Husband as head of household....?

[JohnPeter]

To add, the Bible teaches mutual submission. Man is not superior to woman. Yet, he came first in the creation order, which is important to Paul; and to understanding Paul's socio-cultural perspective.

 

[shoshanarose]

Lynnie:
What the bible says and what we understand are too many times NOT same thing and I think that it is far better,--- if we believe that the Bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God ---that we try not to make it makes sense in light of our reality or understanding. We actually should take the word of God and read and ask to UNDERSTAND the times in which we live and HOW we are to live in this world. Gods ways are SO much higher than our ways...His thoughts are higher than our thoughts...how can we ever attain to them?

Getting to submission...I used to call this the "dirty" christian word because my husband; bless his heart, and I both had misunderstandings about our roles and NEEDS as a couple and husband, wife, father and mother...It actually got to a power struggle and I was called those bad names (contentious, rebellious, etc.) and I was seeing him as controlling and manipulative, etc...It was NOT a pretty site. We both needed to be humbled and made aware of GOD'S plan for marriage and to help us assume our roles and work within GOD'S plan for us we studied the scriptures. We read a book called Love and Respect by E. Eggerich...this helped us both drammatically increased our understanding of the scripture where men are admonish to LOVE their wives as Christ loved the church and the wives are to SUBMIT (RESPECT) their husbands...It also helped to "clean up" that dirty word and I feel safe and loved, he feels safe and respected.

We believe that it is written in scripture that way, not because men do not know how to love their wives; but what they portrayed as love to them was not perceived as loving by the wives just as the wives are told to submit to their husbands, not because they are contentious, etc but that they may act in ways that appear to be disrespectful ways (unintentionally). We have celebrated 8 years and love (and respect) each other and SUBMIT MORE TO EACH OTHER than ever before...I believe that the former has to PRECEDE the later in marriage...it does work. God's plans always work when we do them God's way...
God bless...keep reading...keep trusting and keep growing! Don't doubt God...HE IS RIGHT!!!

Praying for you all...blessings in Jesus' Name.

 

[mahalia]

Please don't get so caught up in study and translations that you miss the heart of the Word.

oh dear, i don't believe that i miss the heart of the Word... it's the one thing that keeps me going, it's the one thing that keeps me hoping and faithful.

i just don't consider this part - female submissiveness - to be the heart of the Word. there are other parts, a lot more important imo, that is simply overlooked by society (hmmm, i wonder why?). in fact, i don't worry about it anymore. i know what i believe and let no one but God judge me for that.

 

[Cris413]

oh dear, i don't believe that i miss the heart of the Word... it's the one thing that keeps me going, it's the one thing that keeps me hoping and faithful.

i just don't consider this part - female submissiveness - to be the heart of the Word. there are other parts, a lot more important imo, that is simply overlooked by society (hmmm, i wonder why?). in fact, i don't worry about it anymore. i know what i believe and let no one but God judge me for that.

Please forgive me...it was not my intent to suggest you miss the heart of the Word. I honestly did not mean to sound judgemental. Sometimes I forget that the heart of what a person is trying to express does not communicate well in type. Had I been speaking to you directly you could have heard in my voice and seen in my eyes that I only meant it as a heartfelt concern.

Please accept my apologies if I my comments were hurtful.

Obviously, we do differ in our belief regarding submission. But we can agree to disagree and not let it divide us in the body of Christ.

Amen?

Cris

 

[Cris413]

Please forgive me...it was not my intent to suggest you miss the heart of the Word. I honestly did not mean to sound judgemental. Sometimes I forget that the heart of what a person is trying to express does not communicate well in type. Had I been speaking to you directly you could have heard in my voice and seen in my eyes that I only meant it as a heartfelt concern.

Please accept my apologies if I my comments were hurtful.

Obviously, we do differ in our belief regarding submission. But we can agree to disagree and not let it divide us in the body of Christ.

Amen?

Cris

PS...there are a lot of wisdom and insightful posts in this thread regarding submission and the heart of submission. I was blessed by many of them. I hope you were too.

 

[Athene]

The heart of submission is the belief that men are somehow superior to women. It's all there in the language used by people who advocate female submission, the husband is the leader of the house, he has the final say, he is the spiritual covering of the wife, he will be held chiefly accountable for things which go on in the family.

