1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

I want to know your thoughts on file sharing

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by s1mp13m4n, Mar 21, 2011.

  1. s1mp13m4n

    s1mp13m4n Newbie

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    I see it as borrowing, sharing, trying it out, not stealing if you go and make a purchase once you download/use it. In other words try before you buy. I can see why people do it...Microsoft has in my view no legit need to charge a few hundred $$$ for an oporating system or office suite. Charge some money yes...even $100 but not $400. I can see a CD costing $10 but not $20, same for a DVD movie. The way I see it making a copy of something for myself for personal use is not stealing.....it has been going on for years with zerox machines, tape decks, VCRs, etc. The only reason this is an issue to begin with is like Puff Daddy says in an older song "It's All About The Benjamins".
    If I own a legal copy of....oh I do not know....WOW 2011 and I want to make my friend a copy of it because I think some songs on the CD might help him.....is that stealing or sharing? I am sorry but I do not buy into that theory that says we are robbing the artist of money when you copy a CD for example. They would never miss my $0.50 they might have lost on me making a copy for a friend. Now if many people make that copy then yeah I can see that but the truth is there are way more people out there buying that filesharing. :) I am not saying that I am right or file sharing is right....it is just my thoughts on it. Again it is a gray area subject....and thanks to you all for keeping it calm and not flaming each other.
     
  2. selfinflikted

    selfinflikted Under Deck

    Messages:
    11,694
    Likes Received:
    12
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Let's be honest here. When I was big into "file sharing", I didn't once go out and buy the music I had just downloaded for free. Maybe there are people who actually do this, but I'm fairly certain the vast majority of file sharers do not go out and pay for music, they'll just download it for free.

    It's their property, and they can charge the public whatever they like. As long as people are willing to continue to pay exorbitant prices, they will continue to sell their products for that price. They have every right to do so. If you think that you're being asked to pay too much for their product, simply do not buy it. But that does not give you the right to obtain and use an illegal copy.

    How are songs on a CD going to "help" your friend?

    But you are. You've caused the owner of the property to lose money in potential sales. I know, I know - you think, well he's not missing my $0.50. No, he probably wouldn't. But if 250,000 people all did the same thing (which they do) then yes, he will be missing that income. Besides that, whether it's $0.05 or $2,000,000.000 - a loss is a loss.

    Source?

    I wouldn't do it personally, but I can't make your decisions for you. Just stop, think, and be honest with yourself before you choose to engage in file sharing. :)
     
  3. s1mp13m4n

    s1mp13m4n Newbie

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    Thank you for some perspective on this issue. I am not saying that I do it....I am wanting to understand....for the moral part and learn what the Bible would say....WWJD? :) I like your responces and questions you brought up, it does make you think. :) Thanks for the help.
     
  4. selfinflikted

    selfinflikted Under Deck

    Messages:
    11,694
    Likes Received:
    12
    Faith:
    Atheist
    I don't think Jesus would illegally share copyrighted material. ;)
     
  5. s1mp13m4n

    s1mp13m4n Newbie

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
  6. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

    Messages:
    22,700
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Catholic
    Most "starving artists" aren't leading anywhere near the romantic, poetic life we would like to imagine they are leading. They would like to earn a living at their craft and be fairly compensated for their intellectual property.

    And while some notable exceptions are tremendously overcompensated, most eke out a meager living doing what they love.
     
  7. ChrisLeishy

    ChrisLeishy The beginning of wisdom-knowing you know nothing

    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thats probably the key I think you hit the nail on the head. Imagine Jesus sitting beside you at your computer.
     
  8. s1mp13m4n

    s1mp13m4n Newbie

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    Thanks everyone, that pretty much settles it. :)
     
  9. Schneiderman

    Schneiderman Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Christian
    I don't understand your point in asking this question. No, it is not acceptable to steal any object. A song in and of itself is not an object, and when you download a song no tangible property changes hands.

    When you steal a CD from a shop you are actually depriving that shop of an object.

    When a song is downloaded, nobody is deprived of anything. For example, I do not buy music. In my entire life I have purchased one CD (with a gift card...), and the primary artist featured on that CD is long dead so the people who profited from that sale are his dirtbag relatives who exploit his music. Other than that I have never purchased any form of music. If file sharing was not available, I still would never purchase music. I'm not really that into it. Even the music that I have downloaded, I barely ever listen to. I'm not depriving anybody of any profit by downloading music that I otherwise would have simply not sought access to.
     
  10. Skavau

    Skavau Ode to the Forgotten Few

    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Humanist
    I tend to download music entirely unknown by the music industry, and so my only options (if I were to purchase it) would to be pay to have it shipped over here and wait ages or pay to electronically download it (many places not having the music I want).

    The ironic thing is that what is illegal, lets say, of me putting stereo mix on, playing a song from youtube and recording it through the sound card?

    (And concerning support, the artists I get need word of mouth to their existence just as much if not more as they do financial support).
     
