I Obey, Therefore I Am Loved and Accepted.

[FredVB]

I would say Yahweh God loves all, therefore with the creation there was the plan for redemption, with the great sacrifice that we cannot fathom, showing such love, and Yahweh is not willing that any should perish, but desires that all come to this redemption with repentance to life with sin, which is what separates any from God, with being redeemed through Christ with faith in him from such life with sin. With this obeying is made possible in such a way that it wasn't, but we can tend to think we have come to that, when we should avoid thinking that so easily, we easily miss things we still do that are not according to the perfection of God's will for us, which should be looked at more carefully than it is.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

You will never overcome your sin until you recognise and acknowledge your sin....and with your present attitude that will never happen.

Great point. I've often said this to people who refuse to call their sin, sin. Forgiveness is the treatment for sin.

There is no cure unless you acknowledge it as sin and confess it.

 

[brotherjerry]

Jason it get's funnier every time I talk to you.

In order to correct another believer there is a certain way you go about doing that. Nobody here has followed the proper Biblical method of correcting me here.

So is what you mean by the "Biblical method of correcting" people to put up a post that asks the question "What evidence do you have in your life that says you know God?"...is that what you meant by the Biblical method of correcting? Or were you referring to Matthew 18?
I mean Matthew 18 is the way to address issues in the church, agreed. So if that is what you were going for on the "correct" method and you posted the "evidence" thread, then you did not follow your own advice, which you claim is the Biblical way, and the proper way...so then are you saying you sinned?

you have to shut off your moral compass or what you know to be good in order to believe the way you do.

Here is the funny thing about this...turning off my moral compass is exactly what we are supposed to do...we are to trust in God as to what is good and what is evil, just as it was before man fell in the Garden. It is called trusting in Christ to lead us. It is us that "can do nothing without Him (John 15:5)", and doing nothing means we cannot tell what is good and what is evil either without Him. That is why no amount of "works" or proclaimed righteousness will earn or keep our salvation, because we cannot do anything.

I do not believe I am sinning now and I have faith that God is able to help me overcome sin this very day. So to say that I will continue in sin when you do not know the future is just you being negative as a result of your wrong belief.

Yep God helps us deal with sin every day. And Steeno did not say you would continue "in sin" he said you "still sin", and I can guarantee that you will still commit the acts of sin until the day you die. There is a difference in being a slave to sin (being in sin), and commiting acts of sin. We are commanded to follow the laws of the land as well...so if you go 56 in a 55 then you have sinned. You don't quite stop at a stop sign...you have sinned. Did not wait for the signal to cross a crosswalk, you have sinned. Did not claim the $50 gift you got from grandma on your income taxes, you have sinned. Let alone the countless infractions made every day that you may or may not even realize because the laws of our land are complex and riddled with silliness...but they are still the laws.

Since when is it a burden in owning a car? Please name me some gifts in this life whereby you do not have to take care of them that have actual worthwhile benefits to your life? I say this because Jesus illustrated spiritual truth by real world examples.

Since when is a car eternal? When did a car become spiritual? And obviously you have never owned a car..or if you did you never put gas in it, gave it the oil change every 3000 miles, tune up every 60,000 miles, timing belts, battery replacement, etc, etc. Even when someone gives you a car...it is not free if you have to maintain the car afterwards.

If you want to equate salvation to someone giving you a car...then with the gift of the Salvation Car, you never have to put gas in it, it never breaks down, no parts ever get worn out and need replacing.

YOu want a real world example that Jesus used? John 4:14 "but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall NEVER THIRST" repeated in John 6:35 "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in me will never thirst."

but while we are at the parables.....
Matthew 9:16-17 "But no one puts a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and a worse tear results. Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruinded; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved."
We see a parable that matches up wtih what Paul says about becoming new creatures in Christ. Old things are done away with...the old cloth is gone, the old wineskin is gone. You cannot put the new spiritual you into the old. And it says when that is done, both are preserved. You cannot be a new wineskin and then become an old wineskin and get new wine. And the Bible never gives an example of somone being a new creature and turning into the old creature...not once.

Matthew 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden"
What does it say about that city? Can it be hidden? Nope sure can't.

Luke 6:46-49 contrasts two builders...one who hears the word and puts them to practice (the saved person) and one who hears and does not (the unsaved). This is just like what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:21-23 with those that claimed to do a great many works in the name of Jesus but Jesus said "I knew knew you".

We could go on but there really is no need...never an example of someone who was saved losing their salvation, and then one step further, never someone who was saved, losing their salvation, then getting it back.

 

[Steeno7]

See, everyone here is screaming..... you are focused on your self by your works. But God commands us to do these things. How would it be bad to do God's Commandments? Yet, everyone here makes an allowance for sin. But see, sin..... is all about your self and not about God. So folks have things backwards here.

