If I were the Devil - from 1965

[NightHawkeye]

[/indent]Right...because that prophecy was totally talking about communism...

Ahh ... thanks for asking for background info.

Come ... look, see ...

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,

noun /ˈskärlit/ 

1. A brilliant red color scarlet - Google Search

full of names of blasphemy, ...
​

How about ... People's Democratic Republic ... now, there's an oxymoron.

having seven heads and ten horns.
​

Consider this ... the Soviet Bloc (Warsaw Pact) was a ten-headed beast:
1 USSR
2 Poland
3 East Germany
4 Czechoslovakia
5 Hungary
6 Romania
7 Bulgaria

The seven above were the official members of the Soviet Bloc Eastern Bloc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

8 Lithuania
9 Estonia
10 Latvia

These three Baltic nations were under subjugation - in defiance of international law: Occupation of the Baltic states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
​

Moscow has long been one of the prominent suspects here.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
​

1 USSR
2 Poland
3 East Germany
4 Czechoslovakia
5 Hungary
6 Romania
7 Bulgaria

But, ten horns:
8 Lithuania
9 Estonia
10 Latvia

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,
​

Sounds kinda like Russia/USSR so far ...

and go into perdition:
​

Or the dustbin of history ...

and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
​

Wait a minute ... what does that mean "names not written in the book of life"? Oh ... those who don't know God ... atheists and their ilk ... kinda like many Marxists, communists, secular socialists, etc.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
​

Let's see, in scripture ... mountain == nation.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
​

Now, consider that the Soviet Union had seven leaders:
- Lenin
- Stalin
- Kruschev
- Brezhnev
- Andropov
- Chernenko
- Gorbachev

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
​

- Putin - World leader but not really of USSR, just Russia. Yet, he was KGB in Soviet Union. Again, it fits ...

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
​

That makes no sense ... "received no kingdom, but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" ... what???

Whoa ... weren't the puppet regimes in the Warsaw pact just given power? all of a sudden ... sure are a lot of conicidences here ... who knew?

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
​

Did any have a choice? Yes ... premier ... as you wish.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
​

Hmm ... didn't that right-wing religious nut, Ronald Reagan take down the Soviet Union? ... or, was that the Roman Catholic Church in Poland? Hmm ...

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
​

Ouch ...

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
​

That doesn't sound good ...

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
​

 

[disciple2011]

Ahh ... thanks for asking for background info.

Come ... look, see ...

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,

noun /ˈskärlit/ 

1. A brilliant red color scarlet - Google Search

full of names of blasphemy, ...
​

How about ... People's Democratic Republic ... now, there's an oxymoron.

having seven heads and ten horns.
​

Consider this ... the Soviet Bloc (Warsaw Pact) was a ten-headed beast:
1 USSR
2 Poland
3 East Germany
4 Czechoslovakia
5 Hungary
6 Romania
7 Bulgaria

The seven above were the official members of the Soviet Bloc Eastern Bloc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

8 Lithuania
9 Estonia
10 Latvia

These three Baltic nations were under subjugation - in defiance of international law: Occupation of the Baltic states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
​

Moscow has long been one of the prominent suspects here.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
​

1 USSR
2 Poland
3 East Germany
4 Czechoslovakia
5 Hungary
6 Romania
7 Bulgaria

But, ten horns:
8 Lithuania
9 Estonia
10 Latvia

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,
​

Sounds kinda like Russia/USSR so far ...

and go into perdition:
​

Or the dustbin of history ...

and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
​

Wait a minute ... what does that mean "names not written in the book of life"? Oh ... those who don't know God ... atheists and their ilk ... kinda like many Marxists, communists, secular socialists, etc.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
​

Let's see, in scripture ... mountain == nation.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
​

Now, consider that the Soviet Union had seven leaders:
- Lenin
- Stalin
- Kruschev
- Brezhnev
- Andropov
- Chernenko
- Gorbachev

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
​

- Putin - World leader but not really of USSR, just Russia. Yet, he was KGB in Soviet Union. Again, it fits ...

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
​

That makes no sense ... "received no kingdom, but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" ... what???

Whoa ... weren't the puppet regimes in the Warsaw pact just given power? all of a sudden ... sure are a lot of conicidences here ... who knew?

