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If God will provide, why do children starve and martyrs die?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Audacious, May 12, 2012.

  1. Audacious

    Audacious Flaming Jesus Freak And Science Advocate

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    The Bible says that God will provide for those who believe. Okay, I'm cool with that - I get it. But what about martyrdom? What about when a missionary gets murdered for no reason other than expression of their faith?

    And what about the starving children in Africa - children who can't understand the gospel, who aren't old enough to really 'get' the Bible, and who couldn't learn even if they were old enough because it's impossible to learn when you're starving to death?

    If the Lord provides for His people, than why was John martyred? Why do some escape their imprisonment through the Lord, while others suffer and ultimately and often painfully leave this world?

    How can we trust God to provide for us when there are so many times when He doesn't - when a mother's newborn child dies, when Christians die from persecution (even in the modern day, at least occasionally, in the middle east - not even missionaries, not even people practicing Christianity against the government!).

    I mean, I get the fact that our lives can suck (at least temporarily) and that we can go through intense suffering, but that the Lord will see us through; but what about when He sees us through and we just end up dying in pain and suffering, and what about when innocent children die for naught?

    Does it really matter if you have faith, if you lack deliverance in your time of need?

    James
     
  2. Mumbie

    Mumbie Newbie

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    I hear you 100%. I've been told that God is interested in our souls, not in our Earthly bodies. Basically, what is six (or sixty) years of pain and hunger to an eternity with God? That is what it all boils down to, only some try to sugar coat it.

    The trouble is, our Earthly bodies and souls are connected! If we are hungry or in pain, I believe it affects our souls. Bad physical circumstances (beyond your control) can turn you into a bad person, turn your soul away from goodness. I have felt souless through the worst of my anxiety. I felt like an animal being hunted. And if I get in an accident and get a bump on the head, I will be fundamentally changed as a person. I will not be aware I even have a soul. So, it's hard for me to understand. We cannot neglect our children physically and expect them to grow up as healthy, upstanding citizens. Likewise, it's near impossible to be got at from all sides and remain a dedicated and hopeful Christian.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  3. Rick Otto

    Rick Otto The Dude Abides

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    What in this instance did God fail to provide?


    You blaming God for the devil's work?

    The Lord provided a martyr for His people. What is it exactly you are complainig about?

    OH, I see. You think everyone should lead the same pain-free happy life?


    Again, it is unclear what you think God should be providing other than a problem free existence.

    The pain of death is over after you die. Innocence is relative. Only Jesus was born innocent. So some innocent children are spared this life.

    Matter to whom?
    It can make a difference in your response.
     
  4. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    Even in the case of Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the dead, he still died (as a martyr, btw). Giving us all material prosperity and health will only delay the inevitable. God gives us what is necessary to find Him and repent.
     
  5. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    The provisions for what is needed is there.

    There is hunger in the world because there is a devil who is out to kill steal and destroy.

    The Bible tells us how to overcome the devil and his bunch however many even on this forum do not accept what He said as truth.

    Therefore those who do not have no weapon to overcome the things against them and also reject the very power that will deliver them.

    Some of God's people that knew how to receive deliverance chose not to do so.

    Heb 11:35
    Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
    KJV
     
  6. Yet, "by faith" Moses chose to suffer, Hebrews 11. So the faith was in God, and it was God's will for Moses to go through that.
     
  7. Now as far a power to be delivered, Paul had grace to go hungry in Philippians 4, he was not always delivered from hunger, in fact, one can't separate grace from weakness, according to 2 Corinthians 12.
     
  8. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    If Moses chose to, and he did. Then it was Moses will to suffer.

    Nowhere did it say that God made the decision for Moses and made Moses suffer.

    Heb 11:24-26

    24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

    25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

    26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
    KJV
     
  9. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    Starvation (especially in the modern era) is typically the result of human failure.
    We are capable of sharing from our means to make food available for others.
    Commodity speculation drives up the cost of food, making it unaffordable.
    Shifts to an industrial economy undermines agrarian society (making people less able to provide for their own needs).
    Food distribution networks are managed politically.

    And martyrdom is at the hand of humans.

    War arises from human failure - and typically results in both (martyrdom and food scarcity).
     
  10. But it says he did it by faith, whereby it was the will of God. Are you actually saying moses was not called? By faith in whom?;)
     
  11. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    Do you know what faith is?:)
     
  12. What or who, was his faith in? Was it not God?
     
  13. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    The question is valid. Do you know what faith is.

    Moses faith was in God to protect him.:)
     
  14. It's not valid, it is going down another road, when clearly we can't separate the faith from God, which shows that the suffering was connected to the faith, connected to the God event.

    Faith in whom? Who was the faith in, that Moses chose to suffer for?

    11:2 For by it the people of old received their commendation.
     
  15. Don't forget, he knew from the beginning he was leaving a comfort zone, and he did it by faith, a choice to suffer, by faith.
     
  16. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    the question is valid. You have been speaking about Moses doing things by faith.

    Therefore what you are thinking faith is has a bearing on what you are believing about Moses and his "suffering"

    What do you think faith is?
     
  17. Sorry, but you seek to divert, when the text is clear, he knew he was leaving the comfort, and it was by faith, and we can not separate faith from God, so the suffering was from God.

    Hebrews 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
     
  18. Comprehender

    Comprehender Newbie

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    James,
    We are God's hands!
    Suffering is good to a point - it helps deepen our souls & teaches compassion.
    I think about Victor Frankl's "Man's search for meaning" about the holocaust.
    Finding meaning in suffering makes it more bearable.

    But I agree - that enough is enough! Too much suffering!
    Almost 1 BILLION men, women & children are chronically hungry!
    Tens of thousands die EVERY DAY of preventable causes!
    It breaks my heart to think of the suffering caused by wars & diseases, especially involving children.
    It breaks my heart that abortion killings of children are legal... many don't realize these little children (developing human beings) have all body systems intact at 8 weeks getstation & can feel their bodies being ripped apart during abortions.

    It is a call for us to DO SOMETHING!
    Many hands make light work...
    That's what religion (legion = many) is supposed to be about - helping each other!
    Jesus' parable of the good Samaritan & that of dividing the sheep from the goats (Matt 25) are about caring for those in need. "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these, ye have done it unto me."

    Study it out, think it through & pray how to best help & not only will you be God's hands in blessing others, but you will be blessed yourself!
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  19. InSpiritInTruth

    InSpiritInTruth New Member

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    To die in the flesh is deliverance to the faithful in Christ.:thumbsup:

    Ecclesiastes 7:1
    A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.

    Those who are not made perfect in God's Love through faith are the same ones who are fearful of death.

    To Live is Christ, to die is gain.
     
  20. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    That "logic" comes from religion. Not scripture.

    That statement also shows a complete lack of understanding of what faith is. :)
     
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