Hyper Spritualizing

[SnowyMacie]

I was in another section of the site, and came across this argument that we have a tendency in the church to hyper-spiritualize everything. In other words, to assume it's supernatural before assuming the natural.

"In my opinion the modern church has hyper-spiritualized everything. I know people who think every time they get a cold, it's the devil, or every time something good happens its a gift from God. I'm not saying that the devil doesn't do things to interfere with our life or that God never gives us gifts, but you probably got sick because someone sneezed on you. Some people just always seem to over look the simple and physical rational behind these things to attribute them to the supernatural. For example, you find $20 on the street and say "Isn't God great! What a blessing!" I say no, some unfortunate person lost that $20 and you happened to be the first person to stumble across it. Not everything has to have some supernatural underlining meaning behind it."

Do you agree that we tend to over-spiritualize things? Do you think this is a problem? Thoughts!

 

[Tess]

This is a tricky question! Is it hyper-spiritualised to say that good things in life are from God? I don't think so, because God is pure goodness, all goodness comes from God. But is it hyper spiritualised to think bad things come from Satan? I think perhaps it is...? Because bad things can come from other humans' sin. But then maybe that's a bit of an oxymoron to say all good things come from God but not all bad things are from Satan. I'm not sure!

It brings up another question:
Does God care about our day to day?
I want to say yes, but then again, do I really believe that He cares what I have for breakfast? Probably not; so it's hard to draw the line. Furthermore, if God cares about our day to day, then it makes sense to assume Satan does too. Very interesting!

 

[Gnarwhal]

Yes I do think we over-spiritualize.

I don't know if you're referring to the same thread, but I was in a discussion in GT about miracles. My argument is that we've lost our doctrine of providence, that we fail to recognize the natural systems in the world that were established by God. Like a good distinction between the miraculous and the providential is that God condescending to us in the incarnation is a miracle, but his actual nine-month gestation and birth was providence.

There's a mentality in parts of Christianity that says if everything good isn't identified as a miracle then people like Richard Dawkins are somehow right. There's so much going on in the world that is not miraculous, but it's no less wonderful, beautiful, and ordained by God.

We need to rediscover that doctrine and understand how frequently we're actually missing out on what God's doing simply because we're looking for the next big thing when the ordinary ways that God functions in this world are happening every day.

 

[sundewgrower]

I think some people over think things and forget that God does in fact toss some chance into things.
Not every single thing is done by him, he does have to let people make their own decisions, and give people a form of moderated free will.
Of course some things are by him. Just depends.
I could flip out, do stupid things, and ruin my chance of getting married.
Or be sane then perhaps a potentially planned/predestined spouse may come along... Some of this is "I dunno" so that's just my random thoughts on it.

 

[Qyöt27]

It's pretty much endemic to the [openly or subtly] anti-intellectual sects of Christianity, in some of them even to the point where it's not simply 'hyperspiritualization', it's out-and-out superstitious nonsense. Take any nutjob rant about 'secular' music opening spiritual corridors for demons to possess you. :eyeroll:

 

[Travelers.Soul]

I think the tendency is to over spiritualize, perhaps not in every denomination or in every aspect of life but the danger is there. Does God care about our day to day life and guide our steps? Yes. Is there a demon behind every bush? No. I have dear sweet friends that believe if they "speak" something then they are "speaking it into existence." So for instance, if they feel like they are getting sick they will never say it because if they do then that makes it true. Which as far as I am concerned is utter nonsense and not Scriptural but I love them so we agree to disagree.

 

[sundewgrower]

I think the tendency is to over spiritualize, perhaps not in every denomination or in every aspect of life but the danger is there. Does God care about our day to day life and guide our steps? Yes. Is there a demon behind every bush? No. I have dear sweet friends that believe if they "speak" something then they are "speaking it into existence." So for instance, if they feel like they are getting sick they will never say it because if they do then that makes it true. Which as far as I am concerned is utter nonsense and not Scriptural but I love them so we agree to disagree.

Ah yes. Name it and claim it. My grandmother doesn't like how I'm saying that I feel sick or am getting ill.
If I have to go to the bathroom then I need to go. If I'm getting the flue then probably I'm getting it.

 

[Goodbook]

Thoughts.
Name it and claim it people do, us regular christians dont.

 

[KitKatMatt]

This reminds me of the heck I've been through trying to talk about my struggles with sleep paralysis. Apparently to nearly everyone I've spoken to, "sleep paralysis" doesn't exist, it's just the devil trying to control you.

Doesn't matter if it's a known medical phenomena, and that once I figured out what specific sleep schedule my body needed it went away. Nope, it's the devil.

 

[Celticroots]

It's pretty much endemic to the [openly or subtly] anti-intellectual sects of Christianity, in some of them even to the point where it's not simply 'hyperspiritualization', it's out-and-out superstitious nonsense. Take any nutjob rant about 'secular' music opening spiritual corridors for demons to possess you. :eyeroll:

I agree that we do tend to hyper-spiritualize things. The above post is a good example. *joins in with eye roll*. It's ridiculous!

