I am a Christian Who Has Virtually Lost All Faith (I Want to Regain it Badly)

fat wee robin

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The questions you responded to regarded my understanding that faith requires constant reminding that God exists but you basically said that we need to filter what we experience in order to keep a positive view towards Christ. I'm not trying to insult you in any way at all, but your responses here basically sum up the unfortunate conclusions I've reached...

You are essentially telling me to label anything that goes against Christianity as junk and only focus on the good stuff that supports it. I can guarantee that that mindset promotes faith-strengthening, but crushes any ability to critically think. I could use this thought process to label the Big Bang, Evolution, etc. as garbage and attempt to filter them out of my brain's exposure.

Intentionally limiting yourself from being exposed to other info is basically a summation of my concern that religion involves constant convincing of the brain that your belief exists. Re: chemical pathways
It sounds to me as if you need to take the risk of letting go of concious belief ,and it will be a risk ,as you launch into a journey of discovery .Remember the story of the 'prodigal son' who took all that he had been given and spent it all and more and for a long time did not think of His Father ,until he was so low and lost .you will never belief entirely in my opinion if you do not let go . At the bottom of this is a feeling that you have need to be really loved by 'the father 'like a child .There has ben some compromise in you fathers love for you ,as I think that very religious people impose on their young children 'rules' by which they can be loved ,and if they do not follow they are rejected .Extremely religious people are dangerous to their children because they not allow them to find their own way to God and their extremeness is a sign of doubt .Anyway which is forced always falls apart
in the end .
You said your parents "are on fire for God ,or Jesus" , but what does that mean ?
A relationship with God /Jesus is in the end a personal one and although ministers ,priests etc are fine for beginnings ,eventually we must make 'contact with God' alone without anyone else being involved .
 
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HisWay2016

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First off I realize that there is a search function on this forum and some of my questions may be answered by using it - yes, there are plenty of threads that have addressed the problems I will mention. It would mean a lot to me if I wasn't reminded of any of this. I've been an online forum user for years so I understand the etiquette expected but if I offend anyone I apologize in advance and will welcome any criticism.

I want to preface this entire thread and my responses specifically with the warning that although I am currently a Christian, I am an EXTREME skeptic and thus have found this forum. I am NOT a troll and do not intend to lead anyone into questioning their faith (though the level of intelligence I exhibit likely won't force anyone to reach this conclusion, lol) . I am here to learn and discuss, not argue / attempt to convince believers they are wrong. I would feel horrendous if this were to happen.

My first thought I would love to hear responses about:

The only believers I'm aware of were either raised in a Christian home (and thus indoctrinated into the belief system from a young age without critical thinking abilities, etc, like myself), or have experienced a traumatic event or suffered a chronic problem (alcoholism, life/death accident, etc). This creates a problem for me because I'm seeking truth.

"Truth" is another issue that can create an entire discussion in and of itself.
 
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LoveJesusAndLive

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Hi,
Okay. The timing for you to ask, was probably Always in God's Hands, so your self denigration, is maybe felt, however you really can't say it is warranted.
Please start relating, just a little please.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
oh no, truly I can be very stubborn , equate it with stupidity, really.. just on my own turf.. not meant to project that outwardly to anyone. Relate.. like more? gets scary. gets AWESOME. But, my experience.. is about me.. my sin, my repenting, my coming to faith with what I had at hand.. and I'm preeetty sure you'd think I was crazy unless you experience it yourself. He deals with each of us differently, similar but always personal.. But for the record, as I was saved, those first several months.. lets see, the event starts out in Sept. 1995, I get filled with the Holy Spirit in a Church of God in April 1996.. truly awesome, big wind Pentecost Day event.. really.. but the Lord told me so many things during that time and each and most every one, all except one I am starting to see fulfilled just now, has come to pass. Kind of why I showed up recently.. I search around looking for any one else mentioning it.. I'm a bit shy about that stuff. Lets just say it's time to get your house in order especially if you live in the USA. ;)
 
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LoveJesusAndLive

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I can tell you, katerinah.. you would have thought I was the most normal American girl on the block.. but what the Lord took out of me.. before He filled me.. you can guess the rest. I end up being utterly ostracized by my 'catholic' family.. I can add that.. felt His hands move right through me one day, he healed an old problem.. I can add that.. this one.. literally not kidding, felt a hand on my head, not a light hand, a firm hand, saw my life, my sin, I guess as He saw it, flash before my eyes.. I weep for a good few days.. oh yes I was one of those who kept saying 'but I am a good person'... I should add to that through out it all, He comforted me lovingly, made me understand..
 
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HisWay2016

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Hi,
Okay. The timing for you to ask, was probably Always in God's Hands, so your self denigration, is maybe felt, however you really can't say it is warranted.
Please start relating, just a little please.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

oh, am clutsy, how to respond on tablet?
Not raised Christian. But brainwashed into mammon...money, status.

