Discussion I buy a spade to dig a hole ,a broom to sweep a floor ...

[Alithis]

I buy a spade to dig a hole ,a broom to sweep a floor .

i desire to dig a hole outside ,perhaps turn over a Garden etc ,, so i buy a spade , perhaps a shovel .the thing i buy has a purpose and i go out and i purchase it (if i can ) for that purpose that i might do with it what it is intended for ..

I buy a mop to clean my floor .. my floor is dirty and i had no mop and i desired to clean it so i purchase a mop .. i buy the mop for the task it is designed for .

i go and attend a prayer meeting that i might pray with others ..
it is the honest truth that we do what we love the most and what we desire in our hearts sooner or later manifests itself .those who desire to love the lord Jesus seek to learn more of him , they endeavor to abide in him more and more ,they build upon the foundation he has laid in us by his grace .those whose hearts are filled with a desire to walk in the Holy Spirit seek the things of the Spirit and when we love the flesh we seek the things of the flesh -we al know that is true. the lord Jesus made it very clear

in these simple things the intent of my heart is displayed .. i did not by the mop to dig a hole and if i said i did i would not be honest about it .
i did not buy the spade to clean the floor .. with each of these purchases i had a task i desired to preform ...

so why buy a hand gun ?-honestly

WSS

 

[jacks]

I'm sure you'll get a variety of answers, but for myself the answer is they're fun to shoot. I grew up shooting guns of various types and I enjoy it. Honestly I don't have a hand gun so I can kill people or kill anything for that matter. I also enjoy archery, which could also be lethal, but in over 40 years with both bow and guns I've never killed anything and don't intend to.

 

[Masihi]

There's a time for everything.

 

[Alithis]

I'm sure you'll get a variety of answers, but for myself the answer is they're fun to shoot. I grew up shooting guns of various types and I enjoy it. Honestly I don't have a hand gun so I can kill people or kill anything for that matter. I also enjoy archery, which could also be lethal, but in over 40 years with both bow and guns I've never killed anything and don't intend to.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I buy a spade to dig a hole ,a broom to sweep a floor .

i desire to dig a hole outside ,perhaps turn over a Garden etc ,, so i buy a spade , perhaps a shovel .the thing i buy has a purpose and i go out and i purchase it (if i can ) for that purpose that i might do with it what it is intended for ..

I buy a mop to clean my floor .. my floor is dirty and i had no mop and i desired to clean it so i purchase a mop .. i buy the mop for the task it is designed for .

i go and attend a prayer meeting that i might pray with others ..
it is the honest truth that we do what we love the most and what we desire in our hearts sooner or later manifests itself .those who desire to love the lord Jesus seek to learn more of him , they endeavor to abide in him more and more ,they build upon the foundation he has laid in us by his grace .those whose hearts are filled with a desire to walk in the Holy Spirit seek the things of the Spirit and when we love the flesh we seek the things of the flesh -we al know that is true. the lord Jesus made it very clear

in these simple things the intent of my heart is displayed .. i did not by the mop to dig a hole and if i said i did i would not be honest about it .
i did not buy the spade to clean the floor .. with each of these purchases i had a task i desired to preform ...

so why buy a hand gun ?-honestly

WSS

IF I bought a gun it would be for protection and because I felt God was telling me to. There is not an intent to kill just a desire to preserve innocent lives. One can point a gun and not shoot. Like I shared in another post there was a man in TX who was severely beating a woman. Nobody stopped except one man, who had a gun. He stood in the middle of the street and while calling the police yelled at the guy that he had a gun and he was pointing it at the man who was beating the woman. If he'd had a desire to kill the guy he would have just shot, but he didn't. The guy got out of the vehicle where he was beating the woman and did as the man with the gun told him....hands up. When the police arrived, they took over all ended without a killing, including the woman. She was very grateful the guy had come to her assistance.

For whatever it's worth, I know there are some who sound gleeful at the idea of killing someone but I think that when it came right down to it, while they might be able to pull the trigger and kill, I don't believe that it is something they want, or desire, or seek to do. They want to be able to protect themselves if necessary. I personally do not have a gun. I have considered it, but as of yet I don't hear God telling me to do so.