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
​

Did any have a choice? Yes ... premier ... as you wish.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
​

Hmm ... didn't that right-wing religious nut, Ronald Reagan take down the Soviet Union? ... or, was that the Roman Catholic Church in Poland? Hmm ...

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
​

Ouch ...

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
​

That doesn't sound good ...

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
​

1. They were not communist
2. That pact is now dissolved
3. They never achieved any of the things in Revelation nor in Daniel

Ergo NOT the beast of prophecy.

Maybe you could claim they are a glimpse of what will come in that prophecy, but they did not fulfill it.

That is the problem with prophecy. It is so vague you can easily make any situation fit what you want. I remember many an end timer saying that the EU was the beast and others say that the Anti-Christ will come from China.

All whistling in the dark.

 

[NightHawkeye]

1. They were not communist
2. That pact is now dissolved
3. They never achieved any of the things in Revelation nor in Daniel

Ergo NOT the beast of prophecy.

Maybe you could claim they are a glimpse of what will come in that prophecy, but they did not fulfill it.

That is the problem with prophecy. It is so vague you can easily make any situation fit what you want. I remember many an end timer saying that the EU was the beast and others say that the Anti-Christ will come from China.

All whistling in the dark.

LOL ... but you're not Christian ... so you haven't studied any of this, disciple. You're just throwing out a blanket denunciation.

As for vague ... not so much ...

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Ahh ... thanks for asking for background info.

Come ... look, see ...

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,

noun /ˈskärlit/ 

1. A brilliant red color scarlet - Google Search

full of names of blasphemy, ...
​

How about ... People's Democratic Republic ... now, there's an oxymoron.

having seven heads and ten horns.
​

Consider this ... the Soviet Bloc (Warsaw Pact) was a ten-headed beast:
1 USSR
2 Poland
3 East Germany
4 Czechoslovakia
5 Hungary
6 Romania
7 Bulgaria

The seven above were the official members of the Soviet Bloc Eastern Bloc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

8 Lithuania
9 Estonia
10 Latvia

These three Baltic nations were under subjugation - in defiance of international law: Occupation of the Baltic states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
​

Moscow has long been one of the prominent suspects here.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
​

1 USSR
2 Poland
3 East Germany
4 Czechoslovakia
5 Hungary
6 Romania
7 Bulgaria

But, ten horns:
8 Lithuania
9 Estonia
10 Latvia

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,
​

Sounds kinda like Russia/USSR so far ...

and go into perdition:
​

Or the dustbin of history ...

and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
​

Wait a minute ... what does that mean "names not written in the book of life"? Oh ... those who don't know God ... atheists and their ilk ... kinda like many Marxists, communists, secular socialists, etc.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
​

Let's see, in scripture ... mountain == nation.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
​

Now, consider that the Soviet Union had seven leaders:
- Lenin
- Stalin
- Kruschev
- Brezhnev
- Andropov
- Chernenko
- Gorbachev

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
​

- Putin - World leader but not really of USSR, just Russia. Yet, he was KGB in Soviet Union. Again, it fits ...

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
​

That makes no sense ... "received no kingdom, but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" ... what???

Whoa ... weren't the puppet regimes in the Warsaw pact just given power? all of a sudden ... sure are a lot of conicidences here ... who knew?

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
​

Did any have a choice? Yes ... premier ... as you wish.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
​

Hmm ... didn't that right-wing religious nut, Ronald Reagan take down the Soviet Union? ... or, was that the Roman Catholic Church in Poland? Hmm ...

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
​

Ouch ...

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
​

That doesn't sound good ...

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
​

Look, I get where you're coming from, Hawk. You've found a convincing case that would show the USSR i.e. communism (which wasn't true communism, btw) is this great dragon of scriptural prophecy. I get that. Believe it or not, I was a trusted source in my town and church for interpreting End Times prophecy and was even given teaching positions over adults when I was just in junior high school.

So believe me when I say I know this stuff. The problem is, you can take just about any 50-100 year period in history since those prophecies were written and you could find plenty more cases where it seems to be a perfect fit.

Believe it or not, some believed Ronald Reagan was the antichrist because his first, middle, and last name all had six letters - 666.

The point is prophecy is left deliberately vague like that. All prophecy, throughout human history. It is NEVER clear.

 

[keith99]

Look, I get where you're coming from, Hawk. You've found a convincing case that would show the USSR i.e. communism (which wasn't true communism, btw) is this great dragon of scriptural prophecy. I get that. Believe it or not, I was a trusted source in my town and church for interpreting End Times prophecy and was even given teaching positions over adults when I was just in junior high school.

