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I Would be Ecstatic to Have a Gay Child!

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by WatersMoon110, Oct 21, 2008.

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  1. larry_boy_44

    larry_boy_44 New Member

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    What you don't understand is that it is impossible for us to understand the power that God holes, the knowledge that God has, the things that God sees all at the same time...

    It is impossible for our minds to grasp God... and you all keep wanting to make him finite and human and it doesn't work and that's why it doesn't make sense to you.
     
  2. SiderealExalt

    SiderealExalt New Member

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    I assume you meant holds. Also note, understanding what a word means is irrespective of whether or not you and someone or something else shares that description. It's like trying to say you have to be red to know what the word red means. It's nonsensical.

    And this all goes back to the whole Christianity can't seem to have the word "God" in their context mean anything at all.

    Which again goes to if you're right, Christians cannot say God is good,just,loving,jealous,wrathful, angry,all powerful, omnipresent , or any of the other very real descriptions the Bible and Christians upon their deity.

    Which comes full circle in religion has no leg to stand on when trying to say anything about the supposed immorality of homosexuality.
     
  3. larry_boy_44

    larry_boy_44 New Member

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    So just because saying God is love doesn't fully describe how much love God contains doesn't mean that it isn't there and it doesn't mean that He doesn't exist...

    Just because it doesn't fit in your little box of how things are suppose to work doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. Everything isn't about you and what you think.
     
  4. SiderealExalt

    SiderealExalt New Member

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    Taking what you've said earlier at face value. It would make the use of the word nonsensical. You might as well argue that every time you want to use the word planet you will instead use the word orangutan and expect people to know what the hell you are saying.

    Nice ad hom, what is your preoccupation with calling other people selfish. But if by "doesn't fit in your little box of how things are supposed to work." You mean that you don't like how words are defined. That's ok. But expect people to look at you funny when you do.
     
  5. larry_boy_44

    larry_boy_44 New Member

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    here's the thing... if we're talking about the Christian God here... Part of the BASIC DESCRIPTION of Him is that He is indescribable and we can't understand how He works.

    His ways are higher than ours, His thoughts are higher than ours, etc...

    We can't describe God accurately, and any attempt to do so is simply for our sake of trying to begin to get what is happening. It isn't realy accurate.

    The reason I say "it won't fit in your little box" is because you seem incapable of realizing that something is beyond your understanding, thus you reject it outright (or reject the notion that you can't understand it)...

    God cannot be described accurately in terms we understand. Period. Nothing about him is within our scope of understanding. So any word we use is not an accurate description of Him. Understand? This isn't a hard concept...
     
  6. TooCurious

    TooCurious Kitten with a ball of string

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    And yet you're the one who says things like this:

    If God is really as infinite and all-powerful as you're trying to characterize him, how could any part of his creation turn out in a way other than he intended? How could he have created humans that "sin" if he didn't want them to sin?

    Oh, and you're wrong about this bit:

    ...because I want people to care about one another. That's what "compassion" is, you see. It's not wanting people to suffer needlessly. Apparently this is something your "loving" God lacks, if you think he would force a person to choose between misery and loneliness in life, or an eternity in hell, over something that other people can have without consequence. You still haven't told me whether you believe that your God does this or not. Do you?
     
  7. SiderealExalt

    SiderealExalt New Member

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    Ah, so you're saying that part of the description of God is that you can't describe him. That makes perfect logical sense. :)

    See first and last reply.

    Navel gazing.

    See the first reply. When you make a comprehensible post, I'll start worrying about what I might or might not be doing.
     
  8. NAZARETH SAVAGE

    NAZARETH SAVAGE New Member

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    :D godspeed
     
  9. larry_boy_44

    larry_boy_44 New Member

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    and I don't consider it compassionate to encourage people to do things that will send them to eternal fiery torment...

    I don't see how the Christian perspective of things is so difficult for you to comprehend... How is it compassionate or loving to encourage smoeone to spend ETERNITY in torment? How is that not the most hateful thing anyone could ever do?

    But, yet, that's the exact response you want out of Christians...
     
  10. TooCurious

    TooCurious Kitten with a ball of string

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    And I don't consider it compassionate for a God to set up a system in which seeking out the same sort of loving companionship that other people can enjoy without consequence should lead to "eternal fiery torment."

    I don't see why the question I'm asking is so difficult for you to comprehend. Your claim, as I understand it, is that God has decided that some people cannot pursue loving and supportive romantic relationships with the consenting adults to whom they are attracted, upon penalty of eternal hellfire -- when other people can do exactly that without penalty. How is this God loving? How is this God compassionate? How is this God not hateful?

    What I want out of Christians (or at least the ones who think that homosexuality is a hell-worthy offense) is for them to really think about what it means for gay people, and the implications it has about the nature of the Christian God, as described.
     
  11. Wiccan_Child

    Wiccan_Child Contributor

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    The whole point is that we want such Christians to justify their claims: prove to us, beyond all reasonable doubt, that a man being in love with another man is enough to condemn them both to an eternity of suffering.

    And try to do so without creating a logical paradox (e.g., " 'infinitely loving god' + 'infinite suffering' ").
     
  12. wanderingone

    wanderingone I'm not lost I'm just wandering

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    I imagine the OP to be making a point in some way. The opposite of being disappointed is what?

    Personally as I've expressed it's not something I comprehend either way. I don't think "I hope my kid is straight" or "I hope my kid is gay"

    I do have a brother in law who actively tries to prevent his son from "turning gay" it might be humorous if my nephew wasn't turning into an absolute horror of a child who regardless of his orientation is going to need a lot of therapy. I think having dad snatch toys out of his hands screaming "girls toys are yucky" is bound to harm his little developing brain. (The poor kid.. he has 3 older sisters.. the house is a treasure chest of pink and purple toys from 20 years of birthdays and Christmases that passed before he made his appearance- how is he supposed to NOT touch girls stuff...?)
     