I understand many of your points and agree with a lot. But the average American who buys a gun is not blood thirsty and eager to find someone to kill with it.

 

[Alithis]

IF I bought a gun it would be for protection and because I felt God was telling me to. There is not an intent to kill just a desire to preserve innocent lives. One can point a gun and not shoot. Like I shared in another post there was a man in TX who was severely beating a woman. Nobody stopped except one man, who had a gun. He stood in the middle of the street and while calling the police yelled at the guy that he had a gun and he was pointing it at the man who was beating the woman. If he'd had a desire to kill the guy he would have just shot, but he didn't. The guy got out of the vehicle where he was beating the woman and did as the man with the gun told him....hands up. When the police arrived, they took over all ended without a killing, including the woman. She was very grateful the guy had come to her assistance.

For whatever it's worth, I know there are some who sound gleeful at the idea of killing someone but I think that when it came right down to it, while they might be able to pull the trigger and kill, I don't believe that it is something they want, or desire, or seek to do. They want to be able to protect themselves if necessary. I personally do not have a gun. I have considered it, but as of yet I don't hear God telling me to do so.

I understand many of your points and agree with a lot. But the average American who buys a gun is not blood thirsty and eager to find someone to kill with it.

well ,we buy the tool for the purpose of the tool .. usually its intended purpose . ... but as i said "-honestly- ..its all about the honest reason at a heart level ..- and i have no doubt your being honest, i have no reason to doubt it ..its why i gave the other poster the thumbs up also . but you have to admit ,..its been ingrained in the american psyche and its has not originated in the Holy Spirit .
of course i recognize a difference when one is called to be a soldier ..for a soldier ..it is the tool of trade (once a sword)

 

[Alithis]

and feel free to let the topic diversify

because at all times and all subtopics i do like to align them to life in the holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit etc . being as this is the spirit filled forum.

on the topic of soldiers and guns things are fully a different classification
and -off topic but of interest to SpiritPsalmist i think, did you happen to see this article

 

[Alithis]

this is interesting have a read HERE

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

and feel free to let the topic diversify

because at all times and all subtopics i do like to align them to life in the holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit etc . being as this is the spirit filled forum.

on the topic of soldiers and guns things are fully a different classification
and -off topic but of interest to SpiritPsalmist i think, did you happen to see this article

I had not seen that article...thanks for the link

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

this is interesting have a read HERE

I agree there are "stories" of fear taking over and a person using a gun in an irresponsible way or even an unstable person shooting up everything, but I don't believe all guns should be taken away from people. I guess it's an American thing. Really, I can see your points and agree with much of it.

Anyway, when I lived in Florida, one night there was pounding on my door (I'd only lived there a week and I live alone). Thankfully it was the door that also had a screen door and it was locked. I don't think I'd have opened my other door anyway...

So, I open the door and there is a young woman (I had seen her and the man earlier that day at the neighbors house) wanting help because her boyfriend was hurting her. I had my phone in my hand and had already dialed 911. I saw the boyfriend and he was rushing toward her and she started to scream "please let me in and she grabbed for the screen door but it was locked. I physically felt a hand touch my elbow, much in the way a person would to draw someone back (I believe it was an angel). I said, "I'm sorry, the police are on their way" and I shut the door. By the time the police got there the couple had disappeared into the neighbors house (I saw them). I told the police that and when they went to the neighbors they denied they were there. But the police told me I did the right thing. IF I'd had a gun, I might have gotten it out but I seriously doubt, unless they started breaking in (only once they were in), that I would have used it and then only after warning them that I had it.

Fortunately, I never saw them again, and I was very thankful for the Lords help that night in staying somewhat calm. I think the people who lived there even moved out soon after that. Who knows what they were thinking of doing.

 

[Alithis]

I agree there are "stories" of fear taking over and a person using a gun in an irresponsible way or even an unstable person shooting up everything, but I don't believe all guns should be taken away from people. I guess it's an American thing. Really, I can see your points and agree with much of it.