So believe me when I say I know this stuff. The problem is, you can take just about any 50-100 year period in history since those prophecies were written and you could find plenty more cases where it seems to be a perfect fit.

Believe it or not, some believed Ronald Reagan was the antichrist because his first, middle, and last name all had six letters - 666.

The point is prophecy is left deliberately vague like that. All prophecy, throughout human history. It is NEVER clear.

I would not say never. Some of the reported historic prophecies were pretty clear after the fact.

Beware the Ides of March
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts
If the OT is accurate the interpertation of the Pharoh's dream was very specific.
The greek Prophecy regarding the outcome of the battle with Persian Forces that took place at Thermoplae was pretty specific (though reports differ on some details).

Buit when it comes to matching of numbers, where very likely the number is more important for it's symbolic meaning is just nuts.

But heck 90% of those dealing with end times prophecy cannot even get the name of the most cited book right. At least in America.

 

[NightHawkeye]

But heck 90% of those dealing with end times prophecy cannot even get the name of the most cited book right. At least in America.

You speak of an "s", yes?

Note how I cleverly avoided that by abbreviating Revelation.

 

[Theofane]

If I were the devil I'd try to mince religion with something very dirty, something that would tarnish it for eternity, something that it could never come away clean from.........politics.

Looks like the devil beat me to it.

Was there ever a time or a place anywhere on this earth when religion was not tainted with politics?

 

[conamer]

Was there ever a time or a place anywhere on this earth when religion was not tainted with politics?

Yes, when Jesus spoke against "religion" during His ministry.

 

[Wayte]

So basically, if he were the devil, he'd fulfill the convenient ultimate evil gig so good Christian boys and girls could blame changes in society on him. Then pretend refusing progress gives them a moral high ground.

So basically what the devil has always done. got it.

 

[NightHawkeye]

So basically, if he were the devil, he'd fulfill the convenient ultimate evil gig so good Christian boys and girls could blame changes in society on him.

Exactly in accordance with prophecy, Wayte.

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
​

There are only four such instances of red in the entire Bible. I posted the other two from Revelation already. This is the third. The fourth instance is in the Zechariah prophecies and overlaps with these as well.

As for the changes in society, and the ultimate evil gig, there is this about the red dragon:

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
​

Then pretend refusing progress gives them a moral high ground.

The devil always claims the high moral ground, Wayte ... as can be seen in the preceding Revelation verses ... just like Marxism, for the common good ...

The difficult part seems to be choosing good over evil. There is this hint though:

Deuteronomy 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
​

So basically what the devil has always done. got it.

Pretty much ...

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

The devil always claims the high moral ground, Wayte ... as can be seen in the preceding Revelation verses ... just like Marxism, for the common good ...

Well, hold on. With that logic, couldn't we also say that American Christians could be just as likely to be this big devilish red dragon guy in the prophecies?

After all, American Christians claim the high moral ground more than any other group I've ever seen.

 

[rambot]

What a jaded perspective, Rambot.

I had to giggle when I am called jaded for pointing out an obvious truth to an article as dark and jaded in perspective as the OP.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Well, hold on. With that logic, couldn't we also say that American Christians could be just as likely to be this big devilish red dragon guy in the prophecies?

After all, American Christians claim the high moral ground more than any other group I've ever seen.

Let's explore that then. On the one hand a government, the USSR, that denounces God while simultaneously claiming the high moral ground ... power to the people - for the common good ... while piling up bodies by the tens of millions. On the other hand ... a few aberrant groups, such as the Westboro Baptist Church, which engage in ugly protest activities ... without actually killing anyone.

Not sure what conclusion you come to, CurlyFries, but it kinda seems like a no-brainer to me. But, if ya still have doubt, take a look at this ...

Rev 12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
​

Christians have the testimony of Jesus Christ. That association is explicitly made with the woman here. Who though is the man-child here?

 

[keith99]

Let me see, the Dragon is the USSR. That would have to make the U.S.A. the angels. But who is Michael? Ronald Reagan?

Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.

Got mit uns.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Let me see, the Dragon is the USSR. That would have to make the U.S.A. the angels. But who is Michael? Ronald Reagan?

Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.

Got mit uns.

