I don't think I quite understand religion...

ViaCrucis

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See, I'm not trying to earn my way to some place better. I'm not sure that I believe there is a "Heaven" so my good deeds are not for that purpose but for the sole purpose of making others more happy. And in my mind that is a perfectly acceptable reason for doing good.

And this is what I dislike most about religions, that for some reason that's not good enough? I try to do good as much as possible (of course there's always more that could be done) and I'm not doing it as a reason to be "saved", just to create happiness. But also I'm not willing to lie to myself and pretend to believe in something that I'm not sure exists just to be "saved" either. Does this make any sense? I can't just make myself believe something I don't actually believe. Saying I believed it would just be a lie. I believe it could be possible but not for certain.

So I guess in the eyes of a Christian I am damned....but to be honest I feel like if the way I'm living my life isn't good enough for "God" then I don't really want him to save me...(if there even is saving to be needed)

I find it problematic to speak in certain absolutes where I don't think we can do so sufficiently, that is, as far as revelation is concerned.

That was really abstract, but let me put it into a more specific case relevant to what you just said:

Salvation, that is our reconciliation to God, one another, and the rest of creation, is a matter of Divine Grace; it's not something we can accomplish under our own power. By nature, due to the fact that we are fallen and broken creatures, we are sinful. That is we are bound to self-ward inclination to satisfy ourselves for our own purposes. That doesn't mean that every thing we do is intentionally malicious (evil), but it does mean that our modus operandi is to serve ourselves. That's sin. It also means that we our inclination is also to be hostile toward God, when He reaches to us our inclination is to lash out, like a wounded animal. Because of this, Christianity speaks of sin as bondage, which is intricately linked to death. God is Life, death is life's absence, and sin the chains that bound us to death and lifelessness.

As such what is needed isn't personal effort to be better, but external Grace to liberate us and give us new life. That, we say, happens in, by, and through Christ; God's Son and Word made flesh, a real human being. The Incarnation therefore becomes God's profound invasion not only into His creation, His cosmos, but into our humanity. God therefore assumes and takes upon and into Himself the full measure of what it means to be human, that means the full gamut of human existence and the human condition: conception, birth, life, suffering, and likewise death.

Divinity has been assumed into humanity, and that humanity has been assumed into death. Now comes the good part: Jesus Christ rising from the dead. The resurrection is not some sort of whimsical act of divine power, it is the obliteration of death itself. God entered into our humanity, swallowed up by death and Hell, and then ripping these apart at the seams, rendering inert their power and hold over humanity and the world. Christ has risen, and because He has risen, He has overcome death. Humanity itself, in Him, is raised up and freed from death, and death's slavery: Sin.

Now, in Him, that is by our being joined to Him we become intimates, fellow participants and partakers, in what He has accomplished. Such that St. Paul the Apostle can write in his letter to the Christians in Rome:

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His. We know that our old humanity was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death He died He died to sin, once for all, but the life He lives He lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus." - Romans 6:3-11

Thus we say that in Christ alone is salvation, for by Him alone has come resurrection from the dead and the obliteration of sin's power. Therefore in Him and by Him and through Him we are brought into communion with God, joined to God's Life, and look forward to that everlasting life that comes in the Age to Come, when our bodies are raised from the dead and justice and peace reigns over the whole of creation.

Where do the absolutes come in that I mentioned in the beginning? I don't believe we can say, "you will be damned" to anyone. I can say that in Christ alone is salvation, that no salvation can be found anywhere outside of Christ. That beside Christ there is no salvation for anyone. That said, I can't say "You, over there, you are damned." I am not the Eternal Judge who presides over the lives and hearts of men.

That's where absolutes can't be spoken. I can speak truthfully on the one hand that Christ alone is salvation, coming to us by God's Word and Sacraments. I can't speak concerning what isn't revealed.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Okay, so basically if I understand correctly the first thing I need to do is believe that God/Jesus existed and that He/They are perfect and I am not, right? Or something close to that?

But I don't know why I should believe these things...I guess I'm just needing to be convinced. Does the Bible say anything that would kind of give me some sort of evidence that it all really happened? Or like why do you guys all believe so strongly that everything in that book is true and that God is real? I don't believe things without some sort of proof most of the time...
 
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oi_antz

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Okay, so basically if I understand correctly the first thing I need to do is believe that God/Jesus existed and that He/They are perfect and I am not, right? Or something close to that?