Also, I believe God does the good work in me.
So I cannot take the credit for any good done in my life.

It's you who is making "allowance" for your sin.

 

[Demetrius194]

? Please name me some gifts in this life whereby you do not have to take care of them

I agree: the gift of Redemption is free, but we still need to apply effort to keep it. When someone hands me a million dollars, but I get drunk as hell and loose the bag somewhere on the street as I stumble back home, it would still be a free gift, but only a gone gift now Of course God is so good, that He will give it to me again, if I come to Him again and receive it. The thing about it though, God is not a vending machine, He will not just eject the item upon the pressing of a button, He is a living being, who wants us to grow spiritually, and so He will not always give us eternal life again when we say: "thank you Jesus I receive salvation again now, just faith. Praise you Jesus that I'm saved"! Instead, He might first want us to bring some repentance on the table (Acts 3:19), some sincere regret (2 Corinthians 7:10), before He would do it. And if we don't, we may not feel saved when we say the above, our faith may not receive at that time, because God would just withhold giving us faith, since He is the giver of all good thing.

The reason why some people believe that Salvation cannot be lost, is because they do not understand what it is, or don't know the Scripture. Salvation is Jesus Christ Himself, the Living Word of the Trinity, because He is Eternal Life, and whoever has Him, will not even come to the Judgement (John 5:24). But did not Jesus, having come in the flesh, speak and say to depart from certain people? Did not Apostle Paul also say to depart from certain people? Now, if Jesus is a hypocrite telling us to do what He doesn't do Himself, then fine, but He is not, so He has to obey His own command too. So He WILL leave us if we are a hypocrite or someone who does not "walk" according to the teachings we have read in the New Testament, i.e. if we don't obey those teachings of the New Testament which we came to know. It starts like this: first guilt--a weak throbbing pain of conscience and a sudden flash of understanding of the very thing your conscience is convicting us of. Then, after a short while, boom--He is gone. No longer is there meekness, but arrogance--"I claim, you must!", hatred towards people, wrath, vexatious comments, rudeness and disobedience of every kind.

Most people ignore what their conscience is telling them, they think it's the devil, the accuser, trying to lead them astray from their faith in the irrevocability of Redemption towards them. Not only they sin against the Holy Spirit who it is convicting them through their conscience, giving them guilt, but they also neglect to quickly deal with guilt, to deal with this rush order to repent or perish, before the guilt sours up and rots, and as a hot coal burns a hole in their hearts, causing the Spirit to flow out like wine, their salvation to be lost. They have long seared their conscience in brushing off their guilt, and they do not realize that they are poor, blind and naked.

But by their deeds, by their fruit they can be understood what they are--their own deeds testify of their state.

 

[Steeno7]

I agree: the gift of Redemption is free, but we still need to apply effort to keep it. When someone hands me a million dollars, but I get drunk as hell as loose the bag somewhere on the street as I stumble back home, it would still be a free gift, but only a gone gift now Of course God is so good, that He will give it to me again, if I come to Him again and receive it. The thing about it though, God is not a vending machine, He will not just eject the item upon the pressing of a button, He is a living being, who wants us to grow spiritually, and so He will not always give us eternal life again when we say: "thank you Jesus I receive salvation again now, just faith. Praise you Jesus that I'm saved"! Instead, He might first want us to bring some repentance on the table (Acts 3:19), some sincere regret (2 Corinthians 7:10), before He would do it. And if we don't, we may not feel saved when we say the above, our faith may not receive at that time, because God would just withhold giving us faith, since He is the giver of all good thing.

The reason why some people believe that Salvation cannot be lost, is because they do not understand what it is, or don't know the Scripture. Salvation is Jesus Christ Himself, the Living Word of the Trinity, because He is Eternal Life, and whoever has Him, will not even come to the Judgement (John 5:24). But did not Jesus speak and say to depart from certain people? Did not Apostle Paul also say to depart from certain people? Now, if Jesus is a hypocrite telling us to do what He doesn't do Himself, then fine, but He is not, so He has to obey His own command too. So He WILL leave us if we are a hypocrite or someone who does not "walk" according to the teachings you have read in the New Testament, i.e. if we don't obey those teachings of the New Testament which we came to know. It starts like this: first guilt--a weak throbbing pain of conscience and a sudden flash of understanding of the very thing your conscience is convicting us of. Then, after a short while, boom--He is gone. No longer is there meekness, but arrogance--"I claim, you must!", hatred towards people, wrath, vexatious comments, rudeness and disobedience of every kind.