Great question, Keith. Who was it that brought down the curtain on the Soviet Union?

Consider this: Mikhail Gorbachev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gorbachev's attempts at reform as well as summit conferences with United States President Ronald Reagan and his reorientation of Soviet strategic aims contributed to the end of the Cold War, ended the political supremacy of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), and led to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. For these efforts, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 and the Harvey Prize in 1992 as well as Honorary Doctorates from Durham University in 1995, Trinity College in 2002 and University of Münster in 2005, and Eureka College in 2009.
​

Michael Gorbachev ... truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

Perestroika
Gorbachev initiated his new policy of perestroika and its attendant radical reforms in 1986; they were sketched, but not fully spelled out, at the XXVIIth Party Congress in February–March 1986. The new policy of "reconstruction" was introduced in an attempt to overcome the economic stagnation by creating a dependable and effective mechanism for accelerating economic and social progress.

According to Gorbachev, perestroika was the "conference of development of democracy, socialist self-government, encouragement of initiative and creative endeavor, improved order and disciple, more glasnost, criticism and self-criticism in all spheres of our society. It is utmost respect for the individual and consideration for personal dignity."

Domestic changes continued apace. In a bombshell speech during Armenian SSR's Central Committee Plenum of the Communist Party, the young First Secretary of Armenia's Hrazdan Regional Communist Party, Hayk Kotanjian, criticised rampant corruption in the Armenian Communist Party's highest echelons, implicating Armenian SSR Communist Party First Secretary Karen Demirchyan and calling for his resignation. Symbolically, intellectual Andrei Sakharov was invited to return to Moscow by Gorbachev in December 1986 after six years of internal exile in Gorky. During the same month, however, signs of the nationalities problem that would haunt the later years of the Soviet Union surfaced as riots, named Jeltoqsan, occurred in Kazakhstan after Dinmukhamed Kunayev was replaced as First Secretary of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan.
The Central Committee Plenum in January 1987 would see the crystallisation of Gorbachev's political reforms, including proposals for multi-candidate elections and the appointment of non-Party members to government positions. He also first raised the idea of expanding co-operatives at the plenum. Economic reforms took up much of the rest of 1987, as a new law giving enterprises more independence was passed in June and Gorbachev released a book, Perestroika: New Thinking for Our Country and the World, in November, elucidating his main ideas for reform. In 1987 he rehabilitated many opponents of Joseph Stalin, another part of the De-Stalinization, which began in 1956, when Lenin's Testament was published.

Glasnost
Gorbachev with Erich Honecker, East Germany.1988 would see Gorbachev's introduction of glasnost, which gave new freedoms to the Soviet people, including greater freedom of speech. This was a radical change, as control of speech and suppression of government criticism had previously been a central part of the Soviet system. The press became far less controlled, and thousands of political prisoners and many dissidents were released. Gorbachev's goal in undertaking glasnost was to pressure conservatives within the CPSU who opposed his policies of economic restructuring, and he also hoped that through different ranges of openness, debate and participation, the Soviet people would support his reform initiatives. At the same time, he opened himself and his reforms up for more public criticism, evident in Nina Andreyeva's critical letter in a March edition of Sovetskaya Rossiya. Gorbachev acknowledged that his liberalising policies of glasnost and perestroika owed a great deal to Alexander Dubček's "Socialism with a human face".

The Law on Cooperatives enacted in May 1988 was perhaps the most radical of the economic reforms during the early part of the Gorbachev era. For the first time since Vladimir Lenin's New Economic Policy, the law permitted private ownership of businesses in the service, manufacturing, and foreign-trade sectors. The law initially imposed high taxes and employment restrictions, although these were ignored by some SSRs. Later the restrictions were revised to avoid discouraging private-sector activity. Under the provision for private ownership, cooperative restaurants, shops, and manufacturers became part of the Soviet scene. Under the new law, the restructuring of large 'All-Union' industrial organisations also began. Aeroflot was split up, eventually becoming several independent airlines. These newly autonomous business organisations were encouraged to seek foreign investment.

In June 1988, at the CPSU's Party Conference, Gorbachev launched radical reforms meant to reduce party control of the government apparatus. He proposed a new executive in the form of a presidential system, as well as a new legislative element, to be called the Congress of People's Deputies. Elections to the Congress of People's Deputies were held throughout the Soviet Union in March and April 1989. This was the first free election in the Soviet Union since 1917. Gorbachev became Chairman of the Supreme Soviet (or head of state) on 25 May 1989.
​

 

[whatbogsends]

If i was the Devil....

