I can't repent

MWood

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I don't believe myself to be saved, due to me not letting go of a sin in my life (inappropriate contentography) I've set up an accountability program with my pastor. I haven't viewed it since but I'm constantly on the verge of "giving in". I think I'm lost and this leads me to believe that I'm still under the dominion of sin. Am I repentant? Someone told me repentance is willingly turning from sin and turning towards Christ "I don't want to view it anymore" so am I repentant? When I tell the Lord I don't want to do whatever sin it may be am I repenting when I do/say this? I just feel as sin is overpowering and it leads me to believe that I can't repent Please Help!

Man up!
Put on your big boy britches.
Quit whining.
Just do it.
You got yourself in that mess, now get yourself out like a man would.
Man up!
 
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jbearnolimits

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I don't believe myself to be saved, due to me not letting go of a sin in my life (inappropriate contentography) I've set up an accountability program with my pastor. I haven't viewed it since but I'm constantly on the verge of "giving in". I think I'm lost and this leads me to believe that I'm still under the dominion of sin. Am I repentant? Someone told me repentance is willingly turning from sin and turning towards Christ "I don't want to view it anymore" so am I repentant? When I tell the Lord I don't want to do whatever sin it may be am I repenting when I do/say this? I just feel as sin is overpowering and it leads me to believe that I can't repent Please Help!

The dog returns to his own vomit. Yeah, that is in scripture. I actually wrote a chapter devoted to it in my e-book which I give away for free on my site.

What you are dealing with is a thorn in the flesh. You may have read about how Paul prayed three times for it to be removed and yet God said His grace was enough? The sad truth is that until our mortal bodies are turned to dust we are going to have desires of the flesh. That doesn't mean we have not repented though.

Paul talks about a war in his members fighting against his spirit. He says that he finds himself unable to do what he wants to do and yet he does things he doesn't want to do. From reading what you said I see that you do not want to sin. This shows you have a heart for God and not for the sin.

I know that some people say you would not do something unless you wanted to. They are right in some ways. But you have to understand that you are a new creation in Christ. You are born again. Yet the body you live in which includes the brain and all of it's enjoyment in sin still remains.

Until that body dies you will have a fight between the born again spirit and the old flesh. Paul speaks of this in Romans. There is nothing wrong with you for this!

Now when the Bible says you should live in the spirit and mortify the deeds of the flesh it is saying that you should continue to fight against that flesh. But remember that you are no longer the old flesh...it is just a shell of what once was.

So whether your flesh falls to sin or not YOU (speaking of the born again spirit inside) have not sinned. So I encourage you to continue to fight the flesh, but understand when you deal with that thorn in your flesh that God has given His grace to you.
 
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Alithis

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Oh wow.. Paul's thorn in the flesh was NOT A sin he could not stop .it was a demonic annoyance and possibly(who knows for sure)a physical ailment God would not heal.Jacob limped with a bung hip for the rest of his life..kept him humble also ,I'm sure.
But whatever his thorn in the flesh was.it was not a sin and no where does the bible support any such claim.
 
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Alithis

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Man up!
Put on your big boy britches.
Quit whining.
Just do it.
You got yourself in that mess, now get yourself out like a man would.
Man up!
This is a most unhelpful post.
If Any of us could "get ourselves out of our mess(sin)then the Lord Jesus died on the cross for nothing.
 
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jbearnolimits

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no where does the bible support any such claim.

Nor does the Bible refute this possibility. The point is not that the thorn was sin in Paul's flesh. The point is that Paul did have flesh that could be hindered by something that would require Gods grace and keep him from thinking he was perfect.
 
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Light hearted

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Nor does the Bible refute this possibility. The point is not that the thorn was sin in Paul's flesh. The point is that Paul did have flesh that could be hindered by something that would require Gods grace and keep him from thinking he was perfect.

I know, I know this is off the topic, but I lean towards the above interpretation.

This topic raises my eyebrow because my Bible study teacher and I are also on different understandings on this topic.

