I wish I believed in God.. (moved)

IAmAnAgnostic

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Some backstory might be helpful. I am 22, and I have been an atheist (or an agnostic depending on your definition) since before I was 14 when I lost faith. Why? It was a culmination of a number of things. I disagreed with the morality of the brand of Christianity I was raised in, strongly disagreed with my father who was and is very religious and finding no evidence to support my faith.

Now I'd like to make one thing clear, I do not want to not believe. There is nothing that frightens me more than death and consequently not existing, and religion obviously offers a claim to avoid this. But I simply can not force myself to believe something I have so many problems with. (which I can discuss if you people so desire)

I guess what I am looking for is some evidence or philosophical reasoning on why God and more specifically the Christian God is something that should be believed and followed.
 

Catherineanne

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Some backstory might be helpful. I am 22, and I have been an atheist (or an agnostic depending on your definition) since before I was 14 when I lost faith. Why? It was a culmination of a number of things. I disagreed with the morality of the brand of Christianity I was raised in, strongly disagreed with my father who was and is very religious and finding no evidence to support my faith.

Now I'd like to make one thing clear, I do not want to not believe. There is nothing that frightens me more than death and consequently not existing, and religion obviously offers a claim to avoid this. But I simply can not force myself to believe something I have so many problems with. (which I can discuss if you people so desire)

I guess what I am looking for is some evidence or philosophical reasoning on why God and more specifically the Christian God is something that should be believed and followed.

Hi, nice to meet you. :)

It makes perfect sense to reject an inadequate version of who God is.

I think I would suggest you think about what you think God would need to be, and then compare it with the God found in Christ. Ignore everything else to start with; see if he personally lives up to what you believe in your heart to be true. Read the gospels, and see if you can find him there.

All else will follow from that.
 
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IAmAnAgnostic

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Hi, nice to meet you. :)

It makes perfect sense to reject an inadequate version of who God is.

I think I would suggest you think about what you think God would need to be, and then compare it with the God found in Christ. Ignore everything else to start with; see if he personally lives up to what you believe in your heart to be true. Read the gospels, and see if you can find him there.

All else will follow from that.
Nice to meet you as well.

Well, what I think God would need to be is more like that I know that I can't agree with the Catholic version of Christianity. So in other words I need God to not be Catholic. I can tell you more specifically why that is if you wish.
 
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paul1149

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If it helps at all, the early church was pretty big on the concept that "God does not dwell in houses made of stone". It's what, in fact, got the first martyr, Stephen, killed. You'll find several close paraphrases of it in the NT, especially in Acts, and several more allusions to us being the living stones of a new temple, corporately and individually the temple of the Holy Spirit. You hear it all the time, but it's critically true: it's not about religion, it's about relationship.

It would be a shame to allow your experiences to keep you from God. Even if the doctrine is right, we all - individuals and churches - have failings that pollute the message and can make it unpalatable to others. That's something we need to watch, but the truth is there are going to be stumbling blocks. It seems, though, that you are reaching out beyond yours, and that is a very good thing indeed.

When I was young I too wanted zero to do with God, and even less to do with Jesus. But the circumstances of life overruled my naivety and pride, and I began to seek Him. Still, Jesus was at the bottom of the list. But when I finally did encounter Him, He blew away all the others. No contest.
 
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Gordon Wright

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First, try to understand God. If you meditate on the Bible enough, and combine it with enough life experience, you start to understand some aspects of God's point of view. You can never completely understand a superior being, but you can get close enough for faith to seem very reasonable indeed. This is important: God has a point of view. There is a God's side of the story. Don't judge God without hearing Him out first.

This is what worked for me. It also helped a lot that I met a Christian who wasn't an idiot. She undid a lot of damage that some idiot believers had done.

As for church, set that aside for a while until you're ready. A bad church will make it harder to come to faith, and a good church will benefit you more if you wait until you're ready.
 