  11. ProspectiveDarkness

    ProspectiveDarkness Newbie

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Atheist
    I torrent things all the time. As I don't have a job currently, I don't have the money to be buying things, so I just download them. Don't get me wrong, I would prefer to be buying things, but I don't have the money for things at the moment. When I do have the money, of course I'll go out and buy everything I've downloaded. Besides, in a few years, all the things I want to buy (CDs, BluRay movies, Ebooks) will all have gone down from their already inflated price, so I'd be saving money that would otherwise be wasted by retailers' theivery, but not still stealing.
     
  12. sandwiches

    sandwiches Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.

    Messages:
    6,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Atheist
    For me, copyright infringement isn't immoral. I always measure morality by how much harm or good it does. When I download a song, movie, book, etc and I don't pay for it, I don't cause to the copyright owners. If people want to claim that they lost money, I'd like for them show me the amount of money they had before I downloaded the song and after I downloaded. If they claim that they lost out on a sale, I'd like for them point to me the machine that enables them to know I would've bought the songs, books, etc.
     
  13. lawtonfogle

    lawtonfogle My solace my terror, my terror my solace.

    Messages:
    11,471
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Christian
    The true violate with this is privacy. You are invading their privacy by using their creation without their permission, but we are entering a world where privacy is second rate and barely even exist. Violating privacy to find a criminal is becoming more common place. Read some of the EULA's on software and see the privacy violations they try to sneak past you.
     
  14. plindboe

    plindboe Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Atheist
    It's amazing how people will oversimplify this issue. Saying that every download is a lost sale is oversimplification in the extreme. Calling it stealing is oversimplification. I'm amazed by how fanatical some people become with these oversimplifications.

    It's also interesting how the anti-download crowd tends to ignore any promotional effects that downloading can have. I never hear this issue mentioned even though it's likely to have a significant effect on sales.

    Whether sales are overall harmed or helped by downloading is not as easy of an issue as many people imagine it to be. Personally I don't know, and I think in reality it probably depends on the circumstances, for instance how famous a band/composer is already and how much promotion they have, but the oversimplifications concerning this issue I'd like to see go away.

    Peter :)
     
  15. sandwiches

    sandwiches Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.

    Messages:
    6,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Atheist
    This is a new one for me. How am I invading the author's privacy by COPYING a file from some random person's computer?
     
  16. Bungle_Bear

    Bungle_Bear Whoot!

    Messages:
    3,728
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Because the person who copied the file to the computer and then shared it didn't ask the author's permission. Agreed that's not necessarily an invasion of privacy but I think that's what they're getting at.
     
  17. sandwiches

    sandwiches Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.

    Messages:
    6,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Atheist
    If that's the case, then I disagree that not asking permission to copy is the same as invading people's privacy.

    I have a feeling this will turn into another semantics game of conflations and equivocations. :doh:
     
  18. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding

    Messages:
    8,293
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Eastern-Orthodox
    My thoughts on file sharing:

    YouTube - DIRE STRAITS - MONEY FOR NOTHING

    All the "artistes", the actors, musicians and writers, love to claim that they're only in it for the love of creating their "art". I remember after Springsteen got rich in the '70's he famously said he would clean toilets if that's what it took to allow him to play his music. Well, Bruce, you can come play at my house anytime. I'll even loan you my Clorox and brush to clean the toilet.
     
  19. sandwiches

    sandwiches Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.

    Messages:
    6,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Atheist
    Yep. Selfishly and arbitrarily, I believe that those who truly love their art will do it regardless of how much they get paid. There's millions of artists out there already making great music, paintings, drawings, books, video games, programs, etc. So, to me the old argument of "If people stop paying for music, then no one will make music" is complete bullcorn, specially in this day and age when the barriers to entry have never been lower.
     
  20. highlife

    highlife New Member

    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    Seeing as how my time is valuable the hoops one has jump through to find "free" stuff on bittorrent, etc is alot more expensive than just doing an itunes down load for a buck. You could chew up 8-9 hrs just reformating your hard drive to deal with viruses and at 8-9 hrs at 40$/hr thats like 360$, I will just pay my 20$ for the DVD or 1$ for a song or just listen to pandora or online radio.

    Now MS office or autocad thats another story, however you can always just register for a class for a few hundred bucks (since your going to have to learn how to use the software anyways) and get 1000$ software at student rate for like 100$ and then you get tech support.

    I have found the "free" stuff is not really free, if it takes me longer than 2 min to hunt and peck around for something thats worth 1$ then its not worth it. Pandora is cool because I can listen to music while im doing a training class or working on my Masters degree homework and if I like a song I can just click on it and it adds it to a list and im guessing I can just purchase the list on itunes in a few clicks then I have it in my truck and I dont have to mess around with bit torrants (I so hate bittorrants, the web sites look like spam and unless you have a friend that knows of the super secret ones you going no where fast).

    Sin seems good on the surface but it ends up costing us more in the end than just doing things lagitimatly in the first place. If your broke you can just listen to pandora and not buy the songs, heck I have been listening to it for months and have built up a like list but still have not actually bought anything yet.