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AureateDawn

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Hey! :wave: I've been interested in dinosaurs since I was teeny tiny, and as a new Christian I am simply fascinated with origins theology. I read the sticky thread to find these the most plausible:



3. Young Earth Creationists - believe that the earth and universe are both young (less than 10,000 years old) and that all the diversity of species is the result of special creation, based on a literal reading of Scripture (even if not AS literal as those above).

4. Gap Theorists (a form of Old Earth Creationism) - Believe that the earth and universe were created at the time science says, but that God created Man and all the animals at the "young earth" time frame. Some believe this is a "recreation", God having scrapped an earlier version (dinosaurs, etc).

5. Progressive Creationists (aka "Day-Age Creationists", another form of OEC)- Believe that the earth and universe were created at the time science says, but that each "day" in Genesis referred to an indefinite period of time. Genesis is a historically and scientifically accurate account, just that it happened over a VERY long time period.

6. Theistic Evolutionists (with a literal Adam and Eve) - believe in an old earth and universe, but accept that God used evolution as part of His creation, basically as science describes it. But they feel that there was a literal Adam and Eve in a literal Garden. Some attribute this Adam and Eve to an instance of special creation, others to election as "representatives", etc. Also believe in biogenesis, not abiogenesis.

7. Theistic Evolutionists (no literal Adam and Eve, but biogenesis) - believe that Man evolved along with the other species (pursuant to God’s plan), but that the initial spark of life was immediately God induced. Some even push this forward to some mass special creation of a variety of "kinds" around the Cambrian period, with all the species evolving from there.

8. Theistic Evolutionists (abiogenesis) - God created everything and established the full system of natural laws upon with the universe and the earth would work. And it did. With life arising at the time and place He had known it would, etc.



So.... ya... a big rush for me as previously I had thought there was only YEC and OEC. The Gap Theory is the most intriguing, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Me? I'm not one for bickering. So... please don't get into a debate here. I'd just like to know what sort of Biblical proof there is for these various origin viewpoints so I can get a grasp and perhaps decide which is the most accurate. Thanks! :thumbsup:
 

Mallon

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If you're ultimately deriving all your facts about the world from the Bible without paying any mind to science, you'll most likely end up a YEC. If you think the methodology of science can reveal some truth about how (not 'why') the world works, you'll most likely end up a TE. If you're only into reading the Bible semi-literally and taking science semi-seriously, you'll probably fall somewhere in between.
 
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gluadys

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AnomalousSilence said:
Hey! :wave: I've been interested in dinosaurs since I was teeny tiny, and as a new Christian I am simply fascinated with origins theology. I read the sticky thread to find these the most plausible:
So.... ya... a big rush for me as previously I had thought there was only YEC and OEC. The Gap Theory is the most intriguing, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Me? I'm not one for bickering. So... please don't get into a debate here. I'd just like to know what sort of Biblical proof there is for these various origin viewpoints so I can get a grasp and perhaps decide which is the most accurate. Thanks! :thumbsup:

Welcome Anomalous.

It depends on what you mean by Biblical proof. You won’t find proof texts (specific verses) for any of the views you cited, for several reasons. For example, all of the bible was written long before geologists discovered how old the earth is, so no one was debating the question then. Ditto for evolution. We only start asking questions about how to interpret the bible in the light of scientific discoveries after the discoveries have been made.

So, rather than finding scriptural texts which speak specifically in favour of a young or old earth, or special creation vs. evolution, what you have are different views based on:
a) the nature and character of God,
b) the proper basis for interpreting scripture.

As a TE, I believe it is that the orderly processes of nature are grounded in the orderly and rational nature of God. So what I look for in scripture is not a text that says “the earth is so many years old” or “evolution is how God created”, but rather the biblical testimony to how God brings order out of chaos (Genesis 1 is a good example) and sustains the processes of nature. Then when geologists discover that the orderly processes of nature show the earth is 4.5 billion years old, I believe them, because that fits with what I believe about the nature of God as revealed in the bible.