Ok, carry on.....:)
 
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Alithis

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I know, I know this is off the topic, but I lean towards the above interpretation.

This topic raises my eyebrow because my Bible study teacher and I are also on different understandings on this topic.

Ok, carry on.....:)

My resistance to the doctrine of implying it was a sin,is that first it would be a contradiction if his preaching and secondly...relevant to the topic,it is used by some to justify a certain sin by falsely classing it as a thorn in the flesh.
So I think it is important to be extremely clear on the matter.
Paul Did Not go around ministering the Gospel of the Lord Jesus ,the Christ .and at the same time repetitively commit sexual immorality.

I feel strongly that it is of the utmost importance,in light of the OP topic,to make that clear.
 
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G

godenver1

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I don't believe myself to be saved, due to me not letting go of a sin in my life (inappropriate contentography) I've set up an accountability program with my pastor. I haven't viewed it since but I'm constantly on the verge of "giving in". I think I'm lost and this leads me to believe that I'm still under the dominion of sin. Am I repentant? Someone told me repentance is willingly turning from sin and turning towards Christ "I don't want to view it anymore" so am I repentant? When I tell the Lord I don't want to do whatever sin it may be am I repenting when I do/say this? I just feel as sin is overpowering and it leads me to believe that I can't repent Please Help!

Going to your pastor was a good move. Don't think it has to be a one time thing. Keep going to him for advice and encouragement.
 
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jbearnolimits

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My resistance to the doctrine of implying it was a sin,is that first it would be a contradiction if his preaching and secondly...relevant to the topic,it is used by some to justify a certain sin by falsely classing it as a thorn in the flesh.

I agree full heartedly that this should never be used to justify sin. However it should be seen as a demonstration of the power and strength of the grace of God.

Oh...I would like to address the issue of Paul preaching not to sin and yet still sinning. I believe you may be referring to Romans 2:17-23

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

What Paul was saying is that those who teach that you should not sin actually do the same things they say not to do.

Paul Himself said he was guilty of this:

Romans 7:19-23
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

This in no way justifies sin. But it does show the grace of God.

This is why our boast should not be in the law but in grace.

I do understand your thoughts on this though but we really don't need to withhold the truth of grace just because we fear people may try to use it as an excuse for sin.
 
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tremble

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I agree full heartedly that this should never be used to justify sin. However it should be seen as a demonstration of the power and strength of the grace of God.

Oh...I would like to address the issue of Paul preaching not to sin and yet still sinning. I believe you may be referring to Romans 2:17-23

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

What Paul was saying is that those who teach that you should not sin actually do the same things they say not to do.

Paul Himself said he was guilty of this:

Romans 7:19-23
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

This in no way justifies sin. But it does show the grace of God.

This is why our boast should not be in the law but in grace.

I do understand your thoughts on this though but we really don't need to withhold the truth of grace just because we fear people may try to use it as an excuse for sin.

Nice post. In particular, sometimes the opposite of the bold part happens, where people abuse grace by saying we either should not try to, or do not need to follow the example Jesus set because trying to be good frustrates the grace of God.
 
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Light hearted

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My resistance to the doctrine of implying it was a sin,is that first it would be a contradiction if his preaching and secondly...relevant to the topic,it is used by some to justify a certain sin by falsely classing it as a thorn in the flesh.
So I think it is important to be extremely clear on the matter.
Paul Did Not go around ministering the Gospel of the Lord Jesus ,the Christ .and at the same time repetitively commit sexual immorality.

I feel strongly that it is of the utmost importance,in light of the OP topic,to make that clear.

Just to clarify and show due respect, I share and admire most all the posts that you post michaelmynameIs.

I do realize this thread is focus on sexual sin, however I didn't mean to imply that Paul, the sin he prayed for, to be a sexual sin.

Thanks, Jim
 
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Near

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I agree full heartedly that this should never be used to justify sin. However it should be seen as a demonstration of the power and strength of the grace of God.