 

[BereanTodd]

The heart of submission is the belief that men are somehow superior to women. It's all there in the language used by people who advocate female submission, the husband is the leader of the house, he has the final say, he is the spiritual covering of the wife, he will be held chiefly accountable for things which go on in the family.

It has nothing to do with superiority. Is Christ inferior to the Father? Yet Christ willingly submitted to the Father, and eternally does so. Are you better than Him? Is it ok for Him to have to submit but not you?

Men and women are completely equal, one is no more important than the other, but God has called us to separate roles. You can deny and/or twist Scripture all that you want, but it is there plain and simple.

 

[Cris413]

The heart of submission is the belief that men are somehow superior to women. It's all there in the language used by people who advocate female submission, the husband is the leader of the house, he has the final say, he is the spiritual covering of the wife, he will be held chiefly accountable for things which go on in the family.

To me personally, the heart of submission is not grounded in belief that my husband is superior (although he is a much better cook than I am, among other things). The heart of submission to me is first and foremost being submissive to the Word of God.

 

[*Starlight*]

Men and women are completely equal, one is no more important than the other, but God has called us to separate roles.

As I said before, reality contradicts the idea of traditional gender roles. In reality, every person's role in life is determined by his or her unique personality, talents, abilities, etc. Not by the kind of reproductive organs a person has.

 

[BereanTodd]

As I said before, reality contradicts the idea of traditional gender roles. In reality, every person's role in life is determined by his or her unique personality, talents, abilities, etc. Not by the kind of reproductive organs a person has.

A woman may have gifts of leadership and such, and there are proper places for them to be used, but within the home she is called to submission.

Was Jesus not qualified nor gifted with leadership? I would say He was the greatest leader ever to walk to earth myself, and yet He willingly submits to the Father. Not because the Father is more worthy, or superior, but because that is their role. Christ was willing to accept it. Are you?

But by your own words you seem to think that certain things were ok for Christ but are beneath you. Now who should we agree with? Christ or you?

 

[*Starlight*]

A woman may have gifts of leadership and such, and there are proper places for them to be used, but within the home she is called to submission.

Even if she's a much better leader than her husband? Can you explain, without saying "the Bible says so", how's that reasonable and logical?

 

[Athene]

It has nothing to do with superiority. Is Christ inferior to the Father? Yet Christ willingly submitted to the Father, and eternally does so. Are you better than Him? Is it ok for Him to have to submit but not you?

Men and women are completely equal, one is no more important than the other, but God has called us to separate roles. You can deny and/or twist Scripture all that you want, but it is there plain and simple.

Ah yes, that old chestnut, it's an interesting solution to the problem of womens rights. make women equal BUT clearly distinguish their roles and make those roles subordinate. I don't buy it,

What is a role? It's a term used to describe what people do, who cooks dinner, who washes the dishes afterwards for example, in my family my husband has the role of cooking and I have the role of washing the dishes. Roles change, during my recent pregnancy in my last trimester I suffered horrible back problems so my husband took over my role of afterdinnerdishwasherer. Roles also differ from culture to culture.

But this is not the meaning of 'role' espoused by those who proclaim that God has given men and women distincitve roles, oh no, what they mean is who has power and authority and who does not a, men have the role of leadership because they are men, women have the 'role' of obeying because they are women. With this comes the belief that women are lacking in something, something which only men have and which was given to them by God - the ability to be leaders. This is not an attitude of equality towards women and no amount of linguistic gymanstics will make it so.

 

[JeanR]

I was married 29 years to a wonderful, godly man. He was clearly the head of our household and submitting to his authority was never a problem.

Now, here is the but. Now that I am a widow and I deeply miss and grieve for my husband, I will never remarry. Why, because of this very issue. I like making my own decisions. I submit to the authority of God and my pastor and I am fine with leaving it at that.

I would love the companionship of a godly man, but I would prefer that he just go home. Too many complications to deal with at this stage of my life.

 

[Reformationist]

So my bf and I got in an argument about the verse (I dont have my bible right here so im not sure exactly what verse) Where it says that the Male is head of the household. Can someone please explain this to me? What exactly it means and how it fits into our world in 2007 with women playing a HUGE roll in the household now.... Thanx!