Anyway, when I lived in Florida, one night there was pounding on my door (I'd only lived there a week and I live alone). Thankfully it was the door that also had a screen door and it was locked. I don't think I'd have opened my other door anyway...

So, I open the door and there is a young woman (I had seen her and the man earlier that day at the neighbors house) wanting help because her boyfriend was hurting her. I had my phone in my hand and had already dialed 911. I saw the boyfriend and he was rushing toward her and she started to scream "please let me in and she grabbed for the screen door but it was locked. I physically felt a hand touch my elbow, much in the way a person would to draw someone back (I believe it was an angel). I said, "I'm sorry, the police are on their way" and I shut the door. By the time the police got there the couple had disappeared into the neighbors house (I saw them). I told the police that and when they went to the neighbors they denied they were there. But the police told me I did the right thing. IF I'd had a gun, I might have gotten it out but I seriously doubt, unless they started breaking in (only once they were in), that I would have used it and then only after warning them that I had it.

Fortunately, I never saw them again, and I was very thankful for the Lords help that night in staying somewhat calm. I think the people who lived there even moved out soon after that. Who knows what they were thinking of doing.

that is amazing ..I REJOICE IN THE LORD for you .He is with us and he IS able -amen

this verse from my sig' probably holds far more weight if it were you sharing it -
Though I walk in the midst of trouble, you preserve my life; you stretch out your hand against the wrath of my enemies, and your right hand delivers me.-Psalm 138:7

 

[Strong in Him]

I hate the idea of having a gun; thankfully I doubt I ever will. To me, a gun has only one purpose - and it's not to make a cup of tea.

 

[hislegacy]

Here is 100% honesty.

I purchased my first weapon at 19. It was a .22 long rifle. My hearts desire was to join a team of shooters in target shooting. I had just learned to walk again after a bad vehicle accident and shooting the long gun actually was therapeutic in nature. Helped with hand eye coordination and muscle strength.

The second gun I purchased was 1911 .45acp. The plan and hearts motivation for the purchase was to participate in competitive shooting.

At 21 I was a field commander for DOD and was assigned to the Navy Dept on a project called Run Silent, Run Deep. (A GS12 if you are curious). I was required to carry 24/7. My hearts motivation was completing the duty I was required to in defense of this nation and the safety of my men.

In three years, 10 months I pulled my weapon twice, never having to fire.

I served with more than 50 men, not one ever thought it was a good thing to fire the weapon and wound or take a life. Let alone do what is suggested some do.

At 25 I accepted my first ministry position and have kept two weapons. I can still hit a moving target at 200 yards.

Our church has a little over 3,000 people. I'm not part of the formal staff, but I know each pastor has a concealed carry and advanced Life Support Training. In addition we have a security staff on campus that is also armed.

The heart motive is that the gun is a tool that is a definite deterrent to people who want to harm others.

And that is what is being ignored.

A guy in Tulsa went and bought a shovel, used I to kill his girlfriend. Then used it again to bury her. Shall we outlaw shovels?

 

[Alithis]

I hate the idea of having a gun; thankfully I doubt I ever will. To me, a gun has only one purpose - and it's not to make a cup of tea.

A

Here is 100% honesty.

I purchased my first weapon at 19. It was a .22 long rifle. My hearts desire was to join a team of shooters in target shooting. I had just learned to walk again after a bad vehicle accident and shooting the long gun actually was therapeutic in nature. Helped with hand eye coordination and muscle strength.

The second gun I purchased was 1911 .45acp. The plan and hearts motivation for the purchase was to participate in competitive shooting.

At 21 I was a field commander for DOD and was assigned to the Navy Dept on a project called Run Silent, Run Deep. (A GS12 if you are curious). I was required to carry 24/7. My hearts motivation was completing the duty I was required to in defense of this nation and the safety of my men.

In three years, 10 months I pulled my weapon twice, never having to fire.

I served with more than 50 men, not one ever thought it was a good thing to fire the weapon and wound or take a life. Let alone do what is suggested some do.