Do you think it's up to you? Big trouble.
(I'm on tablet, sorry for...brief)
I'm small, God big...ha, joke..SO big.
So can you make simple prayer?
You're sincere. Then, leave it?
But watch a bit?

I think you're attacked & who else can the devil attack? Not his own.

That is a tough feeling.
 
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Aidan K

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Hi,

This sounds like your path to God to me. I don't think paths to and with God are the same for everyone.

Allow me please to reword this, then if you would tell me if this fits you better:

"I somethimes think that I can be guilty of thinking too much. God and religion will not stand up to scientific scrutiny, from what I know, due to the fact that faith and belief are requisites. I simply sit in silence and say something like God speak to me, and amazingly it works for me, just that way."

Did I make errors, in that rewording, with you? If I did not, then my hope is that the idea of individual relationships with God, like Abraham's and Paul's are maybe the way it is for all of us. If I did, then it is back to the drawing boards.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Perfectly true
 
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LoveJesusAndLive

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I think you're attacked & who else can the devil attack? Not his own.

I think the devil does attack his own, to keep them bound... pretty sure he thought I was his property.. Mary is probably right about His timing too.. until He really showed up in my Life.. the words didn't flow out of my mouth.. and I don't recall ever having thinking to ask that way either..

I made a really really nice painting that first month.. I do think it was Him not me.. I've never been able to do it quite like that again. I talked, He patiently listened, helped along, He's an artist!!
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Okay well you have never seen your brain...does that mean you dont have one? And if we evolved from apes, then why are there still apes? How are you a Christian if you doubt Gods word?

Oh, since dogs came from wolves and everybody knows that, the wolves have disappeared? No, the dogs only came from some of them, others of them went on being wolves.

Its the same with apes.
 
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BobRyan

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First off I realize that there is a search function on this forum and some of my questions may be answered by using it - yes, there are plenty of threads that have addressed the problems I will mention. It would mean a lot to me if I wasn't reminded of any of this. I've been an online forum user for years so I understand the etiquette expected but if I offend anyone I apologize in advance and will welcome any criticism.

I want to preface this entire thread and my responses specifically with the warning that although I am currently a Christian, I am an EXTREME skeptic and thus have found this forum. I am NOT a troll and do not intend to lead anyone into questioning their faith (though the level of intelligence I exhibit likely won't force anyone to reach this conclusion, lol) . I am here to learn and discuss, not argue / attempt to convince believers they are wrong. I would feel horrendous if this were to happen.

My first thought I would love to hear responses about:

The only believers I'm aware of were either raised in a Christian home (and thus indoctrinated into the belief system from a young age without critical thinking abilities, etc, like myself), or have experienced a traumatic event or suffered a chronic problem (alcoholism, life/death accident, etc). This creates a problem for me because I'm seeking truth.

"Truth" is another issue that can create an entire discussion in and of itself.

If God is seeking and saving the lost - why wouldn't he use crisis moments? (No atheists in foxholes as they say). How often in the OT does God use blessing to attract and hold the saints - and then use crisis to get the rebellious to turn around and repent?

How often does a parent use candy and positive incentives to mold their child into right doing,,, and yet at other times is forced to use some punishment measures to stop bad behavior?

I have known people that have "read themselves into the church" - and 'the Case of Christ" is a good example of one.

So also is "Deceived by the New Age" and "A trip into the Supernatural".
 
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fat wee robin

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Hi,

This sounds like your path to God to me. I don't think paths to and with God are the same for everyone.

Allow me please to reword this, then if you would tell me if this fits you better:

"I somethimes think that I can be guilty of thinking too much. God and religion will not stand up to scientific scrutiny, from what I know, due to the fact that faith and belief are requisites. I simply sit in silence and say something like God speak to me, and amazingly it works for me, just that way."

Did I make errors, in that rewording, with you? If I did not, then my hope is that the idea of individual relationships with God, like Abraham's and Paul's are maybe the way it is for all of us. If I did, then it is back to the drawing boards.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Hi,
Okay. The timing for you to ask, was probably Always in God's Hands, so your self denigration, is maybe felt, however you really can't say it is warranted.
Please start relating, just a little please.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
I like the post of "find Jesus and live", and found it very useeful ,even inspiring ,unlike some .
 
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BobRyan

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Oh, since dogs came from wolves and everybody knows that, the wolves have disappeared? No, the dogs only came from some of them, others of them went on being wolves.

Its the same with apes.

Except that wolves and dogs are the same species. Apes and humans are not.

