If God Himself came down and personally told me that YEC was true...

Strathos

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I'd believe Him. I might not understand, but if He clarified it to me I'd trust Him.

What about you, creationists? If God Himself appeared to you and told you that evolution and deep time were true, and Genesis was meant to be taken allegorically, would you believe Him?
 

Doveaman

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If God Himself came down and personally told me that YEC was true...

I'd believe Him. I might not understand, but if He clarified it to me I'd trust Him.

What about you, creationists? If God Himself appeared to you and told you that evolution and deep time were true, and Genesis was meant to be taken allegorically, would you believe Him?
Sure I would, but only after He explained to me who is this first natural, earthly man of dust called Adam:

The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven…And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.” -- (1 Cor 15:45-49).
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I'd believe Him. I might not understand, but if He clarified it to me I'd trust Him.

What about you, creationists? If God Himself appeared to you and told you that evolution and deep time were true, and Genesis was meant to be taken allegorically, would you believe Him?

Why do you assume Genesis does not teach an old earth? Because you prefer the incorrect translation of "hayah" as "was" instead of "became", as do some?

The earth "was" NOT formless and void. The earth "became" desolate and waste. And darkness "became" upon.... Tohu wa bohu is used together in only three verses in the Bible - and the other two versus point to a once flourishing condition laid desolate and waste (Gen 1:2; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23).

So why must we use the same translation of the ancient Hebrew that is clearly translated into English incorrectly?

The earth was already flourishing with life prior to man. Life that has went extinct in several eras, after which all new forms of life arose. It's that gap game back again. Then the last catastrophe struck.

In the oldest manuscripts there is a mark of a pause between the first and second verse. It may be as science tells us, that this globe existed millions of years ago; that it has been the habitation of numerous and varied races of animated beings; and that it has undergone many great destruction's and creations before it was brought into its present state: none of these views are in the least discordant with the statement of the inspired historian, that “in beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

Comet, meteor? Who knows? It is quite accurate when interpreted properly. After unknown periods of time another act of creation occurred, this time with a notable exception, one worth bothering to describe in more detail, unlike any others that may have occurred previously. But then a new creation happened, the waters were separated from the waters (evaporation). "Let there be light...divided the light from the darkness". In Hebrew literally: " divided between the light and between darkness." Where all had previously been darkness due to the destruction, the addition of heat began separating the clouds. The events in the entire chapter are described as if one's viewpoint is from the earth.

So heat began penetrating into the depths after God acted, separating the clouds, letting light into the depths, the clouds had been so low as to contact the Earth itself. But heat allowed evaporation and the waters above were separated from the waters below and dry land appeared.

The next is just a twisted version by evolutionists. The creatures in the waters formed first, in Hebrew discourses this includes all microbial and plant life in the seas. Then reptiles and crawling things and finally birds of the air. Then mammals and man. This is where evolution theory got their idea of the order from, the Bible told them long ago. They knew the truth and so modeled their theory upon this same basis. But again, the lack of transitory species makes their interpretation of the events in the Bible suspect. If evolution is indeed correct, where are the transitory species today? Did it only occur in the past? Instead all we see is "Kind after Kind" and different "breeds" or "strains" or "species" within those Kinds. Lines which are "never" crossed. Lines which never become so different we can't recognize they are all of the same Kind. All Felidae are Felidae. All Canidae are Canidae. All Caprinae are Caprinae.

We know of no other thing, even down to the genetic level, which thanks to technological advancements, is showing that tree is nothing but individual distinct bushes, with sideways variation. I.e., different "breeds, or strains, or species, or subspecies, etc.", within that kind - or bush. Never once indicating a transitional form to another "kind". Even after billions of generations and billions of mutations, all E. coli are still E. coli, and always will be. All Felidae, no matter how many times we breed them or even mutate them in the lab, will always be Felidae.

Every past form of life sprang from nowhere, lived for a time, different breeds of that kind prospering, then went extinct due to cataclysmic actions. In its place all new life once again sprang up, to again repeat the cycle. The Bible just affirms this, when it told you of the earth becoming desolate and waste, and the darkness that became upon it, encompassing it around. Hence the dinosaurs died out. It then described the "sixth" such event, when man himself was created.

There have been 5 - count them, 5 major extinction events. Mankind and the animals with him were created "after" this 5th extinction event, the 6th creative act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Transitory species nothing more than an incorrect classification of the fossil record. As science is beginning to understand from actual study of their bones.


5 classified incorrectly just in the 12 major dinosaurs of North America. And this does not even include the multitude of minor Kinds. the gaps grow larger as real science comes on the scene to do away with the past myths of evolutionists. Let alone the discussion of breeds within a species that all evolutionist's run from, knowing what reality does to their fossil record and claims of separate species this and that...

So no - because if He came preaching evolution instead of creation - then it would be the god of this system, doing exactly what he does best and appears to have done quite well. Not God Himself.
 
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justlookinla

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I'd believe Him. I might not understand, but if He clarified it to me I'd trust Him.

What about you, creationists? If God Himself appeared to you and told you that evolution and deep time were true, and Genesis was meant to be taken allegorically, would you believe Him?

Depends on what you mean by "evolution". The kind of evolution where only naturalistic mechanisms created humanity with Him being completely absent from the process, or the kind of evolution where He's completely involved the process? "Evolution" isn't a monolithic term and has many facets.

For God to claim that He wasn't completely involved in the process wouldn't be possible, if He were God. That would make Him a liar.
 