I would convince a large segment of the population that they have been given Gods word, and to trust in this despite all evidences to the contrary. I would convince them that belief in things via faith is equal to belief in things based on witness and evidence. I would convince people to speak about the sanctity of life, while advocating war and destruction. I would convince the world that 10% of its population controlling 50% of the wealth is a good and natural thing, and for that same 10% to carry an equal burden back to society is unjust. I would convince my followers that a societal support of the downtrodden is tyranny. I would whisper that work should not be compensated, and that ownership and wealth is the only true measure of value in a society. I would denigrate knowledge as "elitism", and label inconvenient findings of science as myths. I would shroud the world in ignorance, while conferring the ignorant with unfettered confidence that their ignorant beliefs are unquestionable truth.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

If I was the Devil, I'd convince the world I didn't exist...

 

[NightHawkeye]

If i was the Devil....

I would convince a large segment of the population that they have been given Gods word, and to trust in this despite all evidences to the contrary. I would convince them that belief in things via faith is equal to belief in things based on witness and evidence.

Agreed.

I would convince people to speak about the sanctity of life, while advocating war and destruction.

Oh, the hypocrisy ...

I would convince the world that 10% of its population controlling 50% of the wealth is a good and natural thing ...

... and I'd convince the 50% that they were entitled to all the wealth of the 10%.

One Tin Soldier - The Legend of Billy Jack - YouTube

Listen children to a story,
That was written long ago.
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain,
And the valley folk below.
On the mountain was a treasure,
Buried deep beneath a stone,
And the valley people swore,
They'd have it for their very own.

Chorus:
Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowin'
Come the judgement day.
On the bloody morning after,
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley,
Sent a message up the hill.
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.
Came an answer, from the kingdom,
"With our brothers, we will share,
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses,
Draw your sword"
And they killed the mountain people,
So they won their just reward.
Now they stood beside the treasure
On the mountain dark and red,
Turned the stone and looked beneath it,
"Peace on earth" was all it said.

Chorus: (X2)
Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowin'
Come the judgement day.
On the bloody morning after,
One tin soldier rides away.
​

... and for that same 10% to carry an equal burden back to society is unjust. I would convince my followers that a societal support of the downtrodden is tyranny.

Exactly. Class warfare ...

I would whisper that work should not be compensated, and that ownership and wealth is the only true measure of value in a society.

... and if I were the devil I'd preach that re-distribution of wealth by the state is what Christ would want.

I would denigrate knowledge as "elitism", and label inconvenient findings of science as myths.

... and I'd manufacture myths packaged as truth and science.

I would shroud the world in ignorance, while conferring the ignorant with unfettered confidence that their ignorant beliefs are unquestionable truth.

Exactly.

 

[keith99]

...
One Tin Soldier - The Legend of Billy Jack - YouTube

Listen children to a story,
That was written long ago.
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain,
And the valley folk below.
On the mountain was a treasure,
Buried deep beneath a stone,
And the valley people swore,
They'd have it for their very own.

Chorus:
Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowin'
Come the judgement day.
On the bloody morning after,
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley,
Sent a message up the hill.
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.
Came an answer, from the kingdom,
"With our brothers, we will share,
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses,
Draw your sword"
And they killed the mountain people,
So they won their just reward.
Now they stood beside the treasure
On the mountain dark and red,
Turned the stone and looked beneath it,
"Peace on earth" was all it said.

Chorus: (X2)
Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowin'
Come the judgement day.
On the bloody morning after,
One tin soldier rides away.
​

Way to pick a song made a hit by a satanic band.

Half serious, I have the Coven Album somewhere.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Way to pick a song made a hit by a satanic band.

Interesting paradox, isn't it, Keith?

Personally, I find all the raised fists in the video of even more obvious interest.

Half serious, I have the Coven Album somewhere.

Unfortunately, the extremely heavy compression and clipping in the original recording badly degrades the audio quality of the recording. That was standard practice back in the days when transistors were still new though. I haven't heard a high-quality rendition of One-tin Soldier ...

Here's a slightly higher quality rendition though:

COVEN - One Tin Soldier - 45 RPM - YouTube