[bless and do not curse]

Oh...I would like to address the issue of Paul preaching not to sin and yet still sinning. I believe you may be referring to Romans 2:17-23

[bless and do not curse]

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

[bless and do not curse]

What Paul was saying is that those who teach that you should not sin actually do the same things they say not to do.

[bless and do not curse]

Paul Himself said he was guilty of this:

[bless and do not curse]

Romans 7:19-23

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

[bless and do not curse]

This in no way justifies sin. But it does show the grace of God.[bless and do not curse]

[bless and do not curse]

This is why our boast should not be in the law but in grace.[bless and do not curse]

[bless and do not curse]

I do understand your thoughts on this though but we really don't need to withhold the truth of grace just because we fear people may try to use it as an excuse for sin.


Romans 2:1-11 NKJV


Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.


First off, Paul was not being a hypocrite. However, for the sake of the argument, let's say he was.

In Romans 2, he speaks of God's judgement against the ungodly, who judge men, yet do the same evil deeds. God's judgement, is wrath, aka hellfire, as he mentioned when he said that such people were condemned by their deeds. So, if that's the case, we would have to say, if Paul were judging others yet doing the same thing, he was condemning himself.


Secondly, there is something known as present historical tense, and Pual uses tt language in Romans 7. He was not in sin while writing Romans 7. The tense which I'm describing is a literary tool used to convey a first person account of events seemingly in the present. Obviously Paul could not be going through all those motions he mentions while writing.

That's comparable to a guy writing about bicycle writing in the present historical tense, " I'm riding my bike up a hill, and now I find myself gazing at the sunset" while actually doing those things.[bless and do not curse]

I say this because he described his narrative as a spiritually dead man, who then ask the question, in Romans 7:24


"O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"


However, again for the sake of the argument, let's say Paul was both sinning and authoring Romans at the same time, what else does Paul mention in Romans 7?


Romans 7:9-11 NKJV


I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.


Are we to expect that Paul physically died?

Not at all, but rather he speaks of spiritual death, a state of condemnation.


Even more convincing he says,


Romans 7:14 NKJV


For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Now, he uses the terms spiritual and carnal contrasting the two. We know that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, who walk not according to the flesh, ie sinful living, but according to the spirit, which is obedience.

Going further, in Romans 8 Paul says,
Romans 8:13 NKJV
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

He is telling Christians, they will die spiritually due to the carnal practice of sin.

Again, I don't care as much as to debate whether or not Pual actually was living a carnal life, but rather does a carnal living, put people back under the bondage of sin, and will that cause spiritual death?

The answer is clear, yes.
 
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jbearnolimits

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Romans 2:1-11 NKJV


Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.


First off, Paul was not being a hypocrite. However, for the sake of the argument, let's say he was.

In Romans 2, he speaks of God's judgement against the ungodly, who judge men, yet do the same evil deeds. God's judgement, is wrath, aka hellfire, as he mentioned when he said that such people were condemned by their deeds. So, if that's the case, we would have to say, if Paul were judging others yet doing the same thing, he was condemning himself.

I just quoted this part because it is all I have time to talk about for now and I don't know if I want to even continue with this subject any longer after this post.

You said Paul would have been condemning himself. That is the entire point in him saying "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things."

He was saying we ALL have sin. We ALL need forgiveness and grace. When you read that God will judge us according to our deeds do you really think he is saying we will be sent to hell even if we trusted in Jesus and still fell to sin at times? Or do you understand that it is trusting in Jesus that makes you righteous and that even if you do your best to not sin you are still unrighteous without Jesus?

No, he was saying that such a thought is evil.
 
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Near

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I just quoted this part because it is all I have time to talk about for now and I don't know if I want to even continue with this subject any longer after this post.

You said Paul would have been condemning himself. That is the entire point in him saying "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things."