  13. wanderingone

    wanderingone I'm not lost I'm just wandering

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    Do you really believe people who "do wrong" go to hell? You think your actions save or condemn you?
     
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  14. QuakerOats

    QuakerOats — ♥ — Living in Love — ♥ —

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    I agree with doing 'right,' I just don't think we entirely agree on what's included in that, or in doing 'wrong,' and therein lies the difficulty. I believe that God is logical; reasonable, fair, and compassionate, therefore I believe that any 'rules' God has laid out for us must have a logical basis, based on said criteria of God's character. I see a logical basis for comdemning murder, as well as thievery, for example. They violate the rights of others; one to live, the other to live in peace, keeping what belongs to them. Homosexuality, on the other hand, I can find no logical basis for condemning. No, it doesn't propogate the species [in the usual manner], but I hardly think that's something we need be concerned about today, especially given that the number of folks in heterosexual relationships outweighs that of folks in homosexual relationships. Any other argument against homosexuality, as far as I can reasonsably see, relies on God's character as being less than logical; less than reasonable, fair, and compassionate. You could very well say that my understanding of these terms, as it were, do not apply to God because 'human wisdom is not God's wisdom,' but I don't believe that to be any more than a cop out; a way to avoid having to deal with the fact that the god you believe in may not be so nice after all. And, if God truly isn't so nice, then I have to wonder why anyone would bother associating themselves with him, which brings me to my [final] point: I find it rather disturbing that someone would rather side with an illogical god to save their own behind, than stand up for what is 'right,' live a good life, and end up in hell. It's really a choice between selfishness, and selflessness. Thankfully, I don't believe that those are the choices God gives us, as I mentioned near the beginning of my post.

    "'...but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.' - Jeremiah, chapter 9, verse 24 NASB
     
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  15. Beanieboy

    Beanieboy Senior Veteran

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    You have that right, certainly, but why is it that you tolerate someone in the US worshipping Vishnu, which is not in concordance with your religion, and yet, feel the need not to simply not be gay yourself, but to expect others to be heterosexual simply because it is against your religion?

    Are you going to tell people worshipping Allah and Mohammed that their religion should be outlawed, and that they should convert to Christianity, because it is in violation of the First Commandment?
     
  16. Beanieboy

    Beanieboy Senior Veteran

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    I'm really glad that attitudes have changed. I remember sitting with a girl I didn't know very well who was a nurse in the 80s. She had some patients with AIDS, and said that they deserve what they get.

    One of my friends told me that his parents stopped talking to him for 5 years.
    As for my parents, after I came out, they grew very distant, and never again acknowledged it. We grew apart. After about 20 years, they have finally come around, about a month before my Dad died this year. I think it was really hard for my parents to understand, because they didn't want to discuss it, and my mom would listen to the 700 Club, and hear Pat the Evil Leprechaun say how 9/11 wasn't just the cause of gay people, but of someone she knew, her son.

    I often think that the insistance that "gay is a choice", and that "the bible says homosexuality is wrong" tends to break up families, rather than Focus On them, often by spreading misinformation, and sometimes outright lies.

    I lived with a lot of fear, a lot of guilt, because of my parents. It felt pretty bad to have them sometimes suddenly start forgetting my birthday, not ask me home for Christmas, or the uncomfortableness they would show when we would go to church, and someone would ask me if I was married yet. At 45, I think that they can figure it out on their own, and it will give the tiny church something to gossip about.

    I really wish my parents had been there for me when I was coming out to myself, realizing that I was gay, knowing how much guys in the locker room would talk about how much they hated gay guys (or even straight guys that they judged effeminate). I struggled with the biblical verses surrounding it, and would have loved to have their support figuring it out. For a long time, I thought my parents were ashamed of me, despite the fact that I am very well spoken, am a talented teacher, and a very loving person, and I believe that they were. Now, I now I know that they are, but we missed out on a lot of years, and now they are close to the end of their journey.

    It is wonderful to hear this kind of OP, and makes me feel that the struggles for Gay Rights and Gay Visibility produced understanding, and even celebration of a parent who may potentially have a gay child. Thanks for that.
     
  17. Garyzenuf

    Garyzenuf Socialism is lovely.

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    Give him time, he'll get around to it. ;)
     
  18. Beanieboy

    Beanieboy Senior Veteran

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    Please tell me that I have not just opened up a Can of Christian Nation, and changing the government to a Theocracy for which it was supposedly intended by the Founding Fathers :eek:
     
  19. BigBadWlf

    BigBadWlf Guest

    Your brother in law sounds like a terribly sick person
     
  20. CreedIsChrist

    CreedIsChrist New Member

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    this is one reason why we are going the homeschooling route, so that the idea won't even pop in their mind because they will know nothing about it in the first place.. Most of these "experimental" stages happen in later middle school and high school. And if the H.S. is pushing this on our children and condoning unchristian behavior it will teach our children to rebel. Also children learn alot from immoral programs on the TV and thus many need to be screened. Children should not be taught sex ed in in middle school. I prefer to keep my childs innocence. This world today dosen't let children be children anymore. A young child should be busy playing with toys, baseball with his father, being read to and taught, and having fun with friends. A child won't ask awkward questions or getting in trouble when they are busy being who they are. You'll be surprised how well things turn out when you let nature take its course and don't force anything unatural upon them.

    And it is true. The gay community is laden with drugs, there is an enourmous meth problem within the gay community and many are associated with dangerous behavior such a raves and clubs where drugs and rape is common. That is where Jeffery Dahmer got all his victims from...
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
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