Most people ignore what their conscience is telling them, they think it's the devil, the accuser, trying to lead them astray from their faith in the irrevocability of Redemption towards them. Not only they sin against the Holy Spirit who it is convicting them through their conscience, giving them guilt, but they also neglect to quickly deal with guilt, to deal with this rush order to repent or perish, before the guilt sours up and rots, and as a hot coal burns a hole in their hearts, causing the Spirit to flow out like wine, their salvation to be lost. They have long seared their conscience in brushing off their guilt, and they do not realize that they are poor, blind and naked.

But by their deeds, by their fruit they can be understood what they are--their own deeds testify of their state.

Hey, surprise, Jason "likes" your post. LOL.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I already have. Did you hear the one about the two alcoholics?
I have mentioned this one several times.
Do you want me to repeat it?


....

No please. Not again

 

[ToBeLoved]

It's you who is making "allowance" for your sin.

I've never heard someone talk so much about what God is doing in their life that wasn't a Televangelist with a number to call to donate at the bottom of the screen.

 

[Demetrius194]

To love God and neighbor IS obedience ... We are not even capable of love (obedience) until we are accepted

Then what constitutes accepting Christ's Salvation by faith, if not obedience to God? For God told us: you gotta believe in order to be saved--this is a commandment just as "love one another" is a commandment. Don't you agree these things are both "commandments"? If we don't love brethren, we are in darkness and don't know Him. If we don't believe, we are not saved. I see a similarity here.

But how can we do it then, if we really must love God first, to "believe" first, in order to be loved? For we cannot love Him first, as you say?

My personal view here is that God puts a measure of His Spirit into when we are still unbelievers, which "draws" us to the point of calling on Him in prayer and receiving salvation: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him". So, we do have to obey to be loved, to be blessed. It's only a matter of how do we get the Spirit to love Him first, which again, a measure of which He has to give us first, or we are doomed, unable to have faith.

A question arises: how then can a person receive salvation if he/she already has it, the Holy Spirit, the Salvation itself, the Eternal Life, which if anyone has, he/she won't even be coming to the Judgement, according to John 5:42: "... has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life". The answer to this question is as follows, I believe: in such a preliminary state, having the Holy Spirit, we also have guilt for things we have done while in the unsaved state, or at least guilt for things that had caused us to become unsaved in the first place, if we were earlier a saved Christian. This guilt is not yet taken away by means of our reception of Redemption by faith. But guilt is like manna: it quickly sours and starts to have worms and to stink really awfully, making "Moses" (a type for God) angry: "However, some of them paid no attention to Moses; they kept part of it until morning, but it was full of maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them". That means the person now has no Spirit again, since Salvation (which is the same as the Spirit) means peace with God, yet now there is but wrath on God's part towards the person. But God may try again in a moment to draw us.

As for obeying God once we become saved, I think we should just keep our conscience always clear, because through our conscience God lets us know we are doing something wrong. Of course we can also do something good on our own accord, and the more we do, the more favor we gain before God, the more eagerly He will hear us if we ask Him for something--see the Beatitudes to prove that, which show that (at least additional) blessings come when we do the Word. Bad conscience ruins faith (1 Tim. 1:19), but faith is the criteria for us continuing to be saved. And what is guilt--it is an alarm to say that our conscience will be ruined in a moment if we don't immediately pray to God and resolve the issue He is warning us about through this guilt: "I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It has corrected you.

You are aware and you choose the way not of God.

Your call because you determine your own fate.

I can say the same for you.
The difference between us is that Scripture backs up what I am saying and also the real world, as well.
In addition, I have seen how Eternal Security has destroyed countless lives, too.

In other words, you would have to explain in detail each verse I have brought forth in detail so as to show that the Bible is not talking plainly in tons of passages. You would also have to provided me with a real world example to illustrate the goodness of Eternal Security; And you would have to show me that the lives destroyed by Eternal Security did not actually happen. Can you do all that? My guess is that you can't.

Also, over the years in my discussion involving Eternal Security, the Bible is not even discussed by many in some cases. Instead, I am attacked on a personal level instead. Why? Because Eternal Security does not exist in the Scriptures. People are getting upset because they can't defend their beliefs (and they know they are wrong deep down). So a Bible discussion turns into a slam fest against the Conditional Security Proponent. This to me does not sound like the actions of what I would call God's people who are supposed to be loving and good. For what are you doing right now? Are you having a loving and respectful discussion with the Scriptures? Or are you just involved in a slam fest?

For Jesus essentially said others will speak all manner of evil against us falsely.

....

 

[Rick Otto]

We have defended our beliefs.
We just disagree.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I can say the same for you.
The difference between us is that Scripture backs up what I am saying and also the real world, as well.
In addition, I have seen how Eternal Security has destroyed countless lives, too.

In other words, you would have to explain in detail each verse I have brought forth in detail so as to show that the Bible is not talking plainly in tons of passages. You would also have to provided me with a real world example to illustrate the goodness of Eternal Security; And you would have to show me that the lives destroyed by Eternal Security did not actually happen. Can you do all that? My guess is that you can't.

