How should we then live concerning gays?

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"blacks to be considered 5/5ths of a person"

Blacks are the same as gays? I'm pretty certain that's gotta be offensive to blacks. Being black isn't a sin, but gay behavior is. Why would you lump blacks in with gays? Please explain yourself?

And if your going to go to bat for the gay team, why not support burglars? How about those who commit violent robbery? Why draw the line at gays when you could support murderers? What about other sex offenders? Why don't you support them? Equal rights for any sinner? Why do you love gays more than other sinners? Why advocate for special laws for gays, but not for the rest of these sinners? Oh, you say gays aren't hurting anyone else?

Then what about inappropriate behavior with animals? They aren't hurting anyone else. Surely you support inappropriate behavior with animals. You must want an equal rights amendment for practitioners of inappropriate behavior with animals? What about incest between consenting adults? If your standard is any sin is OK as long as it nobody is getting hurt, then you must be a big supporter of incest? Why aren't you proposing an incest marriage law?

Draw us a line in the sand? What is the principle you base your selective support for special rights for sinners? We're all waiting to hear your blueprint for a better society? How your set of principles are so much better than God's? Tell us how much smarter you are?

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Jase

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One simply can't read the bible and come away saying God approves of gay behavior. The logical conclusion is that gay supporters haven't read the bible beyond a few short quotes? They seem to be able to read, but maybe the bible burns their eyes?
Or the logical conclusion is anti-gays have no clue what the Bible actually means because they put their faith in a Conservative publishers modern day English translation and assume God approves their interpretation.
 
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Jase

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some of you will be getting a very very terrible shock when you meet your maker one day. I'm sure Jesus will be very pleased you campaigned for homosexuals to get married from those nasty christian fundies.

I'm quite certain he will, seeing as Jesus said not a thing about gays, but he criticized his version of Fundies on a daily basis, and chastised them for mistreating the outcasts of society.
 
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Jase

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Blacks are the same as gays? I'm pretty certain that's gotta be offensive to blacks. Being black isn't a sin, but gay behavior is. Why would you lump blacks in with gays? Please explain yourself?
Being Black was viewed as a sin by many Christian groups. The whole Curse of Ham/Cain, separating the races thing. And nothing in the Bible says anything about "gay behavior" unless it's heterosexuals engaging in Pagan worship practices. Being gay also isn't about "behavior". A celibate gay is still gay. A gay married to the opposite sex is still gay.

The rest of your post is not even worth giving the time of day. Anyone who compares adult, consensual same-sex relationships to felonies or sexual relations with things that can't consent has already lost the argument.
 
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Still waiting for an answer to why you libs are exalting gay behavior above other sins? Saying it's a felony A) has no biblical meaning and B) brings us to your argument to criminalize being black.

You suggest being black is a sin and that's how you justify comparing blacks to gays? That's your answer? I always thought you libs were transferring your closet racism onto conservatives, but I didn't realize it was this serious.

Either being black is a sin and you can justify comparing blacks and gays or it is not a sin and you can't. You don't get it both ways. So, which is it?

One can only assume you will conceal your obvious racism and say being black is not a sin. Which brings us back to the initial question: How do you justify comparing being black to gay behavior?

I say gay behavior, because if there really is such a thing as "being gay," and such a person manages to overcome his evil compulsions, then God probably gives him extra credit? One can only assume it's an extra burden that most don't worry about. So, I never admonish the gay (again, if there is such a thing), but I may admonish those who exalt or participate in gay behavior. I certainly speak out against special laws for gays. As i would oppose special rights or laws to stop discriminating against murderers. It goes without saying, society should always do it's best to discourage sin and definitely never exalt sin.

Gay behavior is a sin. Some say all sins are equal in the eyes of God (I'm not one of them, but many believe it). Wasn't gay behavior once illegal (and may still be in some states?)? Which brings us back to the incest question and your obvious dissonance. What about incest? What makes you draw the line at incest? Two consenting adults? The mere fact there's a law against it is going to stop your support for incest? What about the laws against gays? Doesn't that make it the crime you're suddenly so worried about?

You also seem so worried about things that can't consent? What about various vibrators or holes in (wood) walls? Those can't consent either? Wood could even be living, if that's where your well-considered and so much superior line is drawn? I really want to hear how your principles are so much better than those outlined by God in the bible? Tell us about how evolved you are compared to us dumb Christians?

We're all waiting for the black vs gay comparison answer? And for your superior philosophy on how we can throw out the bible and follow your liberal agenda? Tell us?

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sniperelite7

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Jase answered the whole black vs gay comparison. Being black was considered a sin back in the "good old holier days". You know, when you could burn witches, force indigenous people to believe that Jesus loved them, and the first thing missionaries did was pitch pagan babies into the ocean?

How about this?

