If evolution is not valid theology, someone should tell the theologians

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jereth

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Here is a list of conservative, evangelical, orthodox, Bible-believing Christian theologians, preachers, evangelists and writers who accept an Old Earth / evolutionary theory.

Henri Blocher
Chuck Colson
Dr. William Lane Craig
C.S. Lewis (author of the Narnia chronicles)
J. I. Packer (author of Knowing God)
Lee Strobel (author of The Case for Christ)
B.B. Warfield
Gordon Wenham
John Stott (author of The Cross of Christ)
Meredith G. Kline

[and there are many others...]

So, ladies and gentlemen, are they all wrong? Are they all leading the church into error?
 

Maccie

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That's great! Only trouble is, evolutionary theory is a scientific theory, not theology.

The Bible is an account of the revelation of God to his people. Evolution belongs to biological science.

No wonder most, if not all, great Christians believe in the science of evolution, geology, and all the rest of the earth and biological sciences. And most lesser Christians, too, come to that!

The Bible is not, and never will be, a scientific treatise.

When a YEC builds a rocket and takes man to the moon, based solely on principles and instructions taken from the Bible, then I might, just possibly, believe something of what they say!
 
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chaoschristian

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jereth said:
Lee Strobel (author of The Case for Christ)

Strobel? Are you sure?

After reading The Case for a Creator, I thought Strobel demonstrated as much understanding of evolution as a Texas truck-stop diner demonstrates appreciation for nouveau cuisine.

But perhaps he's changed since publishing that book?
 
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FreezBee

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Maccie said:
That's great! Only trouble is, evolutionary theory is a scientific theory, not theology.

True, science and theology is an unstable mixture - don't rely on, how it'll behave under varying pressure and temperature!

Maccie said:
When a YEC builds a rocket and takes man to the moon, based solely on principles and instructions taken from the Bible, then I might, just possibly, believe something of what they say!

^_^ ^_^ ^_^ Yeah, that'll be the day ...


- FreezBee
 
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jereth

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chaoschristian said:
Strobel? Are you sure?

I got that one from Reasons to Believe.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/notable_leaders/index.shtml#strobel
Apparently these are Strobel quotes:
Thanks to scientific discoveries of the last fifty years, the ancient kalam cosmological argument has taken on a powerful and persuasive new force. As described by William Lane Craig, the argument is simple yet elegant: first, whatever begins to exist has a cause . Even renowned skeptic David Hume didn't deny this first premise. In fact, atheist Quentin Smith's contention that "we came from nothing, by nothing, and for nothing" seems intuitively absurd.

The cosmological constant, which represents the energy density of space, is as precise as throwing a dart from space and hitting a bulls-eye just a trillionth of a trillionth of an inch in diameter on Earth. One expert said there are more than thirty physical or cosmological parameters that require precise calibration in order to produce a universe that can sustain life.

It's not overtly evolutionary, but evolutionary nonetheless.
 
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FreezBee

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jereth said:
Thanks to scientific discoveries of the last fifty years, the ancient kalam cosmological argument has taken on a powerful and persuasive new force. As described by William Lane Craig, the argument is simple yet elegant: first, whatever begins to exist has a cause .

Oh dear - would somebody be so kind as to tell William Lane Craig about the theory of relativity? Causal relations are temporal relations, but there's no time without a space, so space is uncaused.

jereth said:
Even renowned skeptic David Hume didn't deny this first premise.

But he denied that we could use it to prove anything about the creator, not even if there was one or many, and certainly nothing about the properties of the creator(s). Aristotle in his time operated with a "prime mover" who had started the whole spiel, but who then left the universe run its own business.

- FreezBee
 
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shernren

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Ack, the kalam cosmological argument is basically IDism on a cosmic scale. Lee Strobel wrote a book called The Case for Creation and I have not seen any sign that he's turned away from his creationist position, so I don't think it's right to put him in.

You can add Philip Yancey though, while he doesn't say much about the crevo debate AFAIK he did write a line something like this in Reaching For The Invisible God which sounds like he's no YECist: "Not too long ago literalists were telling us that according to the Bible, the earth could not be much older than 6,000 years." while talking of other old Christian ideas.
 