It refers to God ordaining man as the spiritual head of the household, primarily responsible before God for ensuring that his family is trained and washed in the Word. This is not an advocation of any authoritative dominance of man, nor is it pejorative towards women. Women have always held an indespensible role in the family and they always will. Man is to honor her and love her as Christ loved the Church.

There are simply different roles for men and women in the family. It's not a contest. It's a team event. In fact, it is the most focused environment that God blesses us with to be sanctified. The most successful families are those that do not strive against one another but, rather, recognize their reliance upon the the other. It is only when we truly acknowledge our dependence upon our spouse that we will be free to fill our own role without reservation.

God bless

 

[The Princess Bride]

With this comes the belief that women are lacking in something, something which only men have and which was given to them by God - the ability to be leaders. This is not an attitude of equality towards women and no amount of linguistic gymanstics will make it so.

In Christ we are all the same and joint heirs "...there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ." Gal 3:28

Women were made because God found Adam to be lacking something, not vice versa.

I Corinthians 11:7-12 are great verses speaking directly to this:
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

In everything else in life we have "equality", and it is all about "equal" benefits, opportunities, education..etc...I think in everything BUT marriage, it should be about balance and equality, but God made man first for a purpose, and that was to be the "sheild" of a woman, not something to limit her or drag her down.

 

[Athene]

In everything else in life we have "equality", and it is all about "equal" benefits, opportunities, education..etc...I think in everything BUT marriage, it should be about balance and equality, but God made man first for a purpose, and that was to be the "sheild" of a woman, not something to limit her or drag her down.

I don't understand what you are trying to get at here? Shield from what? If order of creation is so important are cows and pigs the shield of man as they were created before him?

 

[mahalia]

just a simple thought... have any of you read animal farm by george orwell?

 

[The Princess Bride]

I don't understand what you are trying to get at here? Shield from what?

If you have never read "Captivating" by John and Stasi Eldredge, I highly recommend you do.

I choose the word "Shield" for many reasons (applying to MOST families...) 1)Men are the main provider 2)Women take on the mans name at marriage 3)God designed for the man to be the woman's protector.

If order of creation is so important are cows and pigs the shield of man as they were created before him?

That is irrelevant and silly for that to even happen, humans are spiritual beings, while pigs and cows are only flesh, the reasoning behind leadership and authority goes beyond flesh.

But since you did bring that up...who generally is the leader in groups or herds of animals...the males...now isnt that interesting...

 

[Athene]

If you have never read "Captivating" by John and Stasi Eldredge, I highly recommend you do.

I choose the word "Shield" for many reasons (applying to MOST families...) 1)Men are the main provider 2)Women take on the mans name at marriage 3)God designed for the man to be the woman's protector.

So God designed man to be a womans shield and specifically had the modern western world in mind? I get the feeling I'm still not entirely understanding the point your're trying to make.

I'll give you point 3 though, women are particularly vulnerable during pregnancy and childbirth.

That is irrelevant and silly for that to even happen, humans are spiritual beings, while pigs and cows are only flesh, the reasoning behind leadership and authority goes beyond flesh.

If the reasoning behind leadership and authority go beyond flesh then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unless you want to take the view that women are somehow spiritually deficient and therefore unsuitable to a leadership role.

But since you did bring that up...who generally is the leader in groups or herds of animals...the males...now isnt that interesting...

[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's entirely accurate.

 

[New_Wineskin]

just a simple thought... have any of you read animal farm by george orwell?

One of my favorite books .

So apt for mainline christianity in so many ways . Many times when I see/read a leader , I feel like I am looking through the farmhouse window seeing the pigs inside wearing human clothes and walking on their hind legs . Jesus made us all equal but there are always those attempting to boss others around . Jesus answered that attitude concerning James and John . Jesus came to serve - a *true* leader ( whether a "pastor" or a husband ) leads by serving - not serving by leading . Leading isn't serving . Peter lost that concept rather quickly when he declared that waiting on tables was beneath him . Many have followed suit through the years thinking that Peter was declaring a truth even though he contradicted the Lord .