Also, over the years in my discussion involving Eternal Security, the Bible is not even discussed by many in some cases. Instead, I am attacked on a personal level instead. Why? Because Eternal Security does not exist in the Scriptures. People are getting upset because they can't defend their beliefs (and they know they are wrong deep down). So a Bible discussion turns into a slam fest against the Conditional Security Proponent. This to me does not sound like the actions of what I would call God's people who are supposed to be loving and good. For what are you doing right now? Are you having a loving and respectful discussion with the Scriptures? Or are you just involved in a slam fest?

For Jesus essentially said others will speak all manner of evil against us falsely.

....

This is a gospel issue, which means that Christians will fight you tooth and nail over it. You are denying the very work of the cross of Christ!

Paul had a few choice words for the false teachers who were adding works to faith, as you are (read Galatians) so, I think that most here have been pretty restrained in dealing with you, considering the severity of your error, which has eternal consequences.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The difference between us is that Scripture backs up what I am saying and also the real world, as well.

..

Well in reply to your real world examples to explain scripture I don't think that they are really great. For example, you used the example of a car in reference to your belief that there are other things than only faith.

Like the gift of a car that requires maintenance. You are taking something very spiritual and talking about a car.

Doesn't seem like a good 'life' example to me because a car will always break down.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I can say the same for you.
The difference between us is that Scripture backs up what I am saying and also the real world, as well.
In addition, I have seen how Eternal Security has destroyed countless lives too

....

For every example you may have, I have 10 people who are out doing great things for God without living in daily fear. All your examples are of course negative, but there are many more doing awesome things.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I can say the same for you.
The difference between us is that Scripture backs up what I am saying and also the real world, as well.
In addition, I have seen how Eternal Security has destroyed countless lives, too.

In other words, you would have to explain in detail each verse I have brought forth in detail so as to show that the Bible is not talking plainly in tons of passages. You would also have to provided me with a real world example to illustrate the goodness of Eternal Security; And you would have to show me that the lives destroyed by Eternal Security did not actually happen. Can you do all that? My guess is that you can't.

Also, over the years in my discussion involving Eternal Security, the Bible is not even discussed by many in some cases. Instead, I am attacked on a personal level instead. Why? Because Eternal Security does not exist in the Scriptures. People are getting upset because they can't defend their beliefs (and they know they are wrong deep down). So a Bible discussion turns into a slam fest against the Conditional Security Proponent. This to me does not sound like the actions of what I would call God's people who are supposed to be loving and good. For what are you doing right now? Are you having a loving and respectful discussion with the Scriptures? Or are you just involved in a slam fest?

For Jesus essentially said others will speak all manner of evil against us falsely.

....

If 20 people are telling you the same thing, one would do well to wonder what you are saying that gives so many this same impression.

The heart is deceitful above all things the Bible warns. That is because we make excuses to why we hear things so we can dismiss them. You would do well to consider the intense pattern of people with all different theologies that say the same things in their replied to you.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If 20 people are telling you the same thing, one would do well to wonder what you are saying that gives so many this same impression.

The heart is deceitful above all things the Bible warns. That is because we make excuses to why we hear things so we can dismiss them. You would do well to consider the intense pattern of people with all different theologies that say the same things in their replied to you.

That won't budge Jason, as, in his mind, we are all on the wide road, but he is of the few and faithful who keep themselves on the narrow path. The more we disagree with him the more convinced he is that he's right.

 

[Steeno7]

That won't budge Jason, as, in his mind, we are all on the wide road, but he is of the few and faithful who keep themselves on the narrow path. The more we disagree with him the more convinced he is that he's right.

Sad isn't it? William G. McAdoo summed it up pretty succinctly.....

“It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument.”

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Sad isn't it? William G. McAdoo summed it up pretty succinctly.....

“It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument.”

It's sad that the fullness and super-abundance of what Christ has done for us is ignored. He provided a full salvation, beginning to end, yet many who start by faith quickly revert to the flesh to finish what God had begun. I know, because I was one of them for 20 years!

 

[brotherjerry]

Jason if Scripture backs you up, can you point to one person in the Bible that was said to have had salvation and then lost it? Or an example where one lost their salvation and then gained it back?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Then what constitutes accepting Christ's Salvation by faith, if not obedience to God?

Why are you adding something to the gospel that is not even there.

We receive the gift of salvation when we come to God in faith for what His Son did on the cross. Dying for our sins, so we are justified in Him.

That's the simple gospel. Obedience is NOT part of the gospel.

Obedience comes later because we are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved. The Holy Spirit working in us to change our hearts and minds about sin and what it means to be Godly. It is this changing of mind and heart by the Holy Spirit that leads to obedience and changes in us.

But we do not bring that to salvation.