At 25 I accepted my first ministry position and have kept two weapons. I can still hit a moving target at 200 yards.

Our church has a little over 3,000 people. I'm not part of the formal staff, but I know each pastor has a concealed carry and advanced Life Support Training. In addition we have a security staff on campus that is also armed.

The heart motive is that the gun is a tool that is a definite deterrent to people who want to harm others.

And that is what is being ignored.

A guy in Tulsa went and bought a shovel, used I to kill his girlfriend. Then used it again to bury her. Shall we outlaw shovels?

haha lol no!. we should not outlaw shovels ..but we should question that man as i think his outward expressed action displayed the intent of his heart when he purchased the shovel ...

yes im taking the lighter hearted approach in this thread ..it really is not my intent to be arguing all the time .. i mean wheww its hard work .

 

[probinson]

A guy in Tulsa went and bought a shovel, used I to kill his girlfriend. Then used it again to bury her. Shall we outlaw shovels?

This argument always amuses me.

Shovels have all kinds of legitimate, intended uses. Digging holes, digging up stubborn roots in your yard, planting things, digging a foundation for a new structure... and the list goes on. It is the misuse of a shovel that can cause it to become a lethal weapon. This is true of anything. Heck, a person with the proper ninja training could kill you with a paper clip if they wanted to.

OTOH, when used properly, a gun is a lethal weapon. There is no misuse required. Just use it just as it was intended; load it, pull the trigger, bam, life ending capability just as it was intended.

Shovels are not intended to be lethal weapons. Nor are paper clips, or cars, or lawn mowers, or steak knives, or any other myriad of things that you might try to equate to guns because someone, somewhere once misused the item in question a lethal manner. "A person suffocated another person with a plastic bag! Should we outlaw all plastic bags?" These are silly arguments that fall apart with only a cursory examination.

You can attempt to pretty it up all you like by saying that the gun's purpose is to act as a deterrent, but the only reason that deterrent exists is because of a fear of the potential life ending capability of that gun. IOW, Unless you're MacGyver and using the gun as an impromptu wrench to prevent a nuclear reactor from melting down, the intended purpose of a gun is to kill.

The bottom line is, you're attempting to draw some correlation between the misuse of an everyday item and that of the intended use of a gun. But no such correlation exists.

 

[Alithis]

although maybe we should have a shovel license .. but then the governments would need a lot of licenses because they shovel a lot every day

 

[Alithis]

This argument always amuses me.

Shovels have all kinds of legitimate, intended uses. Digging holes, digging up stubborn roots in your yard, planting things, digging a foundation for a new structure... and the list goes on. It is the misuse of a shovel that can cause it to become a lethal weapon. This is true of anything. Heck, a person with the proper ninja training could kill you with a paper clip if they wanted to.

OTOH, when used properly, a gun is a lethal weapon. There is no misuse required. Just use it just as it was intended; load it, pull the trigger, bam, life ending capability just as it was intended.

Shovels are not intended to be lethal weapons. Nor are paper clips, or cars, or lawn mowers, or steak knives, or any other myriad of things that you might try to equate to guns because someone, somewhere once misused the item in question a lethal manner. "A person suffocated another person with a plastic bag! Should we outlaw all plastic bags?" These are silly arguments that fall apart with only a cursory examination.

You can attempt to pretty it up all you like by saying that the gun's purpose is to act as a deterrent, but the only reason that deterrent exists is because of a fear of the potential life ending capability of that gun. IOW, Unless you're MacGyver and using the gun as an impromptu wrench to prevent a nuclear reactor from melting down, the intended purpose of a gun is to kill.

