If Christ existed before earthly birth, did He not interact with humans?

[HighwayMan]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

 

[JackRT]

Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Mark in his gospel clearly thought that Jesus became "Son of God" at his baptism, Matthew and Luke thought it was at conception or birth while John thought it was from eternity. We must always remember that the Gospels themselves are an interpretation and that interpretation has been interpreted and expanded by theologians ever since.

 

[Winken]

Your conclusion is correct.

God is eternal: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Not three gods. One God in Three Persons. He presented Himself before the beginning of space and time as its Creator. He presented Himself as Jesus on earth after wrestling with the Hebrew folk for a few thousand years. Then He paid the price for ALL sin at the Cross. He presented Himself as the Holy Spirit, monitoring and encouraging everyone who confesses Him as Savior. Yea!

 

[AV1611VET]

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Well ... let's see ... where to begin?

He visited Abraham before going on down and destroying Sodom & Gomorrah.

He killed all the firstborn sons of Egypt that didn't have the blood of a lamb on their doorposts and lintels.

He engaged in hand-to-hand combat with Jacob.

He ...

 

[Winken]

Well ... let's see ... where to begin?

He visited Abraham before going on down and destroying Sodom & Gomorrah.

He kill all the firstborn sons of Egypt that didn't have the blood of a lamb on their doorposts and lintels.

He engaged in hand-to-hand combat with Jacob.

He ...

Nice to see you!! I was about to go to bed!!

 

[AV1611VET]

Nice to see you!! I was about to go to bed!!

LOL

Thanks!

Now that's a compliment!

 

[Hank77]

He was the Rock that followed the mixed multitude in the wilderness.
He said that He knew Abraham.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Well ... let's see ... where to begin?

At the beginning? According to John, He was the active entity creating the Universe. Which, admittedly is a little before humans.

He visited Abraham before going on down and destroying Sodom & Gomorrah.

Check.

He killed all the firstborn sons of Egypt that didn't have the blood of a lamb on their doorposts and lintels.

Never thought of it that way. But I really cannot argue against it.

He engaged in hand-to-hand combat with Jacob.

The name "Israel" given to Jacob the trickster would bear that out. Check.

He ...

...told Manoah and his wife of the coming birth of Samson. Manoah thought so, anyway.

Gave Joshua a pep talk prior to the battle at Jericho. This is arguable, I suppose, but I have a good feeling about it.

I don't have time to do a full study on it; and I suspect there are a few incidents not mentioned as they didn't influence the 'greater' story.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't have time to do a full study on it; and I suspect there are a few incidents not mentioned as they didn't influence the 'greater' story.

As we're fond of saying:

Jesus is on every page of the Bible.

And this one is good too:

Jesus is in the Old Testament concealed; and in the New Testament revealed.

 

[SkyWriting]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

God exists outside of time and created "time" as a gift to delay our judgment.
If one is correctly judged for sin then no people would exist.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

No, it is controversial only to people who hold non-traditional Christian beliefs about the Nature of God.
While I can see very liberal aspects of the "questions" in the OP, am unclear why anyone would think the proper response must be conservative. I could see a case for what some call "modern" verses traditional Christianity and also agree what many consider modern is very liberal. But the converse is not true as plenty of self described "liberals" can be found in traditional Christianity.

The man Jesus Christ is also God, properly titled as a Person as the Son of God. Obviously God existed in the OT even though that Man did not yet exist. As several here have already pointed out, that Person was active from before the beginning of mankind and throughout the OT record. A record several properly point out which includes Spirit led implicit statements of His Presence within that OT record. BTW a record made by a people that did not as yet (or presently) see God as a Trinity. The Trinity Doctrine something that even Christians would not complete for hundreds of years after He Ascended.

So to wonder why ancient Jews would not record in the OT His Presence, other than to acknowledge implicitly that He is God and God acted is like asking why the NT writers did not give a dissertation on the Trinity Doctrine. The reason most traditional Christians and many others that hold to the Trinity Doctrine do not wonder the things the OP apparently finds lacking and a "hole" in traditional Christianity is because they were taught the proper understanding of God's Nature.

I agree there is such a hole in non-traditional Christian beliefs which reject the Trinity Doctrine, but we also cannot label them liberal as there are many self described conservatives in that grouping.

