How to Get Government Control of Churches Stopped

[Franciscus12]

I am submitting a link to an extremely important rather lengthy article dealing with what can be done to get the church in this country away from government control in areas such as marriage, homosexuality and abortion. IT IS A MUST READ FOR EVERY CHURCH AND CHRISTIAN IN THIS NATION to protect their constitutional rights under the first amendment. After reading it, please pass it on to other Christians and their churches.

MARRIAGE: RITE OF CHURCH OR GOVERNMENT?
http://newswithviews.com/Barnewall/marilyn211.htm

By Marilyn MacGruder Barnewall
August 30, 2015
NewsWithViews.com



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[Armoured]

What nation?

 

[SepiaAndDust]

What control?

 

[bhsmte]

I am submitting a link to an extremely important rather lengthy article dealing with what can be done to get the church in this country away from government control in areas such as marriage, homosexuality and abortion. IT IS A MUST READ FOR EVERY CHURCH AND CHRISTIAN IN THIS NATION to protect their constitutional rights under the first amendment. After reading it, please pass it on to other Christians and their churches.

MARRIAGE: RITE OF CHURCH OR GOVERNMENT?
http://newswithviews.com/Barnewall/marilyn211.htm

By Marilyn MacGruder Barnewall
August 30, 2015
NewsWithViews.com



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Exactly how is the government controlling what this church does in regards to it's theology?

 

[jgarden]

Nobody is forcing America's churches to conduct ir recognize marriages involving gays.

If churches refuse to recognize marriages involving gays, does that also extend to marriages of agnostics, aetheists or those with a religion other that Christianity?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Long before the birth of Jesus Christ and Christianity, marriage was perceived by the world’s oldest civilizations as the best means to insure property would be lawfully passed to the legitimate children of a specific sire.

Are you saying, if a man cheats, with multiple women get them pregnant. These children wouldn't get part of his inheritance. And you're okay with that?

Men were the property owners; women were more or less the property of men – much as they still are in various parts of the world.

I sure glad I'm not property. Also I'm glad LGBT are free to get married. So I'm glad the government gets involved, since Christian try to deny people their rights.

 

[Red Fox]

I sure glad I'm not property. Also I'm glad LGBT are free to get married. So I'm glad the government gets involved, since Christian try to deny people their rights.

Yeah, no kidding. I was thinking more a long the lines of the church getting out of the marriage business. I think there would be a lot less discrimination toward LGBT equal rights in this country if it did, but that is my personal opinion, which is probably shared by other non-Christians though. I'm usually not one to support the government of this country, but in some cases when it concerns equal rights and religious bigotry, I am glad that the government gets involved in these kind of issues too.

 

[trunks2k]

I really don't get what is so hard about this. Churches have the right to refuse to perform any marriage it wishes to. This has been true in the past and will remain true in the future.

 

[TheBarrd]

Any church that applies for a 501c3 tax exemption is voluntarily giving up their constitutional right.
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why so many do this, when it is not necessary.

 

[bhsmte]

Any church that applies for a 501c3 tax exemption is voluntarily giving up their constitutional right.
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why so many do this, when it is not necessary.

What constitutional rights do they give up?

 

[TheBarrd]

Look up "Johnson Amendment".
One freedom the church gives up is the right to speak out either for or against any political candidate running for any office.

"Currently, the law prohibits political campaign activity by charities and churches by defining a 501(c)(3) organization as one "which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Charities,-Churches-and-Politics

 

[TheBarrd]

What constitutional rights do they give up?

And again:

"For a 501c3 church to openly speak out, or organize in opposition to, anything that the government declares "legal," even if it is immoral (e.g. abortion, homosexuality, etc.), that church will jeopardize its tax exempt status. The 501c3 has had a "chilling effect" upon the free speech rights of the church. LBJ was a shrewd and cunning politician who seemed to well-appreciate how easily many of the clergy would sell out. "

"Not only is it completely unnecessary for any church to seek 501c3 status, to do so becomes a grant of jurisdiction to the IRS by any church that obtains that State favor. In the words of Steve Nestor, IRS Sr. Revenue Officer (ret.):

"I am not the only IRS employee who’s wondered why churches go to the government and seek permission to be exempted from a tax they didn’t owe to begin with, and to seek a tax deductible status that they’ve always had anyway. Many of us have marveled at how church leaders want to be regulated and controlled by an agency of government that most Americans have prayed would just get out of their lives. Churches are in an amazingly unique position, but they don’t seem to know or appreciate the implications of what it would mean to be free of government control."


