How to fix Islam?

Does islam need to reform?


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DogmaHunter

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So survival of the fittest is a satisfying basis of morality for you?

Lol, what?

Evolution is a theory of biology concerning the development and origins of species. It's not a guideline on how to setup a functional society.


Because that is all the 'morality' we are going to get from nature.

Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with morality or "society" and everything with how species develop over time.

Science tell us what is. It can never tell us what should be.

Science is much larger then just the natural sciences of biology, chemistry and physics.

There's also sociology, psychology, etc...
These are fields that can help us in understanding what suffering is all about etc.

Morality, in essence, is rather simple....

The best possible well-being for all sentient creatures = good.
The worst possible suffering for all sentient beings = bad.

If you can't agree to these 2 points, then I have no idea what you mean by "morality". Using those 2 points as premises, science can very much helps us decide what would constitute moral behaviour and what wouldn't.

And science more then once has given us the tools and knowledge required to change our opinions on certain subjects in terms of morality.

Animal abuse, for example.
 
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Jan 25, 2013
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Nope, it doesn't need reform because Islaam is perfect and it's from God. Maybe people of other religions are okay with doing away with what their religion says and adopting laws which contradict the religion, but that doesn't mean that the religion is reforming. It just means that those people are sinning, does it not?
 
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Audacious

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I would say that Islam, in the United States, anyway, is just fine as it is (I don't have experience with Islam in any other places, but here Muslims tend to be pretty moderate.).
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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Nope, it doesn't need reform because Islaam is perfect and it's from God. Maybe people of other religions are okay with doing away with what their religion says and adopting laws which contradict the religion, but that doesn't mean that the religion is reforming. It just means that those people are sinning, does it not?

I think the reform they are speaking of is the muslim world stomping out the violent radicals that smear your faith, or do you view these sects violent acts as appropriate to the faith? Don't you always speak against these guys as being heretics or apostates or something?
 
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Jan 25, 2013
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I think the reform they are speaking of is the muslim world stomping out the violent radicals that smear your faith, or do you view these sects violent acts as appropriate to the faith? Don't you always speak against these guys as being heretics or apostates or something?

Then the accurate title should be: how to make Muslims properly follow their religion.

I don't call them apostates. ISIS has been described as khawarij (i.e. those who exited the main body of Muslims) by various scholars but unless they commit acts of major disbelief/shirk, they're generally still considered Muslims. As for people fighting them, Muslims in Syria have been fighting ISIS since before anyone in the West intervened. Unfortunately, those Muslims are being attacked on multiple fronts (regime/allies (Hezbollah, IRG, Shi'a militias from various countries, Russia), US-led coalition, Kurds, and ISIS) and their main enemy, Assad, is committing genocide against the people they're trying to protect. Despite the odds, however, they're still standing.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Then the accurate title should be: how to make Muslims properly follow their religion.

And I bet that the way YOU happen to follow your religion, is the "proper way" to do it, right?

Are you aware that groups like ISIS, for example, says the exact same thing? That they properly follow their religion and that you don't?

Just saying... it works both ways.
 
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smaneck

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Lol, what?

Evolution is a theory of biology concerning the development and origins of species. It's not a guideline on how to setup a functional society.

That is precisely my point. The Enlightenment believed that you could use natural law to determine morality. What we call Social Darwinism was the logical outcome of that mindset.
 
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And I bet that the way YOU happen to follow your religion, is the "proper way" to do it, right?

I'm a sinful Muslim but I do know that the proper way to follow my religion is how Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us to follow it.

Are you aware that groups like ISIS, for example, says the exact same thing? That they properly follow their religion and that you don't?

Anyone can make claims. The measuring stick is how closely their words and actions match that which is derived from the Qur'aan, sunnah, and the consensus of the scholars. ISIS violated/goes contrary to many Islaamic rulings which is not surprising considering that they can't offer up a single credible scholar with proper credentials.
 
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seashale76

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And I bet that the way YOU happen to follow your religion, is the "proper way" to do it, right?

Are you aware that groups like ISIS, for example, says the exact same thing? That they properly follow their religion and that you don't?

Just saying... it works both ways.
You may not be aware, but No True Scotsman is only supposed to apply to Christianity around here. Islam is given a pass. It's a curious double standard I've noticed. You may want to tread carefully. I received a warning a while back for 'flaming Islam' (not a person, but the religion itself, and I did so in the context of calling the acts of ISIS evil).
 
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Sophrosyne

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There is no fix to Islam other than editing the Koran itself and removing parts of it that cause all the problems to the point of ignoring a lot of their "holy book". Those who are "moderate" essentially reject parts of the Koran itself in order to do so or perhaps they are just putting up a facade until they are the majority secretly wanting sharia law to rein in on everyone.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Religion is a scapegoat. Poverty and the actions of powerful nations grappling for power will always be the root causes.
I agree in part.... but a religion that encourages poverty and actions by providing information about how to govern and lead people through its writings tempts those who are in power to feel justified by doing what they want to.
 
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JoeP222w

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That couldn't hurt.

The other would be following what Jesus and Paul said here :......