He was saying we ALL have sin. We ALL need forgiveness and grace. When you read that God will judge us according to our deeds do you really think he is saying we will be sent to hell even if we trusted in Jesus and still fell to sin at times? Or do you understand that it is trusting in Jesus that makes you righteous and that even if you do your best to not sin you are still unrighteous without Jesus?

No, he was saying that such a thought is evil.

We all have sinned, but what about Paul's words makes you think we all have to continue in sin?
We receive God's forgiveness in our repentance, but if a man is in the very act of adultery, he is under the wrath of God, and if he dies, as ungodly as he is, he will face fiery wrath. Trusting in Jesus means we have faith in his promises, that he will guide us into eternity. However, that promise is for his sheep, and we are only sheep is we follow him. Should a man turn back, he ceases to be a sheep. It's one thing to fall, and if anyone does fall, he must repent.
I am unrighteous without Jesus, yes. If I were a muslim, and were moral in Muslim standards, I would still be unrighteous.

However, an adulterer for example, is unrighteous, even if he once had faith in Jesus. Trusting in Jesus does NOT mean we might sin a lot, but in the midst of the very acts of sin, God sees us as spotless and pure. It doesn't mean that.

Like I said, Carnal living, leads to hell. That's the meaning of "dead" and condemnation in Pual's letters. He is not saying, "im carnal and I sin and I'm still right with God and going to heaven no matter what". He explicitly mentioned condemnation and death, which means God sends the wicked backslidden person to hell. If I am not enduring in the end, I will be sent to hell. Dont tell me I can sin and not spiritually die. God is not pleased with the wicked.
 
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Alithis

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I agree full heartedly that this should never be used to justify sin. However it should be seen as a demonstration of the power and strength of the grace of God.

Oh...I would like to address the issue of Paul preaching not to sin and yet still sinning. I believe you may be referring to Romans 2:17-23

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

What Paul was saying is that those who teach that you should not sin actually do the same things they say not to do.

Paul Himself said he was guilty of this:

Romans 7:19-23
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

This in no way justifies sin. But it does show the grace of God.

This is why our boast should not be in the law but in grace.

I do understand your thoughts on this though but we really don't need to withhold the truth of grace just because we fear people may try to use it as an excuse for sin.

Except Paul did not say what you have implied here.
You have taken two excerpts, peiced them together and presented a incorrect conclusion. He simply does NOT say he is guilty of not practicing what he preached.
You are adding words that are not there.you don't get to take a paragraph from Chapter2 -merge it with chapter 12 and say therefore it means such and such .
The above assumptions are incorrect and the scriptural basis presented are out of context.
In chapter 2 he speaks of one thing.. in chapter 12 he has moved on to another topic.
To conclude he is saying he did not practice what he preached could not be more incorrect.
 
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Alithis

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We all have sinned, but what about Paul's words makes you think we all have to continue in sin?
We receive God's forgiveness in our repentance, but if a man is in the very act of adultery, he is under the wrath of God, and if he dies, as ungodly as he is, he will face fiery wrath. Trusting in Jesus means we have faith in his promises, that he will guide us into eternity. However, that promise is for his sheep, and we are only sheep is we follow him. Should a man turn back, he ceases to be a sheep. It's one thing to fall, and if anyone does fall, he must repent.
I am unrighteous without Jesus, yes. If I were a muslim, and were moral in Muslim standards, I would still be unrighteous.

However, an adulterer for example, is unrighteous, even if he once had faith in Jesus. Trusting in Jesus does NOT mean we might sin a lot, but in the midst of the very acts of sin, God sees us as spotless and pure. It doesn't mean that.

Like I said, Carnal living, leads to hell. That's the meaning of "dead" and condemnation in Pual's letters. He is not saying, "im carnal and I sin and I'm still right with God and going to heaven no matter what". He explicitly mentioned condemnation and death, which means God sends the wicked backslidden person to hell. If I am not enduring in the end, I will be sent to hell. Dont tell me I can sin and not spiritually die. God is not pleased with the wicked.
It does indeed say this.
 
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