But I don't know why I should believe these things...I guess I'm just needing to be convinced. Does the Bible say anything that would kind of give me some sort of evidence that it all really happened? Or like why do you guys all believe so strongly that everything in that book is true and that God is real? I don't believe things without some sort of proof most of the time...
God is real to me because He made Himself known to me when I once read the bible. Ever since that time, of recognizing the way He speaks to us, I can hear what He is saying to me when I read the bible. There is always some of that doubt which is the opposing energy, sin if you like, trying to get me not to heed what God is telling me. I believe that if you prepared your heart to hear God's voice and utterly surrendered yourself to His will, then He will speak to you. But He has already made the first move, and the ball is now in your court. I'll explain why I believe this, it is due to the words of Jesus in scripture. Read this section of the bible:
John 14 said:
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” 22 Judas (not Judas Iscariot, but the other disciple with that name) said to him, “Lord, why are you going to reveal yourself only to us and not to the world at large?”
23 Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. 24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.
Doesn't this passage make it clear that the ball is in your court? Jesus has already done everything necessary to offer salvation to you, now all you need to do is make that decision: will you obey Him? From what you have described in this thread so far, I don't see that there would be much standing in the way except that energy of hate which desires to make us stumble in sin. We all fall in sin from time to time. It is up to the individual what to do about it when it happens. You are being called to God CC, but you are also being attacked by the opposing force which would rather for you that instead of obeying Jesus and walking in the light, you would reject Him and walk in the darkness. Light and darkness in these terms do not mean "good" and "bad", but rather "enlightened" (aware) or "blinded" (unaware). To know God is to be fully aware of the nature of life such that you can make the decision whether to obey Him or not. I'm not about to say to you "these are the rules for being a Christian", that is not my role. Your life ought to belong to Jesus, who, when you establish that relationship with Him, He will be your shepherd to train you what is right and wrong. I hope you can read what I've said here and understand the full impact of what I mean. Please don't get all knee-jerk with me because that isn't fair. I haven't prepped you to spit at me, if that is how you feel toward me it is because of your enemy. I'm not your enemy, I am your neighbor who loves you. I'll leave you with a verse that should answer your question:
John 3 said:
18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”

Nice to meet you, just relax and think carefully about the nature of your thoughts and where they originate. I hope you are stimulated in a positive way by what I have said :wave:
 
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joey_downunder

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aiki

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I feel like I have a bit of a grasp on what Christianity is about as well as some other religions. As far as I can tell all that religion really is, is a way to "remind" people to be nice as much as possible and maybe some kind of explanation/hope to give people for what may happen after they die.
Perhaps for some this is true, but certainly not for all. My religion is the means by which I fellowship with my Creator and discover his will for my life.

Like I said, I'm not very religious and have basically lived my whole life just being nice because it feels good.
Doing something only because it feels good is a very poor motive for doing anything. What if it felt good to do people harm? What if what felt good slowly destroyed you? Do you see the problem?

I love helping people, being funny, being kind and seeing people smile or laugh and feeling like I was part of why they were happy (or less sad) for that moment. (I realize this is prideful and also maybe selfish, but why should that matter? I made people other than me happy, and that made me happy...)
Because selfishness is a low motive for doing good things. Why not do these things simply because they are right and good things to do? What if making others happy required that you be unhappy? Would you still work to make others happy? How much of your own happiness would you sacrifice for the sake of others?

I don't do this because I feel like I owe it to Jesus for doing nice things and giving his life for us, I do it because I like to see people happy.
As far as the Christian faith is concerned, there is no greater or higher motive for doing anything than love for Christ. He is the one who made all things and is therefore the one for whom all things exist.

I'm nice because I like to be, not because I feel like I need to be to get into Heaven (If there is a Heaven, and my kindness gets me in, then good lol, but if not I'd still act the same way).
And some people are evil because they like to be. You have a motive in common with serial killers and psychopaths. Doesn't this disturb you? Doing what is good merely because you like to is not a very solid or particularly noble motive.

Heaven isn't a reward for doing good. It is the gift of God to undeserving sinners who place their faith in Christ as their Saviour and Lord. Heaven is a reward because God is there.