http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm

 

[bhsmte]

And again:

"For a 501c3 church to openly speak out, or organize in opposition to, anything that the government declares "legal," even if it is immoral (e.g. abortion, homosexuality, etc.), that church will jeopardize its tax exempt status. The 501c3 has had a "chilling effect" upon the free speech rights of the church. LBJ was a shrewd and cunning politician who seemed to well-appreciate how easily many of the clergy would sell out. "

"Not only is it completely unnecessary for any church to seek 501c3 status, to do so becomes a grant of jurisdiction to the IRS by any church that obtains that State favor. In the words of Steve Nestor, IRS Sr. Revenue Officer (ret.):

"I am not the only IRS employee who’s wondered why churches go to the government and seek permission to be exempted from a tax they didn’t owe to begin with, and to seek a tax deductible status that they’ve always had anyway. Many of us have marveled at how church leaders want to be regulated and controlled by an agency of government that most Americans have prayed would just get out of their lives. Churches are in an amazingly unique position, but they don’t seem to know or appreciate the implications of what it would mean to be free of government control."






http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm

Has any of this stopped the Westboro Baptist church types from speaking out in public?

Church's can preach whatever theology they like and have always been able to do so. What they can not do, is get directly involved in politics and supporting certain politicians, etc and it has ALWAYS been this way for church's.

But, never fear, church's can speak out and preach what their position is on; abortion, gay marriage and the like, all they want.

 

[TheBarrd]

Considering how much opposition there is to Christian morals and ethics, to give up our right to free speech in exchange for and exemption for a tax that we already are exempt from to begin with, strikes me as being kind of stupid.

 

[bhsmte]

Look up "Johnson Amendment".
One freedom the church gives up is the right to speak out either for or against any political candidate running for any office.

"Currently, the law prohibits political campaign activity by charities and churches by defining a 501(c)(3) organization as one "which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Charities,-Churches-and-Politics

This is called separation of church and state. Church's are not to get involved in politics.

Do you understand why it is this way?

 

[bhsmte]

Considering how much opposition there is to Christian morals and ethics, to give up our right to free speech in exchange for and exemption for a tax that we already are exempt from to begin with, strikes me as being kind of stupid.

Church's are free to teach the theology of their choosing, you are wrong.

They simply can not get political in their efforts, but that is why we have separation of church and state.

 

[Blank Stair]

What nation?

Try not to troll too obviously, OK? You and your other half Sepia!

 

[TheBarrd]

Has any of this stopped the Westboro Baptist church types from speaking out in public?

Church's can preach whatever theology they like and have always been able to do so. What they can not do, is get directly involved in politics and supporting certain politicians, etc and it has ALWAYS been this way for church's.

But, never fear, church's can speak out and preach what their position is on; abortion, gay marriage and the like, all they want.

"Because they avoid direct advocacy. Nonprofits are allowed to hold opinions on public issues, of course. Only overtly political activities (electioneering, for example) are forbidden. The easiest way to lose 501(c)(3) protection is to contribute to a candidate's campaign, whether through funding, stated support, or the contribution of office space. But the WBC has never made such mistakes. While Phelps and company do target specific political figures such as Hillary Clinton and Al Gore, they keep their criticisms ad hominem (Gore is apparently a "famous [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] pimp")."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/03/subsidized_hate.html

(google is your friend)

 

[TheBarrd]

Church's are free to teach the theology of their choosing, you are wrong.

They simply can not get political in their efforts, but that is why we have separation of church and state.

A church that is not under 501c3 control is free to "get political".
Separation of church and state is to keep the government out of the church's business...not the other way around.

EDIT:
That's why we have religious freedom

 

[bhsmte]

"Because they avoid direct advocacy. Nonprofits are allowed to hold opinions on public issues, of course. Only overtly political activities (electioneering, for example) are forbidden. The easiest way to lose 501(c)(3) protection is to contribute to a candidate's campaign, whether through funding, stated support, or the contribution of office space. But the WBC has never made such mistakes. While Phelps and company do target specific political figures such as Hillary Clinton and Al Gore, they keep their criticisms ad hominem (Gore is apparently a "famous [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] pimp")."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/03/subsidized_hate.html

(google is your friend)

Has something changed for church's?

It appears, you don't understand how separation of church and state works.