that sponsored many of the first Somalians. I've been told by a very knowledgeable source that the FBI is more concerned about keeping tabs on potential terrorists in Minnesota than any other state.

 

[rockytopva]

AbbaLove... Christ would be proud. I followed Jimmy Swaggert back before all the trouble and loved the song, "Let your love flow through me!"