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chaoschristian

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jereth said:
I got that one from Reasons to Believe.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/notable_leaders/index.shtml#strobel
Apparently these are Strobel quotes:
Thanks to scientific discoveries of the last fifty years, the ancient kalam cosmological argument has taken on a powerful and persuasive new force. As described by William Lane Craig, the argument is simple yet elegant: first, whatever begins to exist has a cause . Even renowned skeptic David Hume didn't deny this first premise. In fact, atheist Quentin Smith's contention that "we came from nothing, by nothing, and for nothing" seems intuitively absurd.

The cosmological constant, which represents the energy density of space, is as precise as throwing a dart from space and hitting a bulls-eye just a trillionth of a trillionth of an inch in diameter on Earth. One expert said there are more than thirty physical or cosmological parameters that require precise calibration in order to produce a universe that can sustain life.

It's not overtly evolutionary, but evolutionary nonetheless.

Strobel, in context, used that passage to support the idea that all of creation must be designed.

Check out http://www.leestrobel.com/ He provides his own refutation of 'Darwinism' right on the front page.
 
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Willtor

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chaoschristian said:
Oh and saying that Lee Strobel is a theologian is like saying Ronald McDonald is a four star chef.

Say what you will, but that guy can fry me up a McGriddle any day of the week (Ronald, not Lee).

chaoschristian said:
Strobel is an author and a self-promoter of the same calibre and skill as Dan Brown.

I've heard the name, but I haven't actually read any of his stuff (Lee, not Dan). All I know is that people who have read his "Case for Faith" come away talking about faith that when you sit down on a chair, you won't fall through the chair. This is dum (no, not a tpyo). Saying Christian faith is this sort of faith is like calling Lake Superior a puddle.
 
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Late_Cretaceous

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Some likely creationists responses to the OP:

* Oh, I bet these are the same liberals who support homosexual marriage
* They are not evangelical, therefore they are not true christians
* The bible says "many will be deceived" and "there will be false prophets"
* Oh ya, well so-and-so is part of such-and-such demonination, and they believe this-and-that which is totally unbiblical and unchristian.
 
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jereth

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Late_Cretaceous said:
Some likely creationists responses to the OP:

Yeah, well they haven't responded yet. Maybe because they are forced to have a serious think about how evolution can be so evil if great Christian men like Stott, Packer and Lewis can accept it.

Hope so, anyway.:crossrc:
 
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chaoschristian

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Willtor said:
All I know is that people who have read his "Case for Faith" come away talking about faith that when you sit down on a chair, you won't fall through the chair.

Saying 'The Case for Faith' is a good evangelical tool is like saying the crusades are a good model for mission work.
 
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shernren

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Say what you will, but that guy can fry me up a McGriddle any day of the week (Ronald, not Lee).

What's a McGriddle? Is it another one of the American edibles that greatly expand the McGirdle?
 
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chaoschristian said:
Saying 'The Case for Faith' is a good evangelical tool is like saying the crusades are a good model for mission work.

:sick:

shernren said:
What's a McGriddle? Is it another one of the American edibles that greatly expand the McGirdle?

For every McGriddle you eat, you grow out of your McGirdle. As a meaningful (and I use the term, loosely) aside, the law says that every food that a company produces must contain nutrition information. But if it weren't the law, writing "Nutrition Information" on the side of any McDonald's meal would subject them to false advertising.

Evaluating the nutritional value of a McDonald's meal is like evaluating the quality of reasoning in a Rush Limbaugh broadcast.
 
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JohnR7

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jereth said:
Here is a list of conservative, evangelical, orthodox, Bible-believing Christian theologians, preachers, evangelists and writers who accept an Old Earth / evolutionary theory.
I am sure that if you were to ask them they would qualify just what they do or do not believe. That is why my official position is that I do not believe in evolution in any way, shape or forum. That way someone like you can not come along and misrepresent me.
 
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