Also, I reject the idea that there is one “default” system for understanding the bible, that is to be used except where the text indicates otherwise. So I do not accept that the text must be a straightforward report of actual events except when it is labeled “parable”. That is an assumption about scripture for which IMO there is no logical or literary basis.
 
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Assyrian

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AnomalousSilence said:
Me? I'm not one for bickering. So... please don't get into a debate here. I'd just like to know what sort of Biblical proof there is for these various origin viewpoints so I can get a grasp and perhaps decide which is the most accurate. Thanks! :thumbsup:
Hi AnomalousSilence, welcome to Origins.

I probably don't fit in the series you read. My nearest take on Genesis is day age, or what might be described as a 6xGap theory (the work of creation was done in gaps before each of the days listed), but at the same time I am an abiogenesis TE.

I don't think proof texts work very well in this debate, because the first thing you have to decide is whether the passage is literal or figurative. I would argue the only two verse in the bible that actually mention a six day creation are in the middle of metaphors. God describes himself as if he were a workman weary after a week's labour. But we know God does not get tired.

However, if you want some interesting verses from a TE perspective, how about Genesis 1:24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures..." God actually commanded the earth to produce living creatures rather than creating them all himself supernaturally.

Another question is Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. Why is the creation of heaven and earth of plants and animals and human beings described using a word that means a genealogy?

Cheers Assyrian
 
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jereth

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Hi Anomalous,

I'll give you my personal opinion about the options that you selected:

3 - YEC
I really don't like this position, though I held it for the first 17 years of my life. I think it misuses the Bible and has very little respect for science. To learn all about YEC I suggest you visit www.answersingenesis.org

4 - Gap
There are 2 versions of Gap theory. "Soft gap theory" holds that the universe, solar system and earth were made bilions of years ago (Genesis 1:1), but life was created only 6000 years ago (Genesis 1:2ff.). This view respects the cosmological, astronomical and geological evidence for an old universe/old earth. However, it ignores the fact that fossils are distributed thoughout the entire geological column.

"Ruin-reconstruction" Gap theory tries to explain the fossil record, but is based on a very bad interpretation of the Bible. This view believes that there was an earlier creation of life, perhaps millions of years ago, that became "ruined" by a judgment of God. The "reconstruction" of life occured 6000 years ago and is described in Genesis 1.

5 - Progressive creation
I don't have a major problem with this view, but I disagree with the "Day-Age" biblical interpretation. When I quit YEC, I was a progressive creationist for several years, and believed that Genesis 1 was a non-historical literary device.

6-8 TE
I'm currently a TE, probably with a mix of views from position 6 and position 8. If you decide you want to be a TE, you need to make sure you can justify it very well theologically.

Cheers, and all the best with your search!
 
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shernren

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Hello AS! I'm glad that you have come here with the attitude of wanting to learn. It's a good sign in a Christian. :)

I've set down a lot of my thoughts in this particular thread about creationism and how it actually works. It will probably be very heavy for a first reading, but I think that my jottings may be helpful as you start out on your journey. http://www.christianforums.com/t2848141-the-scientific-myth-of-creationism.html

Please feel free to ask if you're not sure about anything. TEs are nice people. (Or at least, they can be. :p)

By the way, here are some commonly used abbreviations here:

AiG - Answers in Genesis
ICR - Institute for Creation Research
YEC - Young Earth Creationist
OEC - Old Earth Creationist
TE - Theistic Evolutionist
PRATT - Point Refuted A Thousand Times
OTOH - Off (the) top of (my) head
AFAIK - As far as I know
IIRC - If I recall/remember correctly
OP - Original post / original poster (the starting post in a thread)

Have fun here!
 
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shernren

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Haha ... that's one of my concerns, really, how to communicate TE in a form which doesn't need as much thought to absorb. Maybe that should be my next project, since the Myth thread seems reasonably wrapped up (unless anyone can suggest new areas of consideration).
 
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stumpjumper

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Welcome AnomolausSilence

You can also check out the Christian Wiki here for some more information on many of these topics.

I wrote the one on [wiki]Theistic Evolution[/wiki] and there is a link within it to the young earth creation wiki...
 
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