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I need some help guys...(Only those that are Biblically sound)

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by BigChrisfilm, Jan 25, 2007.

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  1. JacobHall86

    JacobHall86 Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

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    why exactly do you think thats funny?
     
  2. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    I don't want to tell you, I'll let you get laughed at first.
     
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  3. JacobHall86

    JacobHall86 Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

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    Is it becauseyou know that the Sun is the center of the Universe, because thats what everything revolves around and want to hold onto a fleeting idea that maybe just maybe the joke of a congregation you belong to is totally full of crap and when one card in the house you built is removed the whole thing falls?
     
  4. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    ROFL
     
  5. JacobHall86

    JacobHall86 Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

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    have fun being totally wrong short bus.
     
  6. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    In case you feel singled out, rest assured that I am not referring solely to you.

    Oh BTW, the creationist take on the redshift findings is bunk. "Less than one in a trillion" my foot. Someone just made up that number on the spot (as JacobHall accurately predicted would happen). Sorry, but the earth remains decidedly not the center of the universe. That the redshifts show earth to be the center of the universe is an obvious result of general relativity. If you took readings from Mars, they would show you that Mars is the center of the universe. Of course you would then have to then deal with Martian geocentric creationists, who would insist that Lord Ares created Mars to occupy a special place in the cosmos.

    Whether or not you know it, if you believe in geocentrism (in any form, including so-called "geocentricity"), then you most certainly do reject gravity. Sorry Richard, but you just can't believe in geocentrism and gravity at the same time. Pick your poison...well, actually you should pick gravity, since only geocentrism is poison.

    He may be referring to a result of general relativity I mentioned several weeks ago: that technically every point in the universe is the center of the universe. But don't worry, because I have no intention of laughing at you. On a local scale, the Solar System is a gravitationally bound system. So unless you're considering a larger scale structure like the entire Milky Way Galaxy, it's approximately accurate to say that the Sun is the center of the universe.
     
  7. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    How does this work? I thought JacobHall was saying that the sun's gravitationnal pull was strong enough to pull the entire universe.

    Btw, who else believes in Geocentricity other than me on all of CF?

    I thought anything other than acentricity was considered pseudo science.
     
  8. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    Also, you are trying to tell me that in any frame of reference, all of the other galaxies out there will look like they are moving away from us? Even if we were to look from another galaxy's point of view?

    Answersingenesis certainly does not reject general relativity, they aren't even geocentrist, they are galactocentrists (If that's what you want to call it).
     
  9. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    It seemed fairly clear from Jacob's earlier posts that he was referring to the Solar System. Of course, maybe he really did think that the Sun is at the center of our galaxy. I take no issue with this, because I know that if I tell Jacob that modern science tells us that the Sun is nowhere near the center of the galaxy, he will listen to science instead of staunchly adhering to a tradition of man. The reason I take issue with geocentrist creation scientists is because they refuse to listen to genuine science, and add their own teachings to Scripture.

    And you should also be upset with these people, because they've led you and your whole church congregation astray.

    BigChrisFilm and Chris777 seemed quite sympathetic to it. You'll have to ask them if they actually believe in it or not.

    I hate to say this, but the vast majority of the creation science out there (probably all of it) is pseudoscience. I say this as someone who believes in the infallibility of the Bible: creation "scientists" really need to work on their academic integrity. Who, according to the KJV, is the father of lies?
     
  10. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    Satan, why?
     
  11. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    That is precisely correct. The guys who live in the Andromeda galaxy, and who are making cosmological observations, will see their own galaxy as the center of the universe. Who knows? Maybe they'll come to earth by Stargate and attack us infidels for teaching the New Age doctrine that "all reference frames are equally valid?"

    Sorry, but that's wrong too. The Milky Way isn't the center of the universe.

    You know, I've never understood why Christians, of all people, would claim that the earth is the center of the universe. How arrogant it is to think that man is the greatest of God's creations. If greatness is measured by obedience to God, then surely man is the worst. It would seem to me that God put us in the middle of nowhere to instill in man a degree of humility, and show us that we can only be at the center of his creation by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. Geocentrism doesn't even work on a theological level, which is why it is utterly worthless.
     
  12. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    You've just identified the founder of the geocentrist movement. See why I encourage you so vehemently to discard this doctrine?
     
  13. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    Btw, why is it that you say in order for me to accept gravity, I must discard geocentricity?
     
  14. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    Because if geocentrism in any form were true, then the theory of gravity would be patently false. Your so-called geocentricity, for example, supposes that there are imaginary forces acting on every single star in the universe to make them deceptively move in just the right directions for us to believe that the earth orbits the Sun. It also supposes that these same imaginary forces act on all the planets to make them look like Newtonian gravity is true.

    Let me put it in terms you can relate to. Believing in geocentrism and gravity is like believing that both Jesus and Mohammad are prophets of God.
     
  15. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    But geocentrists have answers to all of this. If I'm not mistaken Newton believed in the Ptolemy model.
     
  16. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    That's the problem: geocentrists have all the wrong answers. Their answers don't work, they are physically incorrect. Most of them are just blatent lies meant to keep their followers in line.

    BTW you are mistaken; Newton did not believe in the Ptolemy model.
     
  17. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    " The unifying and predictive power of his laws was integral to the scientific revolution, the advancement of heliocentrism, "

    The scientific revolution hasn't accured yet, so this is why I ask.
     
  18. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    Btw, there's something you need to know arun, either way I win this "debate". If I can show that the earth is exclusively the center of the universe (which I haven't done), I win. But I don't have enough of an understanding of science just yet to be able to show this.

    If I don't, then I will cling to the theory of general relativity and state that I believe the earth is in the center of the universe because any point in the universe can be used as the center.

    "The geocentrists that are closest to the scientific mainstream accept essentially all the observations of the mainstream. They point to the theory of general relativity, which says that all physical phenomena can be described and explained self-consistently in any frame of reference. Since the current state of physics does not single out the geocentric frame of reference as special in any way, this group claims the geocentric frame is special for alternative religious reasons." - Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_geocentrism

    If you feel that the statement made on the wikipedia page is wrong, then by all means edit it.
     
  19. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    In Newton's written works, he used a heliocentric model. In fact he used his theory of Newtonian gravity to predict the proper orbits of the planets.

    Sorry Richard, but science just doesn't work that way. Saying "I win" does nothing to justify your point.

    No offense intended, but if you don't know what a metric tensor is, then you probably shouldn't be talking about general relativity. It's a difficult subject that some of the preeminent physicists in the world devote their lives to, and it's just a tad bit of hubris to claim a greater knowledge of the subject than them. It turns out that you can't arbitrarily pick the earth as the center of the universe. Since the Milky Way Galaxy is a gravitationally bound anisotropic system, the only point that can be defined as the center of the galaxy is the actual center of the galaxy.

    Even if your above statement were true (and it isn't), then it would be like saying, "all religions are equally valid, so this proves that Christianity is true." This is the philosophical equivalent of moral relativism.
     
  20. JacobHall86

    JacobHall86 Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

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    People with this "Im better than you attitude" do 0 good for the gospel.

    Kids like you (I use the word Kid not because of your age, but because of your lack of maturity) are the reason I wanted nothing to do with Christians in High school. Stop being a tool about everything, go outside westboro Baptist and learn about how the real world works.
     
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