 

[Ronald]

In Exodus 3:14, the pre-incarnate Jesus, who is God spoke to Moses. Moses asked, who shall I say sent me. God said, "Tell them I AM sent me to you." Prior to this, God said, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" as well.
This was God's introduction, not very descriptive, but it was to be fulfilled by Jesus. The "I AM" is complete when we look at these verses:
"I am the Light of the World"
"I am the Good Shepherd"
"I am the way, the truth and the life ..."
"I am the resurrection and the life"
"I am the door"
"I am the Bread which came down from heaven"
"I am the vine, you are the branches"
"I am the Alpha and the Omega"
"I am He" who was throughout the Old Testament, the LORD, prophesied as the SAVIOR/MESSIAH. And so He interacted with humans all along.
He is the CREATOR who emptied himself into a human baby and became a man and dwelt among us. All things were made by Him, For Him and through Him all things consist (hold together).
Only God can take our sins away, it requires Omniscience, Omnipotence and Omnipresence.
If you want to know what God is like, look at Jesus.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

As an after thought; some of the confusion or misunderstanding may arise from this: At no time nor place in the 'pre-birth era' did the Second Person of the God Head - the Christ - appear and announce: "Hi! I'm God and I'll be born in Bethlehem to a rather poor Jewish couple in about XXX years. Keep watching!" and then disappear.

He did not make it too obvious or too glitzy.

 

[AV1611VET]

As an after thought; some of the confusion or misunderstanding may arise from this: At no time nor place in the 'pre-birth era' did the Second Person of the God Head - the Christ - appear and announce: "Hi! I'm God and I'll be born in Bethlehem to a rather poor Jewish couple in about XXX years. Keep watching!" and then disappear.

No, but He sent Gabriel to do it.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

As an after thought; some of the confusion or misunderstanding may arise from this: At no time nor place in the 'pre-birth era' did the Second Person of the God Head - the Christ - appear and announce: "Hi! I'm God and I'll be born in Bethlehem to a rather poor Jewish couple in about XXX years. Keep watching!" and then disappear.

He did not make it too obvious or too glitzy.

God cannot be "born", so no He would not say that. A man can be born and the OT had something to say not only about His Coming but also about Whom that Man is.

He certainly indicated from the Beginning of the Bible (Gen 3) that He was coming (to become Man) and there (Gen 1 - ties to John 1).
Not that you said as much, but for anyone to suggest that at no time did God announce that He was coming is blatantly false (2 Sam 4, Ps 22&40, Wisdom 2, Is 7&9&50&53&60&61&63, Ez 34, Dan 7, Mi 5, Zec 9&11). That not all the teachings about God were understood and developed into a Doctrine for several centuries after His Birth is not deniable. But neither are the revelations of His Coming in the OT deniable.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

No, but He sent Gabriel to do it.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Yes. And He sent - uh - several prophets foretelling of the Arrival and Incarnation. Oh. God who walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden was more likely than not a pre-birth manifestation of Christ, the Second Person.

My only point was in His interactions with humanity prior the 'birth', He never waved his His hands, hired a brass band and put up a neon sign testifying to the pre-incarnate presence of Christ.

Which I think may give some people to question the matter, since it's not specifically spelled out.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

God cannot be "born", so no He would not say that.

Correct. God, the Triune and Eternal does not have a 'beginning', let alone a 'birth' in human terms.

A man...

Who is also God without short-changing either aspect...

... can be born and the OT had something to say not only about His Coming but also about Whom that Man is.

Without question.

That Christ, or Messiah, who is God and who is man was prophesied is without question. Please see post #16 and my apologies if my earlier post misled you.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Correct. God, the Triune and Eternal does not have a 'beginning', let alone a 'birth' in human terms.Who is also God without short-changing either aspect...Without question.

That Christ, or Messiah, who is God and who is man was prophesied is without question. Please see post #16 and my apologies if my earlier post misled you.

Np, none taken.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Np, none taken.

Oh, good! There's enough people unhappy with me for things I say on purpose!

 

[AV1611VET]

Which I think may give some people to question the matter, since it's not specifically spelled out.

Aren't you glad we have the completed word of God today?