Also I feel like some parts of religions are kind of to specific and just unbelievable. For instance, isn't there some kind of thing within Christianity where masturbation is looked down upon?
No. Impure sexual thoughts are condemned in Scripture but not masturbation. Some Christians get a little bent about anything sexual as though it's all dirty somehow, but God made sex and the sexual urge and it is nothing to get all neurotic over. The problems come in when the intended design and boundaries for sex that God has are thrown over for uncontrolled indulgence.

Same thing with the "sin" of pride (I think I've heard its a sin at least). I don't understand at all why it's bad to feel proud of yourself for your accomplishments.
I don't think it is wrong to feel pride in one's accomplishments - to a point. It is, ultimately, God who has enabled a person's intellect, strength and creativity. Were it not for what He has endowed, they would have nothing about which to boast.

Let's say a guy creates a cure for cancer and saves millions of lives, should he not be allowed to be proud and happy and think "Ahhh, I did a good thing! I feel really good right now!"? Why not? If he can't feel good about doing good things what would his reason for doing those things be?? Fear of Hell? I feel like that would be a more selfish reason.
I think pleasure in accomplishment is a good thing. But when one ignores God who has made one's accomplishments possible, then pride in what one has done grows corrupt.

Another thing I don't really like about religion (or at least Christianity, since so many of my friends follow it) is that none of them seem to really follow it correctly, or at least they don't seem to be as "Christian" as me (a not-so-Christian guy).
Apparently, your friends have much maturing to do as followers of Christ. They sound pretty juvenile in their faith. In light of this, is it fair to judge all of Christianity by them? Would you assess Mozart's ability based upon a sixth-grade school band's attempt at playing his music? Or would you get a better idea of Mozart's tremendous musical genius by listening to a professional orchestra play his stuff? Obviously, the orchestra would offer a better basis upon which to judge Mozart's musical ability. In the same way, judging Christianity by immature adherents to it does not really do justice to the faith. Find the really great followers of Christ and make your assessment by them. Or, better yet, look at Christ himself.

BUT, then I come to this website and I see a bunch of forum sections with titles like "something something (CHRISTIANS ONLY). What is this?? Does Christianity teach that we are to not accept or allow other non-Christians to comment or join in with our conversations about beliefs, feelings, afterlife, etc.? I don't think so!
Too often those outside the faith try to sabotage conversations on sites such as this with posts designed to disrupt and demean. I was on a site for a few years where the moderator disappeared and the atheists and wiccans and such overran it. The posts that were being made were so offensive and vicious and utterly uninterested in genuine discussion that all the Christians simply abandoned the site. I much prefer the restrictions this site imposes that enable fruitful discussions than the chaos and vitriol that erupts when all restrictions are removed.

Selah.
 
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bling

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Okay so obviously I have sinned in my life. This includes both sins laid out by Christianity like breaking the 10 commandments as well as sins of my own morality aka the sins that I actually care about. I have done some things that were not nice and made other people unhappy or upset. I have lied to people (some that I believe should not be sins, but also some actual bad lies as well) and I have definitely done things that I wish I wouldn't have done. But every time I do something that I believe to be very bad or that I consider truly sinful I always feel very bad about it (which I feel is equivalent to praying for forgiveness for it) and I try to gain forgiveness from whomever I've wronged as well.

For instance, about 2 and a half year ago I was walking to one of my classes on a sunny day and a girl was standing on the sidewalk asking for someone to help her find "Starin". Nobody was stopping to help so I pulled out my headphones and asked her what she was looking for. I then pointed her in the direction of the Starin dining hall on campus, but what I didn't realize (because I have very impaired vision) is that she was holding a cane and was actually completely blind. So she told me that she couldn't see where I was pointing and then I noticed the cane. So I then took her hand and pointed it in the direction she needed to go to get to "Starin" (I may have walked her over there if I hadn't been on my way to class, but I can't know for sure that I would've). So she went on her way off in the direction I had told her to go. About 3 hours after talking with this girl I thought to myself "hmmmm she said 'Starin' not 'Starin Hall', maybe she was only trying to get to Starin Road!" So I basically thought about that every night for a long time until I finally got over it by convincing myself that she probably made it eventually or that it was a less big deal than I made it out to be. I guess I'm just saying that I felt bad about possibly causing a blind person to have an even harder time finding what they were looking for even though I was trying to help. This is how I feel anytime I do something that I think negatively impacts someone else's life. And I think that sincerely feeling bad and wishing things had gone differently is similar to praying for forgiveness. And God should count that. I would like to be forgiven for those things that I think about all the time and feel badly about (the things I consider sins). I don't know however if I believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins...