The bottom line is, you're attempting to draw some correlation between the misuse of an everyday item and that of the intended use of a gun. But no such correlation exists.

yup. thats true enough .. the link i shred earlier was an article on what they call the "myth of self defence as a reason to own a hand gun" its based on false statistics for starters .

what i do find interesting is that more people die a years in the usa from shooting one another .criminally .purposely accidentally and tragically .. then in some middle east conflicts ... in a decade .
yet laws are changed to erode freedoms for "perceived threat and fear of terrorism, when the truth is .. statistically speaking, your more like to die of lung cancer then ever even see a terrorist act in person ,let alone get killed by one .. this is a messed up world of lies we live in ..
i mean some may cry 9/11 and 2000 people.. tragic , but now go check on how many died from gun shot this unended year alone ... or any other cause .
there's a bigger game afoot and money and power and outright evil is driving it .. -but yeah ,i know we all know that

->this post was brought to you by the topic diversification squad

 

[hislegacy]

This argument always amuses me.

Shovels have all kinds of legitimate, intended uses. Digging holes, digging up stubborn roots in your yard, planting things, digging a foundation for a new structure... and the list goes on. It is the misuse of a shovel that can cause it to become a lethal weapon. This is true of anything. Heck, a person with the proper ninja training could kill you with a paper clip if they wanted to.

OTOH, when used properly, a gun is a lethal weapon. There is no misuse required. Just use it just as it was intended; load it, pull the trigger, bam, life ending capability just as it was intended.

interesting to note that I have posted a gun for 36 years, carried it off and on for 34 of them. Every year I have used the guns 'as intended' and yet no one in 34 years has died. There are approximately five people still alive, and a whole lot of targets banged up. Why? because that was the guns intended use.

Now combine that with my staff of 20 or so carrying their guns approx 120,000 man hours not counting off time, for more than three years and only one injury and no deaths, yet numbers of potential threats ended Why? They used their guns for their intended use.

Shovels are not intended to be lethal weapons. Nor are paper clips, or cars, or lawn mowers, or steak knives, or any other myriad of things that you might try to equate to guns because someone, somewhere once misused the item in question a lethal manner. "A person suffocated another person with a plastic bag! Should we outlaw all plastic bags?" These are silly arguments that fall apart with only a cursory examination.

You can attempt to pretty it up all you like by saying that the gun's purpose is to act as a deterrent, but the only reason that deterrent exists is because of a fear of the potential life ending capability of that gun.

Yes Pete, fear of injury and potential loss of life is the only deterrent of a gun. You can try to ugly it up all you want, but causing death is not the only use of a gun.

IOW, Unless you're MacGyver and using the gun as an impromptu wrench to prevent a nuclear reactor from melting down, the intended purpose of a gun is to kill.

The bottom line is, you're attempting to draw some correlation between the misuse of an everyday item and that of the intended use of a gun. But no such correlation exists.

The issue with most of the anti gun folks is they ignore what I've posted above, the simple realities that there are thousands of people saved by having guns, or gun owners every year.


More people loose their lives to machete's than guns.
More people loose their live to knives than guns
More people loose their lives to drunk drivers than guns.

Not everyone should own a gun. But there is nothing inherently evil with gun ownership.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The issue with most of the anti gun folks is they ignore what I've posted above, the simple realities that there are thousands of people saved by having guns, or gun owners every year.


More people loose their lives to machete's than guns.
More people loose their live to knives than guns
More people loose their lives to drunk drivers than guns.

Not everyone should own a gun. But there is nothing inherently evil with gun ownership.

That reminds me of the guy who was walking to his car after leaving a class on sword fighting. In the parking lot he heard a woman screaming and looked over and saw a man attacking her. All he could think of to do was run toward them waiving his Samurai sword, the attacker looked up and took off running away. It was all over the news. I'm not sure that he planned to use it on the guy but the guy did not know that.

 

[hislegacy]

All you have to do is look at statistics. Actual murder rates per capita. Not just gun deaths, but murder in all forms.

The U.S. Had the highest gun ownership in the world. But where is America's murder rate? 4.7 per capita. There are more than 100 nations with higher murder rate than America does.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

So here in the 'wild west' where we have open carry. And in the U.S. With gun ownership higher than any other country on earth, we are not even in the top 100 nations with the highest murder rate per capita.

Exactly why is that? If what some are saying is accurate, why isn't our murder rate commensurate with gun ownership.