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FreeinChrist

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MOD HAT

Per the Statement of Purpose for Struggles by Non-Christians, this forum is for:

This is a struggle forum for non-christians where christians can provide support, advice and prayers.

This is in regards to life issues and not theological questions. IF you have a question about Christianity, the place to ask is
Exploring Christianity and not here.

This thread is being moved to Exploring Christianity.
 
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CNikki

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I'm likely not going to be much of help, but I will say that if you feel like you're compelled to Christianity then try checking out some sections of it than the one you were raised in. See how they differ and how accurate they are following their religious texts. I've been having a similar problem, though it's more like I'm on the fence as to what to believe for when it comes to the Abrahamic roots and the religions following it. Good luck.
 
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oi_antz

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Thanks for the replies guys, but I wonder if there is some way you could offer some reasoning to believe a specific denomination of Christianity or even Christianity in general, as my struggles are to have any faith at all.

If not then I guess my lack of faith will remain..
This is interesting for you to consider: Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life". He also said "if anyone wants to be my disciple, they must take up their cross and follow me". Saying that one who is a disciple of Jesus is then saying that they are following the discipline of truth even by sacrificing their own desires. Jesus confirms this in another statement: "He who wants to keep his life will lose it, but he that loses his life for my sake will keep it". He seems to be speaking about someone choosing to not use their physical present life to do what they want, and instead to use it for what He wants, and in return those who give up their ownership of their life to do His will are given everlasting life in a post-resurrected world, along with only those who also do the will of God.

So if that is the nature of Christianity: we do not live for ourselves, but we follow His discipline of truth (note: that is the constant turning away from sin and instead acting in a holy manner), then to go searching for a denomination to follow must be motivated by some desire. Check it out. What has motivated you to seek out Christianity? Isn't that a demonstration that those who approach Christianity are looking for something to fulfill their own desire? (Notice: it is not uncommon or abnormal, only it is not the Christian thing to do).

Rather, Jesus says "work hard to enter by the narrow gate, because the road to destruction is broad and many go that way". This is describing that so many people go and find a church that can give them a formula of assurance for their everlasting salvation, and if they adhere to the instructions of that denomination, they can have assurance of everlasting life. If that is what Christianity is, then people naturally ask "why do all the denominations disagree, and which is the right one?" - but notice this: if we are looking for assurance from a denomination, then we are seeking our salvation from fellow man. Those fellow men who we are looking to for guidance are passing away themselves!

See how Christianity is a relationship with God and not a formula? Do you see how the following of Jesus is the literal and real action of acknowledging the truth even when it means we must accept that what we want is not right? That's really the hardest thing, and probably if you do some searching of your soul, you will see it too, just as every Christian disciple does - there is a war within us between doing what we want that we know is not holy (sin), and doing what we know God wants us to do. Once you are able to sacrifice your own desire for sin in order to surrender your life to His way of living, then you will know that He has accepted you, and indeed you will know Him. It isn't easy though. Scriptures describe it as nailing the flesh to the cross. Killing the old self. The ritual of baptism represents this decision. But actually making that decision is challenging, essentially because of greed, and pride, and lust. Those things that make us want to live life to our own pleasure.
 
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IAmAnAgnostic, there was a time where I too said I no longer believed in God. During that time I felt so uneasy. I felt a real pulling on my heart. I knew it was God reeling my back in. When I examined myself, I found I was running from God because I was trying to justify myself. I came back to God, but I really wanted to own my faith. I really explored it in depth and am help to say, my faith has never been stronger. I think the fact that you say you don't believe but want to, is God pulling you in too. When I was exploring my faith I had a habit of saving the resources that helped me. After going through it I wanted to help others like yourself so I put them on YouTube. I don't want this to sound like I am trying to promote my YouTube channel, as you have truly been on my mind all afternoon. I can think of 3 series that I think could really help you. They are: 1. God, as he longs for you to see Him 2. Finding God when you need him the most 3. Why I Believe. These are all series by Chip Ingram, they are very ensightful. My channel is www.youtube.com/c/seedsongoodsoil and they are under my playlist. I really hope they help and you find your faith. God Bless
 
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Hawkins

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I posted this a while ago. Hope it helps.