LilLamb219 said:

Repent: to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (from dictionary.com)

I definitely need to repent for my wrongdoings. I do it a lot!


thesunisout said:

I think that repenting for the sins should make up for committing those sins, otherwise what is the point of repenting? If I lie to someone and feel bad about it for days after (aka admit to sinning and repent for it), is that not good enough for God? I have to believe that Jesus died to absolve me of my sins instead of believing that repenting should absolve me?

Also if I make that prayer you suggest I will be committing a sin by doing so, since it will be a lie to say I believe Jesus paid for my sins by dying on the cross and that he was raised from the dead by God.

(Thank you guys all for your comments this far!)
I really like your stories and you are doing everything right, especially about feeling bad about the even possible transgressions (the hurting of others) you have done in the past.

God is the one that has given you a conscience that will burden you about these transgressions. There are lots of ways people deal with these transgression and you mention one: “repenting” trying to do better next time and felling sorry about what you have done wrong in the past.

The problem is your actions or non-actions that have hurt others in the past will grow, you cannot feel your “making up” for them with good deeds because they get bigger, you can’t drown them away with alcohol, you can’t forget them with drugs/sex/work/family/even religion. If this is not you now, there are people around you that feel this way that need your help.

God is not looking to you to do something; God does not want something from you, but is trying to give something to you if you will just accept it (a part of it being a relief from this burden).

God is not looking for you to come to him, just because you obtain knowledge to the point of “knowing” He is real, that has no value for you and can actually keep you from fulfilling your earthly objective.

You go to God because you have given up on self (you just cannot handle it yourself) and out of need are willing to trust in a benevolent creator enough to even humbly accept God’s charity (“Charity” is what God is offering and it can only be accepted as charity). Another word for “Charity” is Godly type Love which is found in acceptance of God’s forgiveness. By accepting God’s forgiveness you automatically obtain the greatest gift God could give you “Godly type Love”, because what Jesus taught (you can realize this from your own experience) “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”

Now this does not mean you “forget” all your past transgressions, but what does happen are those transgressions become part of your story (witness to others of the way you were before).
 
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ViaCrucis

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Okay, so basically if I understand correctly the first thing I need to do is believe that God/Jesus existed and that He/They are perfect and I am not, right? Or something close to that?

But I don't know why I should believe these things...I guess I'm just needing to be convinced. Does the Bible say anything that would kind of give me some sort of evidence that it all really happened? Or like why do you guys all believe so strongly that everything in that book is true and that God is real? I don't believe things without some sort of proof most of the time...

I don't think "proof" has a lot to do with it. My faith ultimately hinges on the Jesus I encounter in the Gospels. I want to believe Him and what He says. The rest more-or-less flows from that.

I don't believe anyone has become a Christian "because they lost the argument" so to speak.

I don't know if, at this juncture, I'd worry you with "the Bible" or "Christianity", that is "believe all this stuff now now now!"; much more than that perhaps go into the Gospels (I'd recommend the Gospel of St. Luke most highly, personally speaking) and without worrying too much about this or that and whether you believe it or not, keep your skeptic glasses firmly on face. See if perhaps the word there penetrates you.

That isn't some highly formulaic recommendation, more like, come and see.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Radagast

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food4thought

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Okay, so basically if I understand correctly the first thing I need to do is believe that God/Jesus existed and that He/They are perfect and I am not, right? Or something close to that?

Believing in God's existence is necessary, or at the very least a willingness to seek Him in the hope that He is there.

Heb 11:6 NKJV But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

But I don't know why I should believe these things...I guess I'm just needing to be convinced. Does the Bible say anything that would kind of give me some sort of evidence that it all really happened? Or like why do you guys all believe so strongly that everything in that book is true and that God is real? I don't believe things without some sort of proof most of the time...