 

[Rhamiel]

Matt, I have to thank you for elevating the level of conversation in this forum
you really do make the most interesting threads

I am uneasy with the hyper-spiritualization when I have seen it in action
a lot of people who, to my untrained eye, are a little unbalanced, have an unbalanced view of reality

now as Tess said, ALL good things come from God
I am sick and tired of the "I did it my way" crowd
the people who are convinced that they lifted themselves up by their own bootstraps and that they owe nothing to nobody
by late uncle was like this
near the end of his life, he started to get better, grow a bit more humble and turn to God, but he had already hurt so many in his family and the relationships were still being mended when a sudden illness took him.
true humility understands that everything is a gift from God

while hyper-spiritualization is a problem
I am much more concerned with those who are Christian but do not have any belief in the supernatural
where ANY talk of angels or demons or miracles is met with a scoff and a sneer

Thoughts.
Name it and claim it people do, us regular christians dont.

but everybody, no matter what their belief, sees themself as a "regular Christian"
it is everyone ELSE who is the weirdo lol

 

[High Fidelity]

but everybody, no matter what their belief, sees themself as a "regular Christian"
it is everyone ELSE who is the weirdo lol

Indeed and as much as I'd love to publicly rebuke a lot of what I see, I have to hold my tongue

 

[Travelers.Soul]

Ah yes. Name it and claim it. My grandmother doesn't like how I'm saying that I feel sick or am getting ill.
If I have to go to the bathroom then I need to go. If I'm getting the flue then probably I'm getting it.

I know, I just don't understand the whole mentality and I have no respect for the name it and claim it preachers and teachers. If I'm sick, then I'm sick and saying that I'm sick is not what made me sick.

 

[Goodbook]

Indeed and as much as I'd love to publicly rebuke a lot of what I see, I have to hold my tongue

Lol.
But im pretty sure name it and claim people think they are special and above the rest of us. Its like christian science all over again.

 

[Rhamiel]

I am lucky, I have not dealt with this "name it and claim it" thing

 

[Qyöt27]

I thought 'name it and claim it' was much more specifically just about making yourself wealthy. In other words, just the 'positive' aspect of, well, greediness. Not also a revival of old 'speak of the devil and the devil will appear' thinking (coincidentally, this is why many words for 'bear', including in English, are polite euphemisms intended to avoid uttering the real name of the creature, lest it actually show up).

 

[Rhamiel]

some Christians say that all the miracles in the Bible never really happened, that there are no such things as demons

other Christians say that you can just "name it and claim it" and think that every cold is caused by a devil.....

bad things happen when Christianity is unmoored from its traditional foundations

 

[MiniEmu]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so I apologise in advance.

Simple, physical things attributed to God, demons, etc. is not a bad thing by itself. This is not a problem, other than perhaps making people uncomfortable. If providence is the way in which God upholds the universe and its workings, then is it necessarily wrong to say that even simple things are linked to Him? I don't think so. Similarly I do not think it's necessarily a bad thing for people to view illness as being from demons, providing it doesn't prevent you from acknowledging that He has given us ways to manage the majority of illnesses.

I have no shame in admitting I probably fall into the "hyper spiritualising" camp. I do not view it as an excuse to shun certain things or just roll over and accept them, and I certainly do not hold the view that all bad things mean you've let the demons in so you just need to pray it out. No. That is a very, very extreme view which (in my flawed opinion) spits in the face of the advancements we've made. Which, from the view of someone who perhaps is the sort of person the quoted OP is dismayed by, is spitting in the face of the God given abilities of others to make those advancements .

If someone loses £20 and you find it, then we are perhaps taught this is an opportunity not to be £20 richer but to attempt to find the unfortunate who lost it. I'll also say that for some people they need to view everything in life as being engineered by God and demons, they genuinely do. They need that view, and unless that view is causing them more harm than good I see no reason to squish it.

Since I hold the view I do, perhaps I am unaware of whether the priest/denomination I follow is prone to what others view as hyper spiritualisation.

 

[Goodbook]

I was in another section of the site, and came across this argument that we have a tendency in the church to hyper-spiritualize everything. In other words, to assume it's supernatural before assuming the natural.

"In my opinion the modern church has hyper-spiritualized everything. I know people who think every time they get a cold, it's the devil, or every time something good happens its a gift from God. I'm not saying that the devil doesn't do things to interfere with our life or that God never gives us gifts, but you probably got sick because someone sneezed on you. Some people just always seem to over look the simple and physical rational behind these things to attribute them to the supernatural. For example, you find $20 on the street and say "Isn't God great! What a blessing!" I say no, some unfortunate person lost that $20 and you happened to be the first person to stumble across it. Not everything has to have some supernatural underlining meaning behind it."

Do you agree that we tend to over-spiritualize things? Do you think this is a problem? Thoughts!

What section of this site were you in? This is a pretty huge site and theres all sorts of different kinds of groups on here so I think it be fair to say some people do and some dont.
If you asking just the single crowd you wouldnt get a uniform answer because some are christians and some are not. (I have no idea why non christians want to hang out with us christians lol! Arent we too weird for them?? ) but I would say to a non christian of course its gonna be spiritual in a way they have no experience of and dont really understand.

And yes, there prolly some name it and claim it people on here.
I dont think its really a problem...but with the name it and claim it people the way they treat the poor and sick can shipwreck peoples faith because they demand God to heal on the spot when we know He doesnt always do this. So there is that.

 

[Cearbhall]

I was in another section of the site, and came across this argument that we have a tendency in the church to hyper-spiritualize everything. In other words, to assume it's supernatural before assuming the natural.

"In my opinion the modern church has hyper-spiritualized everything. I know people who think every time they get a cold, it's the devil

Oy vey. People actually think/say this? I know some people who "hyper-spiritualize" things, in my opinion, but I don't know anyone who goes this far.