Under the influence of secular education, everyone is treating any truth as a scientific truth which should be well evidenced. However in reality, not all truth is a scientific truth. For example, history as a category of truth is mostly without evidence. Humans basically have no access to history as a whole till an event or a figure is famous enough for humans at that time to document it/him down. Humans later will rely on faith in the document to get a clue on what had happened. If the grandpa of your grandpa is a no body, then you may never prove his existence (what he had said and done) with evidence.

Evidence is over emphasized under secular education. Humans basically don't rely on evidence at all to reach a truth. They rely more often on witnessing to reach a truth. Even in the case when the kind of truth can be evidenced, such as science, humans in majority don't bother to examine the evidence. You don't use a telescope to tell that earth is revolving around the sun. You rely on believing a small group of humans called scientists to get to the truth.

That being said, the difference between history and religion doesn't lay on whether things can be evidenced. The difference is that history is more believable as history is about daily matters we can speculate on a daily basis even nowadays. Religion however is more or less about supernatural encounters normal folks can hardly experience. It has nothing to do with evidence.

If God has a good reason to hide behind (and He does), the only way left for Him to keep humans informed of is by showing up to a small group of humans for them to write about Him, and for the rest of humans in later history to believe what is said about Him to reach the truth. There's no other way round. To put it another way, if God is a truth believing in what being said by His witnesses is the only way to reach such a truth. There's no other way round.

Not all the gods of other religions have a good reason to avoid direct encounters of humans. If the gods are superior and they really care about humans, they should show up to guide humans. They don't usually have a good reason to hide behind. The Christianity God has a good reason because He granted the covenant to humans. The covenant demands human faith for humans to be saved. If He shows up to everyone, it simultaneously means no humans can be saved at all.

If on the other hand He doesn't show up at all, then no humans can be informed of His existence and His requirements set forth for humans to follow. The only way which works is for Him to show up to the dedicated witnesses for them to write about Him then for the rest to believe.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Matthew 7:7 - Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

I guess what I am looking for is some evidence or philosophical reasoning on why God and more specifically the Christian God is something that should be believed and followed.

James 4:3 - Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss


If you want to know God you won't find Him in philosophical reasoning. You have to establish a line of communication with Him. Did you wait for some philosophical reasoning to have a relationship with your parents or your friends? If you do not believe in God because you lack clear evidence of his existence then there are many books or pamphlets or articles that you can find that will attempt to persuade you that such evidence exists which you can find convincing or not depending upon your personal requirements for proof. If, however, you do not believe in God because you disagree with how he created the world there is no rationality to the position and no way to use reason to dispel an emotional argument. There are some atheists that simply do not like the way that the world does not conform to how it would be if they were in charge. Then there are atheists that simply see no convincing evidence that a god exists. The latter is a rational position the former is an emotional one. which of these two types are you? The one that sees no evidence or the one that does not like the way things are and therefore concludes no god would make things this way.
 
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IAmAnAgnostic

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There are some atheists that simply do not like the way that the world does not conform to how it would be if they were in charge. Then there are atheists that simply see no convincing evidence that a god exists. The latter is a rational position the former is an emotional one. which of these two types are you? The one that sees no evidence or the one that does not like the way things are and therefore concludes no god would make things this way.


I would say that I am a combination of both, but that the lack of evidence is the bigger reason.
 
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Abandoned Barns

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I guess what I am looking for is some evidence or philosophical reasoning on why God and more specifically the Christian God is something that should be believed and followed.

"You can only apprehend the Infinite by a faculty that is superior to reason." - Plotinus

I don't think that you get to faith by evidence. Have you considered if you are capiable of faith in any other circumstance wherein God is not concerned?
 