The empirical PROOF you are seeking will not be forthcoming. Empirical EVIDENCE, on the other hand, is abundant. The historical evidences for the resurrection of Jesus Christ are quite interesting... my favorite is the willingness of all the Apostles to suffer intense persecution and martyrdom (with the exception of John the Beloved) for believing, and refusing to recant the belief, in Jesus Christ's resurrection (a thing they would KNOW FOR CERTAIN whether it was true or false). The fact that all those who faced martyrdom accepted it without recanting is significant. All kinds of religions have people willing to die for their faith, BUT NONE OF THESE PEOPLE are dying for what they KNOW to be FALSE, they are willing to die because they BELIEVE it to be true. How do we explain the Apostle's unanimous willingness to die for their proclaimation of the resurrection of Jesus except to say that they must have believed it to be true? And they were in a position to KNOW FOR CERTAIN whether the resurrected Jesus had spoken to them, eaten with them, and ascended to heaven as they proclaimed.
 
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If you think I'm trying to be a troll you are mistaken. I'm sorry if I'm being to stupid or ignorant to seem legitimate. And I'm sure I've said some things that seemed pretty anti-Christian/anti-religion but that has only come from the fact that I've lived most of my life without ever thinking too much into religion or christianity and some of what people say seems kind of unbelievable. But I'll leave it up to you to decide if you believe I'm a troll or not.

To everyone else: Thank you all for your comments!!! I've read all of your posts and have taken time to think about them too. I think I have gotten what I was looking for from posting here and I think I have a better idea on what Christianity is all about. Now I just need to do a little more research (possibly reading parts of the bible) and some self-searching to determine if I really think Christianity is right for me.

Thanks again to everyone who offered comments and advice!! :)
 
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joey_downunder

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Hi there again - one thing I ask you to do:

When you open the bible or look at the Christian websites please say to God with a sincere heart: ''if you're really there God, please open my eyes and help me to understand what these all means..." and leave it at that, trust that God will answer that prayer one way or the other. Not everyone gets a sign from above or a mystical experience.
 
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thesunisout

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If you think I'm trying to be a troll you are mistaken. I'm sorry if I'm being to stupid or ignorant to seem legitimate. And I'm sure I've said some things that seemed pretty anti-Christian/anti-religion but that has only come from the fact that I've lived most of my life without ever thinking too much into religion or christianity and some of what people say seems kind of unbelievable. But I'll leave it up to you to decide if you believe I'm a troll or not.

To everyone else: Thank you all for your comments!!! I've read all of your posts and have taken time to think about them too. I think I have gotten what I was looking for from posting here and I think I have a better idea on what Christianity is all about. Now I just need to do a little more research (possibly reading parts of the bible) and some self-searching to determine if I really think Christianity is right for me.

Thanks again to everyone who offered comments and advice!! :)

It was nice talking with you, CuriousChristian. I would just reiterate what joey_downunder said which is to pray to God that He would open your eyes and reveal the truth to you as you are reading. I would recommend that you read the Book of John for starters, and then check out the other gospels. It's good that you're approaching this with an openness in your heart. If you are seeking to know the real truth, even above your personal preference, you will come to know Jesus Christ. He will give you revelation and you will know He is who the bible says He is. God bless you.
 
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oi_antz

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If you think I'm trying to be a troll you are mistaken. I'm sorry if I'm being to stupid or ignorant to seem legitimate. And I'm sure I've said some things that seemed pretty anti-Christian/anti-religion but that has only come from the fact that I've lived most of my life without ever thinking too much into religion or christianity and some of what people say seems kind of unbelievable. But I'll leave it up to you to decide if you believe I'm a troll or not.

To everyone else: Thank you all for your comments!!! I've read all of your posts and have taken time to think about them too. I think I have gotten what I was looking for from posting here and I think I have a better idea on what Christianity is all about. Now I just need to do a little more research (possibly reading parts of the bible) and some self-searching to determine if I really think Christianity is right for me.

Thanks again to everyone who offered comments and advice!! :)
There was a post by a Satanist that got removed from this thread, I think that is what the sign referred to. Great to hear you are going to investigate it properly. I feel to tell you to keep this verse close to heart:

John 15:1 “I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.

As you venture into the world of Christian theology, you will recognize many who claim to belong to the vine of Christ, but who seem to contradict what Christ stood for. Be sure to seek out the true vine, even if that means praying to God for understanding. That is what Jesus means when He says "whoever drinks of the water I give him will never thirst again". Go straight to the source, plead for Jesus to take you into His family and believe only what He teaches you.

Matthew 7:
24 “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25 Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. 26 But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27 When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.”