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Gracchus

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Depends on what you mean by "evolution".
I think what is meant is "biological evolution": The change in allele frequency over time in an interbreeding population.
The kind of evolution where only naturalistic mechanisms created humanity with Him being completely absent from the process, or the kind of evolution where He's completely involved the process?
Maybe the kind of evolution where you can't tell the difference one way or the other, the kind of evolution we actually observe?
"Evolution" isn't a monolithic term and has many facets.
Biological evolution has complex implications but it is really quite simple. It isn't really mysterious.
For God to claim that He wasn't completely involved in the process wouldn't be possible, if He were God. That would make Him a liar.
I thought your god could do anything. If he can change the value of "pi", why couldn't he lie? If he were to change his mind, as your book says he has done in the past, would his new opinion be the new truth? People on this forum have said as much. If he changes reality, is that a lie? It seems to me that "God" can do only what the believer will allow.


:wave:
 
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justlookinla

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I think what is meant is "biological evolution": The change in allele frequency over time in an interbreeding population.

Could be. That certainly would be a variant of evolution which was based on the scientific method, as compared to Darwinist evolution which has elements within the view which aren't based on the scientific method. That's why it's important to understand what view of evolution one is referring to when claiming evidence.

Maybe the kind of evolution where you can't tell the difference one way or the other, the kind of evolution we actually observe?

If we can't tell the difference one way or another (theistic or non-theistic), any conclusion should be tempered with the caveat that the basis for the conclusion isn't supported by the scientific method.

Biological evolution has complex implications but it is really quite simple. It isn't really mysterious.

Complex or simple, the conclusions must be based on the scientific method to have scientific validity in those conclusions.

I thought your god could do anything. If he can change the value of "pi", why couldn't he lie? If he were to change his mind, as your book says he has done in the past, would his new opinion be the new truth? People on this forum have said as much. If he changes reality, is that a lie? It seems to me that "God" can do only what the believer will allow.


:wave:

While the discussion of what God can do and what God can't do would be interesting, that comes under the heading of apologetics which isn't allowed in this section of the forum.

:wave:
 
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DogmaHunter

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Depends on what you mean by "evolution". The kind of evolution where only naturalistic mechanisms created humanity with Him being completely absent from the process, or the kind of evolution where He's completely involved the process? "Evolution" isn't a monolithic term and has many facets.

Does it matter?

Would you not believe it if god himself told you? Irrelevant of what is meant by "evolution"?

For God to claim that He wasn't completely involved in the process wouldn't be possible, if He were God. That would make Him a liar.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!
 
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DogmaHunter

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God has told us...through His word.

No, the people who wrote the bible claiming it to be god's word told you. And the OP literally states "what if god came down and told you that it's metaphorical and thus not literally true and that evolution theory is correct?". Your response was clearly that you wouldn't simply believe god, you would actually question him.


I just think it is incredibly hilarious that you would put the word of men (the bible) above the word of god himself, would he come down and downright tell you that you're wrong. You'ld still be tempted to go with the bible anyway (well.... your particular interpretation of it anyway...).

I think this is something you need to reflect on.
 
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Jimmy D

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Depends on what you mean by "evolution". The kind of evolution where only naturalistic mechanisms created humanity with Him being completely absent from the process, or the kind of evolution where He's completely involved the process? "Evolution" isn't a monolithic term and has many facets.

For God to claim that He wasn't completely involved in the process wouldn't be possible, if He were God. That would make Him a liar.

You could ask him your pine trees question. :idea:

Personally, I'd take His word for it whatever He told me.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Personally, I'd take His word for it whatever He told me.

I wouldn't. I'ld still require him to demonstrate his claims. :D

Think about it....
Sure, he might be all-powerfull and immortal and all that....
But why would that imply that he isn't lying? Why would that imply that he is "goodness itself"?
Might doesn't make right.

No, seriously, I'ld probably nod and obbey. Not because I'ld simply believe him, but rather for the same reason that I'ld nod and obbey when a mafia gang asked me to hand over my wallet.

Might doesn't make right, but might sure can enforce authority.
 
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juvenissun

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I'd believe Him. I might not understand, but if He clarified it to me I'd trust Him.

What about you, creationists? If God Himself appeared to you and told you that evolution and deep time were true, and Genesis was meant to be taken allegorically, would you believe Him?

I will run away from him as far as I could. God will NOT come that way.
I don't believe you will believe him either. You WILL question if he is God.
 
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justlookinla

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No, the people who wrote the bible claiming it to be god's word told you.

No, the Spirit of God witnesses it's true. But this is getting into apologetics.

And the OP literally states "what if god came down and told you that it's metaphorical and thus not literally true and that evolution theory is correct?". Your response was clearly that you wouldn't simply believe god, you would actually question him.

You're speaking of the impossible. God could never do that because of His Word.

I just think it is incredibly hilarious that you would put the word of men (the bible) above the word of god himself,

Both are the Word of God.

would he come down and downright tell you that you're wrong. You'ld still be tempted to go with the bible anyway (well.... your particular interpretation of it anyway...).

God would be saying He's wrong, Darwin's right.

I think this is something you need to reflect on.

You really don't understand the absurdity of the question, do you?
 
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heatedmonk

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I'd believe Him. I might not understand, but if He clarified it to me I'd trust Him.

What about you, creationists? If God Himself appeared to you and told you that evolution and deep time were true, and Genesis was meant to be taken allegorically, would you believe Him?
I'd ask him how it could be then that dinosaur fossils were found to be millions of years old?
 
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heatedmonk

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What's wrong with that?
Well, in the case of the OP and God coming to confirm that YEC is correct, God would have a lot of 'splaining to do. YEC believes the earth is less than at most 10,000 years old. Some say 6,000 but it varies as to which YEC someone may talk to up to 10,000.

Millions of year old fossils would make that a bit of a problem. And here are some YEC who will say that fossils are placed there by Satan so as to test our faith.
 
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