5650340-M.jpg


All by the same Bible believing christians, but then some genius thought of that strange thing called critical thinking and we decided that tradition had no place in determining truth, and our understanding of scripture was updated.

Same thing here today; the scriptures concerning homosexuality have been thrown into dispute as it became(like blacks and women) an issue and all the fear mongering pharisees fall back on a foggy understanding of scripture and paranoia induced vomiting to support a theological position built on quicksand.
 
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01tj

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I don't think the Bible could be much clearer about homosexuality. I really can't see where some of you are coming up with this stuff stating the Bible was never clear about it. God made Adam (pretty obviously a man) and Eve (just as obvious that shes a woman) for each other. There are so many reasons why man and women work so well together but I look at it like this.

God made man then gave man women to keep man company. Being gay is like telling God his gift was not good enough and your going to take something completely different instead. Men and women are here to replenish the earth. Men and men can't do that, neither can women and women.
 
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sniperelite7

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Do some research, you'll be surprised at how words and context change.

But this thread is about how we should treat tEh gaYz. Bad enough that God tells us to love our enemies, but hey as long as we love them while we marginalize them, tell them God hates them, that they are abominations, that they shouldn't live a happy life, that they are damned to hell, that their worth as a person is solely based on sexual orientation alone, kick em out of the house, kick em out of the church, kick em out of the military, kick em out of the schools.....its cool :clap:
 
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Jase

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I don't think the Bible could be much clearer about homosexuality. I really can't see where some of you are coming up with this stuff stating the Bible was never clear about it.
How could the Bible be clear about something that wasn't even discovered until 1900 years after the Bible was written? That's like saying the Bible is clear on computer usage or airplanes. The Bible is not describing what we understand as homosexuality or gays. Heterosexuals engaging in public orgies in the pagan temples of the Caananite god Molech is not the definition of homosexuality no matter how much you guys want it to mean that.
 
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Jase answered the whole black vs gay comparison. Being black was considered a sin back in the "good old holier days"

Jase answered nothing. We don't live in the bad old days and being black is not a sin. How then do you justify comparing blacks to sinning gays? And why aren't blacks outraged?

It is not a valid answer to say "we liberals used to make the mistake of calling blackness a sin, so therefore we get a pass today." You do not. Your very argument accuses blacks of being sinners because of their skin color. It's offensive and morally wrong to its core, as is the rest of liberal philosophy.

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01tj

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How could the Bible be clear about something that wasn't even discovered until 1900 years after the Bible was written? That's like saying the Bible is clear on computer usage or airplanes. The Bible is not describing what we understand as homosexuality or gays. Heterosexuals engaging in public orgies in the pagan temples of the Caananite god Molech is not the definition of homosexuality no matter how much you guys want it to mean that.

Even if you don't believe the word homosexual actually meant homosexual it is still an unnatural act. I hate to mention the Adam and Steve phrase that is overused but it also makes sense. Romans 1:26-28 is pretty clear about that.

And again, whats the point. God made men and women so they could reproduce. The only reason for men to be with men or women with women is lust, because they feel they are attracted to the same sex. How can homosexuals further the kingdom of God without being able to reproduce.
 
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WinBySurrender

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How could the Bible be clear about something that wasn't even discovered until 1900 years after the Bible was written? That's like saying the Bible is clear on computer usage or airplanes. The Bible is not describing what we understand as homosexuality or gays. Heterosexuals engaging in public orgies in the pagan temples of the Caananite god Molech is not the definition of homosexuality no matter how much you guys want it to mean that.
On the contrary, no matter how much you want to deny God addressed homosexual behavior biblically, He did.

Homosexuality was not "discovered" until 1900 years after the Bible was written? Really? :doh:
 
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sniperelite7

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Jase answered nothing. We don't live in the bad old days and being black is not a sin. How then do you justify comparing blacks to sinning gays? And why aren't blacks outraged?

It is not a valid answer to say "we liberals used to make the mistake of calling blackness a sin, so therefore we get a pass today." You do not. Your very argument accuses blacks of being sinners because of their skin color. It's offensive and morally wrong to its core, as is the rest of liberal philosophy.

.

You keep using that word liberal, I don't think you have any idea what it means. :p

Your right! We don't live in the age old days where being black is a sin. Thats because the theology changed due to proper interpretation of scripture . We realized that it was a rape of scriptural context to use the Bible the way it was being used to jusitify prejudice.

Guess what? The bible is being used once again to justify prejudice, and; oh dear...the theology of the church is changing once again as critical interpretation of scripture begins to reveal the weak foundations of the idea that the biblical stance against homosexuality is as clear cut as you think it is.

I've no clue where your drawing the idea that liberal morals are saying being black is a sin, or whatever other gibberish your post is suggesting. Its called drawing a parallel; the raving fear of homosexuals and the misguided religious backlash against them stinks to high heaven of the same attitudes and abusive interpretations that the religious in the past used to justify their biases.