Be that wise man, build your house on the rock :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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TheyCallMeDave

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Hi, I'm new here and am certainly not trying to start any big arguments nor am I attempting to spam these forums with some kind of anti-Christian sentiment.

I'm not a very religious guy. I'm 21 years old and have only been to a church a few times (like one or two Easters when I was a child). I grew up with my parents who were both raised as Christians, but never really pushed me or my siblings into it. I feel like I have a bit of a grasp on what Christianity is about as well as some other religions. As far as I can tell all that religion really is, is a way to "remind" people to be nice as much as possible and maybe some kind of explanation/hope to give people for what may happen after they die.

Like I said, I'm not very religious and have basically lived my whole life just being nice because it feels good. I love helping people, being funny, being kind and seeing people smile or laugh and feeling like I was part of why they were happy (or less sad) for that moment. (I realize this is prideful and also maybe selfish, but why should that matter? I made people other than me happy, and that made me happy...) I don't do this because I feel like I owe it to Jesus for doing nice things and giving his life for us, I do it because I like to see people happy. I'm nice because I like to be, not because I feel like I need to be to get into Heaven (If there is a Heaven, and my kindness gets me in, then good lol, but if not I'd still act the same way).

Also I feel like some parts of religions are kind of to specific and just unbelievable. For instance, isn't there some kind of thing within Christianity where masturbation is looked down upon? I really don't understand that. Who does it hurt? Why is it so bad? Should I have to apologize for doing it? I don't think so. I'm not actually killing babies. Now that is something that I could see being a "sin". Same thing with the "sin" of pride (I think I've heard its a sin at least). I don't understand at all why it's bad to feel proud of yourself for your accomplishments. Let's say a guy creates a cure for cancer and saves millions of lives, should he not be allowed to be proud and happy and think "Ahhh, I did a good thing! I feel really good right now!"? Why not? If he can't feel good about doing good things what would his reason for doing those things be?? Fear of Hell? I feel like that would be a more selfish reason.

Another thing I don't really like about religion (or at least Christianity, since so many of my friends follow it) is that none of them seem to really follow it correctly, or at least they don't seem to be as "Christian" as me (a not-so-Christian guy). For instance, some of my friends are terrible with holding grudges when people they know do something wrong or upset them in some way. These people can be their good life-long friends and they might mess up, maybe indulge a little to much with alcohol and do something stupid. Then this person apologizes very sincerely and tries very hard to make it up to the person but they just won't forgive them! Like I keep saying I don't claim to know much about any religion, but I'm pretty sure forgiveness is one of the main aspects of Christianity and I find it uhm funny I guess that my "Christian" friends are some of my friends who have the hardest time with forgiving people.

And actually those same friends happen to be some of my least accepting friends. They seem to be more likely to exclude people who they deem weird, or even in some cases include those people, but only for a source of humor behind their backs :( I know this may just be a case of me only having met a few "bad" Christians while there are way more "good" Christians out there.

BUT, then I come to this website and I see a bunch of forum sections with titles like "something something (CHRISTIANS ONLY). What is this?? Does Christianity teach that we are to not accept or allow other non-Christians to comment or join in with our conversations about beliefs, feelings, afterlife, etc.? I don't think so!

I guess I'm just posting this because I think a lot (probably too much lol) and I've always kind of wondered what the point of religions was. So any kind of answers you guys have for me or comments about anything I've said would be much appreciated.

(Also please remember I'm not trying to make anybody angry or anything like that. I DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT THIS STUFF lol and I'm just saying what I have heard/believe is correct/have experienced through people I know. Please be kind in your responses but feel free to correct anything I'm misinformed on and I'm willing to take part in open debate about the topics as well, so feel free to speak your mind and I'll try to respond in as educated a way as I can)

Hi. Its ok that youre not a very religious guy ; did you know that Jesus put down religion in the Bible ??? He did. Its because its not 'religion' that gets a person reconciled to God so you can get to heaven...but rather a dynamic personal relationship with CHrist who died for you on the cross and made the way possible for you to be forgiven of your many accumulated sins. Its not what YOU can do thru religious means, but what CHRIST has done on your behaLf and simply accepting that unto your life. The Christian Faith differs from the rest of the world religions because its GOD reaching down to us instead of MAN trying to work his way up to God . If you want to get started in a real personal relationship with God, its done by his plan of CHrist dying for you personally. Recieve THAT and youll get God residing in you to guide you thru life and to be assured youll make it to heaven when you die. Its just that simple and its a totally free undeserved gift from God to you...no religion involved. Ill be looking for you in heaven.
 