Matthew 5:
43 "Ye hear that was declared 'Thou shalt be loving thy neighbour, and shall be hating thy enemy'
44 I am saying yet unto ye, be loving thine enemies!, be blessing them! that are cursing thee,
be doing good to them that are hating thee, and be praying over those persecuting thee.

Romans 12:20
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink:
for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
[Prove 25:22]



..........................................................................



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I don't disagree with your Bible quotes at all. The greatest way to love Muslims is the proclaim the truth of Jesus Christ to them through His gospel, and warn them of the danger that they are in by following their idolatrous religion. If you love someone, you will warn them of the righteous wrath of God that is coming against them if they do not repent and trust in Christ Jesus.
 
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JoeP222w

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Gee, just a little while ago some Christian put up a video that showed Turks saying the same thing about Christians. It was meant as an expose. Looks to me like you have a lot in common. Here is what Abdu'l-Baha had to say:


“Throughout past centuries each system of religious belief has boasted of its own superiority and excellence, abasing and scorning the validity of all others. Each has proclaimed its own belief as the light and all others as darkness. Religionists have considered the world of humanity as two trees: one divine and merciful, the other satanic; they themselves the branches, leaves and fruit of the divine tree and all others who differ from them in belief the product of the tree which is satanic. Therefore, sedition and warfare, bloodshed and strife have been continuous among them. The greatest cause of human alienation has been religion because each party has considered the belief of the other as anathema and deprived of the mercy of God.”

He went on to say:

"God is equally compassionate and kind to all the leaves, branches and fruit of this tree. Therefore, there is no satanic tree whatever-- Satan being a product of human minds and of instinctive human tendencies toward error. God alone is Creator, and all are creatures of His might. Therefore, we must love mankind as His creatures, realizing that all are growing upon the tree of His mercy, servants of His omnipotent will and manifestations of His good pleasure. Even though we find a defective branch or leaf upon this tree of humanity or an imperfect blossom, it, nevertheless, belongs to this tree and not to another. Therefore, it is our duty to protect and cultivate this tree until it reaches perfection. If we examine its fruit and find it imperfect, we must strive to make it perfect. There are souls in the human world who are ignorant; we must make them knowing. Some growing upon the tree are weak and ailing; we must assist them toward health and recovery. If they are as infants in development,
we must minister to them until they attain maturity. We should never detest and shun them as objectionable and unworthy. We must treat them with honor, respect and kindness; for God has created them and not Satan. They are not manifestations of the wrath of God but evidences of His divine favor. God, the Creator, has endowed them with physical, mental and spiritual qualities that they may seek to know and do His will; therefore, they are not objects of His wrath and condemnation. In brief, all humanity must be looked upon with love, kindness and respect; for what we behold in them are none other than the signs and traces of God Himself.”

I don't proclaim religion friend. By the grace of God, I proclaim Jesus Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus did not say "religion". He said "me", meaning no one comes to Heaven, except through Jesus Christ. All of humanity is not on the path to God when they deny the truth of Jesus Christ. Religion is not the way to God at all, because religion is an attempt to bribe God. But God is holy, perfect and righteous and He will not be bribed by "good" works.
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"Satan being a product of human minds and of instinctive human tendencies toward error."

Satan's greatest deception is to get people to believe he does not exist.
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We are not all God's children. Those who reject the truth of Jesus Christ are of their father, the devil, as Jesus said. That is also why you must be adopted by God through His grace in Jesus Christ alone, by faith alone.

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"God, the Creator, has endowed them with physical, mental and spiritual qualities that they may seek to know and do His will; therefore, they are not objects of His wrath and condemnation."

That is not what God says.

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (2) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— (3) among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

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"In brief, all humanity must be looked upon with love, kindness and respect"

I don't disagree. But the greatest love you can show someone is to tell them of Jesus Christ and how He can redeem them from the depravity of their sin, and warn them of the coming righteous and holy wrath of God coming against rebel sinners.
 
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TLK Valentine

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. Religion is not the way to God at all, because religion is an attempt to bribe God. But God is holy, perfect and righteous and He will not be bribed by "good" works.

How about prayer?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I don't disagree with your Bible quotes at all. The greatest way to love Muslims is the proclaim the truth of Jesus Christ to them through His gospel, and warn them of the danger that they are in by following their idolatrous religion.
If you love someone, you will warn them of the righteous wrath of God that is coming against them if they do not repent and trust in Christ Jesus.
They already believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, just in a different way.....They also believe Jesus was born of a virgin, which is a concept the religion of Judaism cannot grasp.

What about the non-Christian unbelieving Jews?
Islam is actually closer to Christianity than is Judaism, but Judaism may be slightly more peaceful, [depending on whom you ask] IMHO.....

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/...lims-and-christians-we-should-celebrate/37728

If there were a world rivalry of religions, few would hesitate to point to Islam versus Christianity. These religions, the two largest in the world, have a long history of locking swords — whether on the battlefield, through proselytizing, or during heated debates.

What tends to get buried under the dust, though, are some remarkable bonds shared by the two religions. Here are five of them that I wish we called more attention to:


.
 

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