All i'm saying is this. Take the heart of Christ and embrace that strange concept called grace. The christians back then believed in an inerrant, inspired word of God- they where dead wrong. A hundred years later, same attitude; same problem. Christians need to meet new social issues in a productive and rational manner, because guess what? The church is human- gloriously human with human bias, prejudice, and irrationality; and can very well be wrong again. :pray:
 
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prodigal brother

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first a distinction must be made, is your gay neighbor a Christian, if not according to the bible you are to make no judgements concerning him, if he says he is, then your allowed to point out his error, but first make sure your life is in order, are you sexually immoral, do you touch, look at inappropriate content, lust over women on the street. if you do its best you keep your mouth shut, or you will be heaping up judgement against yourself
 
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prodigal brother

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Black is the 'curse of Cain' so I was informed at a young age. Imagine that, and to think that misinterpretation of a verse or two gave cause to Southern Baptist to use the 'curse of Cain' to support slavery, along with the 'curse of Ham'. There seems to be some cursing going on in the OT.


good thing we have a bible to discredit false teaching, I suppose if you didn't believe everything you were told and sought the truth from your own reading, you could of not been so easily led to believe a lie
 
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WinBySurrender

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Black is the 'curse of Cain' so I was informed at a young age. Imagine that, and to think that misinterpretation of a verse or two gave cause to Southern Baptist to use the 'curse of Cain' to support slavery, along with the 'curse of Ham'. There seems to be some cursing going on in the OT.
Are you referring to a remark on this thread? If so, you are the only one who has used the term. If you are referring to a long-ago abandoned teaching of the Southern Baptist Church (and by "long ago" I mean over 100 years ago), then I wonder why you would bother, other than perhaps to incense the Southern Baptists on the thread?
 
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Lovely Lane

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Are you referring to a remark on this thread? If so, you are the only one who has used the term. If you are referring to a long-ago abandoned teaching of the Southern Baptist Church (and by "long ago" I mean over 100 years ago), then I wonder why you would bother, other than perhaps to incense the Southern Baptists on the thread?
obviously, I'm proving the perversion of interpretation by eisegesis means to promote widespread social behavior.

This has been on-going in the Colonies/States since the first preacher washed ashore. And it continues onward, especially in the case of homosexuality.

We could take a stroll through American Christian history and see the perversions of Scripture teachings if you want, but the point is made clear in my example. Christians have different views on homosexuality and SSM. No matter what, it is not crystal clear in any cherry-picked verse one uses for support.

And to the Religious Right who are voting in support of an occultist, they should remain silent on the matter or their opinion should be considered null and void. For obviously, they do not have principled convictions, only selfish agenda's. (my own opinion and it's free)
 
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Lovely Lane

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good thing we have a bible to discredit false teaching, I suppose if you didn't believe everything you were told and sought the truth from your own reading, you could of not been so easily led to believe a lie
That was the teaching of the time. Look it up and be amazed, of all the perversions of Scripture used to sway public opinion/behavior. What do you think, that I just made up the phrase of 'curse of Cain' or the 'curse of Ham'?
 
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Jase

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Even if you don't believe the word homosexual actually meant homosexual it is still an unnatural act. I hate to mention the Adam and Steve phrase that is overused but it also makes sense. Romans 1:26-28 is pretty clear about that.
An unnatural act? Seeing as homosexuality is a universal phenomenon found in almost every animal species and is a required evolutionary mechanism for the survival of the species, it is impossible to declare it "unnatural". It's part of nature.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...spread-in-animals-according-to-new-study.html

However, in the latest study the authors claim the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

And why do you ignore the context of Romans 1? It specifically says it's referring to what we would call "heterosexuals" who are engaging in public sex rituals and worshipping Pagan gods. It also says in Romans 2, that you do the exact same thing and are not to condemn others for that reason. And yet, I've never seen an anti-gay person even make note of Romans 2.

Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Stop removing Romans 1 from context please.

And again, whats the point. God made men and women so they could reproduce.
Not everyone is meant to reproduce. If every human on earth reproduced, the human species would die off due to overpopulation. We are already beyond our ability to handle the astronomical population increase, without every human reproducing.

The only reason for men to be with men or women with women is lust, because they feel they are attracted to the same sex. How can homosexuals further the kingdom of God without being able to reproduce.
Because homosexuality is a biological control mechanism on populations. How can elderly or infertile couples further God's kingdom, since they can't reproduce? And since when is reproduction the only way one can further God's kingdom? Have you ever met a gay person? You do realize they have dreams, hopes, desires, feelings, etc. too right? You do realize gays are not all about sex right? Heterosexuals, are statistically more promiscuous than gays. And yet, anti-gays always reduce gay people down to nothing but a sex act.
 
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