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lutherangerman

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The afterlife claim of christianity is a good reason for me to believe in God too. But there are also other reasons. For example, why would I want to be my own God, my own Savior, when I am not able to be a God or a Savior to myself? I could blinden myself and say that I am mighty and could do and find all that I desire. But outside of my home this already stops succeeding and I'd be stupid to continue that path. The thing is that I need a lover who sticks to me through thick and thin. And as far as I understand God in Jesus Christ, He is willing to be that lover. He doesn't solve all my problems in a human fashion, but when I can trust him then all the problems don't matter so much anymore.

Furthermore, just consider the cross and how Jesus appears there. This is how we learn who God really is, how merciful and kind and willing to sacrifice his own life for us when that was needed to give us salvation. Jesus was weak on the Cross, but if you look at the effects of that cross, then Jesus in his weakness was still much mightier than men. Consider God's goodness, looking to reach you every day, with nature, the weather, animals, kind humans, parents, a girl maybe, etc.
 
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oi_antz

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I would say that I am a combination of both, but that the lack of evidence is the bigger reason.
Have you ever asked Him to give you sufficient evidence? Do you remember that aiki described doing this? Is there something that prevents you from doing this? Some people are afraid to do this, because they know what it would necessitate, and really deep down they are not willing. So they are torn between desires to know Him and to do what they know He would have them change.

Edit: I mentioned aiki's post here, but actually I have found he said it to someone else, so here is a link to read it because it is relevant for you: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/apostacy-and-salvation.7900833/page-2#post-68432285
 
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katerinah1947

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Some backstory might be helpful. I am 22, and I have been an atheist (or an agnostic depending on your definition) since before I was 14 when I lost faith. Why? It was a culmination of a number of things. I disagreed with the morality of the brand of Christianity I was raised in, strongly disagreed with my father who was and is very religious and finding no evidence to support my faith.

Now I'd like to make one thing clear, I do not want to not believe. There is nothing that frightens me more than death and consequently not existing, and religion obviously offers a claim to avoid this. But I simply can not force myself to believe something I have so many problems with. (which I can discuss if you people so desire)

I guess what I am looking for is some evidence or philosophical reasoning on why God and more specifically the Christian God is something that should be believed and followed.

Hi,
And hmmmmmm? Okay, so, like God is Real, but you don't know that. And, your teacher, your father was no help.
I am stumped right now. I have proofs, but they took ten years to do. Here's something. Jesus said he is written about by Moses. So, way back then and even in the New Teatament, Jesus is written about.
You can do, maybe just a portion of that ten year proof. You can test one or two statements in The Bible, that are so simple that you can make no errors, about what God said. Then see if they work.
If you have parents, I can probably guess that you have always been good to them ir tried to be. So, you know how that has gone so far. Do this next part, then compare the before and after results. Plus, tell no one that you are doing this. Plus be ruthlessly objective about your results. Try to find errors in each data point, meaning occurance.
Talking to anyone will change your results, before you have completed collecting enough incidents.
Ready. Test this:, to see if it is of God or not: "Honor thy father and thy mother."
When you start, the word honor, you will not understand. That problem will work its way out as you go along. Collect all the results from each interaction, when you honored your father or your mother, or both because those are the words.
After you have enough data, meaning there is a clear pattern in your results, you are done, with test one.
If you need more tests run them.
The point here is to, yourself only, can you prove that book wrong, right, or inconclusive, testing things that you don't know if God really said them or not, nor if The Bible is true or not.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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IAmAnAgnostic

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Have you ever asked Him to give you sufficient evidence? Do you remember that aiki described doing this? Is there something that prevents you from doing this? Some people are afraid to do this, because they know what it would necessitate, and really deep down they are not willing. So they are torn between desires to know Him and to do what they know He would have them change.

Edit: I mentioned aiki's post here, but actually I have found he said it to someone else, so here is a link to read it because it is relevant for you: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/apostacy-and-salvation.7900833/page-2#post-68432285


I have asked God for sufficient evidence. So far I have not witnessed anything that I would consider such.
 
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