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TheyCallMeDave

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Jesus put down man's false religion...not the one that the one true God created for us so we may have eternal life.

Actually, 'religion' as seen thru Gods eyes we are told is : Looking after widows and orphans and keeping oneself pure from the influences of the world (the culture) . The Gospel which is Gods global plan for manking to be saved from their sins, is a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP attempt that God wants to have with us IF we are willing to accept the free gift.
 
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LilLamb219

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Actually, 'religion' as seen thru Gods eyes we are told is : Looking after widows and orphans and keeping oneself pure from the influences of the world (the culture) . The Gospel which is Gods global plan for manking to be saved from their sins, is a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP attempt that God wants to have with us IF we are willing to accept the free gift.

Our sins were already forgiven on the cross over two thousand years ago...God is the one who gives me faith in order to believe. That relationship is important...what GOD has done first...HIS relationship to me. I do have a relationship with Him, but His relationship to me is crucial.
 
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Hi CuriousChristian,

There was a short comment I wanted to make about your original post. You say you enjoy helping others because it makes you feel, its the moral thing to do. That's great.

But you see, in the Christian view, morality goes must deeper than that. Everyone, Christians and non-religious alike can agree that we must treat each other with kindness and respect - this comes from natural law.

However, being a Christian demands that we improve ourselves for God. We recognize, to borrow an analogy from CS Lewis, that although we may intend to all sail in the same direction in harmony (treating each other with respect, love, compassion, etc.), it will not work if we do not tend to the well-being of our ships, the morality of our self.

Despite all of our best efforts, if a ship has something wrong or rotten on the inside, it will veer off course and cause all sorts of ruckus and discord for the rest of the ships. This is why despite our best intentions, humanity's attempts to build the very best on earth have so many times failed and ended in misery, destruction, and horror. We let our pride, lust, conceit, selfishness take a hold of our actions. We all know intrinsically what is the right thing to do. But, we have free will to choose our own actions. Its when the self comes in that we begin to make error. We are quick to perceive wrongs committed against us, but are just as easily convinced that we are justified in that we deserved whatever we did to wrong someone else. The most deluded can't even see or recognize when they do something wrong.

This is what many people can't accept, and why so many people today reject Christianity but believe that they can still be a "good person." They want to hang on to the egoism, pride, and conceit that is so ingrained in every human.

But they're not, we're not. We're fallen, flawed creatures. But, we have a chance to perfect ourselves. To do that, we must completely surrender ourselves to God, we must destroy the self and allow the Lord to rebuild us piece by piece inside. Only by absolutely submitting to God, who is pure goodness, can ever hope to aspire to goodness. When we do, we aim to emulate Christ, and in essence, act like "little-Christs."

You have a choice, you can submit to God's will and let him build you into an ever greater person (its not an easy path), or have it your way. There's no middle path.

Now of course, we're not perfect, no human being is. We stumble, we sin, actually we fail to keep to our devotion to Christ probably almost every day. It's HARD, but every time that we get up, we try harder, we ask God for forgiveness, who loves us so much, that despite our trespasses, has given us another chance.

This is the perhaps one of the greatest lesson of all, when we find it hard forgive someone else, we must remember that God has already forgiven us many times over. Christians are no different than other human beings, we are just as flawed. Sometimes we need reminding too.

I'm probably terrible at explaining this idea, so I recommend reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. Its distills many centuries of Christian philosopy and theology into an easy to read, personable book. It was intended for those who had doubts or did not believe.

Here's a few quotes:

" “Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

“Give me all of you!!! I don’t want so much of your time, so much of your talents and money, and so much of your work. I want YOU!!! ALL OF YOU!! I have not come to torment or frustrate the natural man or woman, but to KILL IT! No half measures will do. I don’t want to only prune a branch here and a branch there; rather I want the whole tree out! Hand it over to me, the whole outfit, all of your desires, all of your wants and wishes and dreams. Turn them ALL over to me, give yourself to me and I will make of you a new self---in my image. Give me yourself and in exchange I will give you Myself. My will, shall become your will. My heart, shall become your heart.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity


I hope you find what you're looking for! :)
 
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