A wolf/dog hybrid is fertile and is in fact not a hybrid at all because wolves and dogs are exactly the same species. The dog is now known scientifically as Canis Lupus Familiaris and not just Canis Familiaris
 
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BobRyan

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I do not intend to open discussion about homosexuality, the Big Bang, Evolution, etc. I want to attack the issue that has kept me from keeping up with the faith: The entire conscious decision to enter into Christianity, along with my very challenging image I've mentioned in several previous posts. The image makes me seem crazy, but it has destroyed my faith and I think it's a valuable question to ask.

Given a chemistry set - do you think any scientists on earth can come up with a single living eukaryote one-celled animal? So far that task is far beyond their pay grade. They will need a bit more infinite intelligent design to master it.

Lets be honest - there is no way gas, dust and rocks will turn into a human brain - I don't care what the number of "accidents" in a just-so long-story of just-so-happens scenarios all the creative minds in the world could muster. And that is "reason" to believe in God.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Except that wolves and dogs are the same species. Apes and humans are not.

A wolf/dog hybrid is fertile and is in fact not a hybrid at all because wolves and dogs are exactly the same species. The dog is now known scientifically as Canis Lupus Familiaris and not just Canis Familiaris

Let's not turn this thread into a discussion of evolution. There are plenty of threads with that purpose.
 
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LoveJesusAndLive

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I have known people that have "read themselves into the church" - and 'the Case of Christ" is a good example of one.

yea. I think it's important to note, you have to learn to listen.. listen to what's going on inside.. don't argue with it just listen.. it may be good or real bad.. and somewhere in there, seeking the Lord, He will teach you to hear HIS voice.
 
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BobRyan

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This is what concerns me. The rest of your response can be applied to the response I gave above.

You cannot simply ignore new truths because they go against your own ideas, if you're actually seeking Truth. Truth means understanding why we're here, what we're here for, and were we're going. Science is not evil in nature, but those that oppose its progress pose it that way because it simply does force them to morph their beliefs. Please do not take offense to this post, I know that it is very blunt, but I'm not attempting to "pick a fight", just conversing in a good debate.

Evolutionists often struggle with that concept.

=======================================================

Collin Patterson (atheist and diehard evolutionist to the day he died in 1998) - Paleontologist British Museum of Natural history speaking at the American Museum of Natural History in 1981 - said


Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing…that is true?


I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural history and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology seminar in the University of Chicago, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said “I know one thing – it ought not to be taught in high school”


"...I'm speaking on two subjects, evolutionism and creationism, and I believe it's true to say that I know nothing whatever about either...One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, well, let's call it non-evolutionary , was last year I had a sudden realization.


"For over twenty years I had thought that I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up, and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff fortwenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. "That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long...


It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and perhaps that's all we know about it...


about eighteen months ago...I woke up and I realized that all my life I had been duped into taking evolutionism as revealed truth in some way."



================================================
Patterson - quotes Gillespie's arguing that Christians

"'...holding creationist ideas could plead ignorance of the means and affirm only the fact,'"


Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying):'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"


"...Now I think that many people in this room would acknowledge that during the last few years, if you had thought about it at all, you've experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith. I know that's true of me, and I think it's true of a good many of you in here...


"...,Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge , apparent knowledge which is actually harmful to systematics..."


=====================================

In that sequence you have a world renown atheist scientist lamenting his own religion of evolutionism and wishing things were a bit better for the evolutionist.

Grass always greener on the other side.
 
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BobRyan

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I will instantly profess that Christ is king and ruler of all. Any rational person that witnesses God appearing on Earth would do the exact same.

My image/question still remains unanswered, however. It seems you posed the opposite scenario to me without giving me any form of an answer. Simply put, if 100% undeniable proof somehow came to be that we were not created by the Christian God, would you accept or deny it?

God thunders from Sinai - in Ex 20 -- and the people are "quaking" (not doubting His existence) at the end of that chapter. Yet eventually they are ready to stone Moses (a few times during the next 40 years).

So the fact that God puts on the big - shock and awe - program for them at the giving of the TEN commandments does not stop them from turning against Him - as it did not stop Lucifer.

Doubt is funny that way.
 
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BobRyan

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Let's not turn this thread into a discussion of evolution. There are plenty of threads with that purpose.

I was responding to your own post on that topic -
Today at 7:03 PM #88

I did not select that initiative

- as you say there is an area of the board where that can be discussed without end.
 
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BobRyan

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I appreciate the response.

Lately I have thought about the "Truth" and what that means. To me, it means that I'm interested in truly knowing/understanding where I came from, why I'm here, and where I'm going. Christians refer to the "Truth" as the word of God, Bible, etc. but try to discredit, disprove, or reject scientific discoveries, social advancements, etc. (homosexuality, center of the universe, age of the earth, etc) or warp them into their own understanding of what the Bible really explains.

