i just figured out as to why critics who believe the bible to be inerrant attack the Book of Mormon. They think that we believe the Book of Mormon to be inerrant. They love to go on about what they perceive as mistakes. We don't think the Book of Mormon is without error. It doesn't make any difference to Mormons whether or not the bible or the Book of Mormon is not perfect. We focus of what the true intent now suppose to get across to us
I just figured it out
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seekingsolace
Bah
I think it's a little more than that. You have to remember Christians will see mormonism as a cult that caught on. More or less how others view all religions including Christianity.
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That's only one reason for some critics. Some people criticize just to criticize. Some people fear something outside of the protestantism they've always heard. Some people just have always heard someone criticize Mormons and repeat the process without knowing why. Some have really deep theological concerns. Some are really into histosity for the basis of their testimony.
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Personally I think Christians misuse the word "cult." A cult historically has been a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. For instance, within Roman Catholicism you have the "cult" of the Virgin Mary, but Catholicism is not a cult. Likewise one can talk about the Temple Cult within the ancient Hebrew religion. There is also the sociological definition of cult which is a religious movement deriving its inspiration from outside of the predominant religious culture, leading to a high degree of tension between the group and the more mainstream culture surrounding it. They differ from sects in that sects are products of religious schism and therefore maintain a continuity with traditional beliefs and practices, while cults arise spontaneously around novel beliefs and practices. In that context all independent religions start out as 'cults.'
However, Christians tend to apply the term to any group they regard as heretical, giving it a satanic connotation. I submit that the modern Christian use of the term "cult" is very cultish.
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seekingsolace
Bah
I don't feel I used the word 'cult' improperly. Was speaking more of a generic observation.
Thank you for the time taken in your definitions however.
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Some may but we are taught that even though it was translated through the gift and power of God man still can screw it up
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Okay this is my first time to post here, not sure how it's going to work out.
I think we understand prophets and scripture differently than traditional Christian. They imagine that every word in the Bible flowed from God's mouth (except God doesn't have a mouth) into the prophet's ear and down into his pen. But we have this passage from Nephi " And upon these I write the things of my soul, and many of the scriptures which are engraven upon the plates of brass. For my soul delighteth in the scriptures, and my heart pondereth them, and writeth them for the learning and the profit of my children." 2Ne 4:15. So we understand unless it says 'thus saith the Lord' a lot of what we read is the prophets own righteous feelings with his limited knowledge. It was Paul who wrote "we see through a glass darkly".
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ChetSinger
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Myself, I criticize it because I think it's a work of fiction intended by Joseph Smith to deceive. That's all.
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Well then explain how he did it and how did he convince 11 men to testify they saw the plates and an angel?
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I don't know much about Mormon history, but I read the wiki on Martin Harris. I assume he was one of the 11 men. Harris seems to have been a very confusing person. His inconsistent behavior and story reminds me of Bob Lazar who claimed to know that Area 51 was studying ET spacecraft. Some people simply enjoy the hoax or the attention or the power or the money. Sometimes their hoaxes get out of control.
Of course the Mormon claims are no less likely than the claims of any other religion. Maybe they are true, but there are a lot of reasons that people might make false or wildly exaggerated claims.
I don't mean to offend anybody with this post - just giving my opinions. I think Mormons seem to be fine people, and their reasons for believing are no sillier than any other theist.
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^Also in one version of Harris's claim, he saw the golden tablets while he was in a trance. Hypnosis is very powerful.
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ChetSinger
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I suggest reading the testimony of Martin Harris' wife, Lucy. According to her, Martin saw Smith's "Gold Bible business" as a money-making opportunity and believed Joseph could see anything he wanted in his "stone".
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ChetSinger
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I don't want to give offense, but I guess I am when I say I think he was smooth con man with the gift of gab. There are testimonies against him, too. At www.carm.org are a collection of some of them.
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No offence taken, with so much anti stuff out there it’s hard to discern the truth.
Although he was the first person outside of Joseph’s family to accept his story Martin Harris seems to be the one that question Joseph’s account of his visions the most.
He was 22 years older than Joseph and his wife was very doubting, can’t blame her. He was hard working and well respected in Palmyra, New York. He had been elected to a number of offices. Then all of a sudden he put in the position of helping this young man who says an angel has shown up and told him where these gold plates are.
He tried several ways to challenge Joseph including taking some of the characters or examples of the writing on the Book of Mormon plates to New York City. He took them to an expert there who assured him they were real. It was enough to convince him to mortgage his farm to help finance it.
He helped as a scribe for a time but when he lost the first 116 pages he lost his calling. But he did not turn on Joseph, even when he lost his home he did not turn on Joseph. He was the first man in the Church to put his money and property into the custody of the first Bishop, thus becoming the first to live the law of consecration. He helped compile our Doctrine and Covenants and choose the first Council of the Twelve Apostles.
At one point during the years in Kirtland there were was an apostasy among some of the members over money. It’s another long story but Martin seems to have stayed on the outside. He was not apart of the squabble but he was influenced by some of the rumors and at one point he said he lost convenience in Joseph and his heart was turned dark. It’s odd because there has been a claim that he was excommunicated but it seems it was never official. He wandered for a few years and then landed in Kirtland sort of as an unofficial guide of the old temple. His family went west with the Church and he lagged behind until 1869 when at the age of 87 he road the train out to Utah where he was re-baptized.
Before he died at the age of 92 he spoke in the Tabernacle;
“It is not a mere belief, but is a matter of knowledge. I saw the plates and the inscriptions thereon. I saw the angel, and he showed them unto me”
Here’s another statement.
"In introducing us, Mr. Godfrey said, 'Brother Harris, I have brought these young men to hear your statement as to whether or not you believe the Book of Mormon to be true.' His face was turned to the wall. He turned and faced us and said, 'Now I don't believe, but I know it to be true, for with these eyes I saw the angel and with these ears (pointing to them) I heard him say it was a true and correct record of an ancient people that dwelt upon this the American continent'." ( Alma L. Jensen, attested statement, Dayton, Ohio, 1 June 1936,)
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