I've wrestled with a very interesting image which has caused me to lose faith over the past few years: If humanity became aware of the way we got here and the evidence was 100% undeniable, (the exact way this would be presented/discovered is above my comprehension, but the image works nonetheless) would Christians reject their faith? The answer is no. That lack of critical thinking and the mental slavery that is self-induced has lead me away from the belief.

on the contrary - Christians invented science as we know it today

================================

It is significant that the early pioneers in modern science were men of deep Christian faith.

For Copernicus, the first astronomer of the scientific revolution, God was personally responsible for all the activity in the heavens. His radical ideas were contained in his book On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres, which was published in 1543, the year of his death. The regularity he was discovering in the movements of the planets was, for him, a manifestation of the faithfulness of a loving Creator.

"It is significant that the early pioneers in modern science were men of deep Christian faith"
Galileo (d. 1642) invented the hydrostatic balance and discovered the laws of dynamics from observation of falling bodies. However, he is chiefly known for his achievements in astronomy. His discovery of the four satellites of Jupiter on January 7, 1610, with the aid of the newly invented telescope, revolutionised the study of astronomy. He has been called the first modern scientist and his work confirmed the observations of Copernicus. He regarded his science as illuminating the work of the Creator. For all his quarrelling with the church he remained a devout Christian until he died.

Kepler, the German astronomer, a contemporary of Galileo, was also a devout Christian. His discovery of the three laws of planetary motion laid the foundation for Newton's theory of gravity. He regarded his study of the physical universe as "thinking God's thoughts after him". In The Secret of the Universe he wrote:

Here we are concerned with the book of nature, so greatly celebrated in sacred writings. It is in this that Paul proposes to the Gentiles that they should contemplate God like the Sun in water or in a mirror. Why then as Christians should we take any less delight in its contemplation, since it is for us with true worship to honor God, to venerate him, to wonder at him? The more rightly we understand the nature and scope of what our God has founded, the more devoted the spirit in which that is done.

The baton of scientific leadership passed in the next generation to Newton, born in the year of Galileo's death. Though he had problems with the Christian view of the Trinity, he was a strong believer. As a member of the Anglican Church he was involved in distribution of Bibles to the poor and the construction of new churches. He actually wrote more than a million words on the Bible and theological topics, more than he wrote on science. His well-worn Bible, with marginal notes in his own handwriting, is in the Wren Library of Trinity College, Cambridge. He became the foremost mathematician in Europe. He published Principia mathematica in 1667, "a book that transformed the course of western science". His work gave new direction to optics, mechanics and celestial dynamics. His work on gravity established the Cambridge reputation for mathematics. His studies of light produced the first reflecting telescope. His invention of calculus gave science the mathematical tool it needed for further exploration of the trails he blazed.

Robert Boyle, the "father of chemistry" and one of the founders of the Royal Society, left the sum of £50 per annum in his will for a series of eight lectures to be given against unbelievers in some church in London.

The influence of Christianity in the early days can be seen very clearly in the formation in 1660 of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge, normally known just as the Royal Society, which was very significant in the promotion of scientific advances. Most of its members were professing Christians.

Atheistic science, which followed on from the French Revolution, reached Britain in the 1820s. However, it could still be said in the mid-nineteenth century that most of the world's scholars and scientists were still professedly Christian. The British Association for the Advancement of Science was formed in 1832. Clergymen were active in its formation and provided three of its presidents during the first five years
 
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BobRyan

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D. James Kennedy gives a list of some of the outstanding Bible-believing scientists who gave the lead in founding the following branches of science. This list is worth repeating:

Antiseptic Surgery: Joseph Lister
Bacteriology: Louis Pasteur
Calculus: Isaac Newton
Celestial Mechanics: Johannes Kepler
Chemistry: Robert Boyle
Comparative Anatomy: Georges Cuvier
Dimensional Analysis: Lord Rayleigh
Dynamics: Isaac Newton
Electronics: John Ambrose Fleming
Electrodynamics: James Clerk Maxwell
Electromagnetics: Michael Faraday
Energetics: Lord Kelvin
Entomology of Living Insects: Henri Fabre
Field Theory: James Clerk Maxwell
Fluid Mechanics: George Stokes
Galactic Astronomy: Sir William Hershel
Gas Dynamics: Robert Boyle
Genetics: Gregor Mendel
Glacial Geology: Louis Agassiz
Gynaecology: James Simpson
Hydrography: Matthew Maury
Hydrostatics: Blaise Pascal
Ichthyology: Louis Agassiz
Isotopic Chemistry: William Ramsey
Model Analysis: Lord Rayleigh
Natural History: John Ray
Non-Euclidean Geometry: Bernard Riemann
Oceanography: Matthew Maury
Optical Mineralogy: David Brewster
 
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