How should we then live concerning gays?

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Lovely Lane

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You just suggested killing them and you question me?
lol, seems you read funny.

I have plenty of sins, but I'm not proud of them and I don't ask you to make laws to justify my sin. I don't parade my sins around begging God to condemn the rest of the nation along with me.
That is what you say and no doubt of how you feel. But your words are do not correctly express the teachings of Jesus.
The bible's pretty clear, as a nation we're not supposed to exalt sin and that's exactly what you're doing.
yeah, well, the bible says to kill adulterers and adulteresses don't it?
We happen to live in USA, where we have many of all walks of life here. Don't live in one of the 12 tribes of Israel, a confederation or united monarchy. So, why not change your tone to where you can reach those in need.
 
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Lovely Lane

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I told them to "knock it off." Is that so horrible? Am I a Neanderthal monster? Am I a dreaded homophobe?
I don't know you so how can I answer.

Keep pointing your bony finger at me. Keep false accusing me of saying the opposite of what I said. Those are exactly the tactics I'd expect from Satan.
Oh no, I'm not pointing a finger, I'm shaking my head for the shame of the tone and words you express.


Odd you didn't quote the poster or acknowledge to whom you are speaking. I'll assume it is me then and have no idea of the quote you say was pointing a bony finger at you, and falsely accusing you. :confused:
(please provide the quote so we can discuss)
 
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DesertScroll

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I don't worry about the sins you speak of for I'm a righteous man. Haven't you made it to that level yet?

If your righteous, your fruit isn't showing. It could be a baby tree though...

That is what you say and no doubt of how you feel. But your words are do not correctly express the teachings of Jesus.
Ironic :thumbsup:

yeah, well, the bible says to kill adulterers and adulteresses don't it?
We happen to live in USA, where we have many of all walks of life here. Don't live in one of the 12 tribes of Israel, a confederation or united monarchy. So, why not change your tone to where you can reach those in need.
The Bible says governments are to be avengers of those who practice evil (Rom 13:4). Avenging can have many forms, from execution to taxing. Upholding evil as rights is definately contrary to scripture.

Why are you teaching contrary to scripture.... again?

Odd you didn't quote the poster or acknowledge to whom you are speaking. I'll assume it is me then and have no idea of the quote you say was pointing a bony finger at you, and falsely accusing you. :confused:
(please provide the quote so we can discuss)

Besides what you replied to him (I know you can't help it, the fruit just appears):
Originally Posted by Lovely Lane
Oh, I get it, when Scripture is silent, just make something up by perverting a verse or two, right?
Plus, I have no idea why you didn't enjoy my linked article. It mentioned the bed of Sodom, plus, a Rabbi may know more about the OT than folks on this board. Or are you afraid of seeing in a different light.
After centuries of misinterpretations and misrepresentations from the pulpit, I tend to look for accurate information. And it appears that the old story of Sodom and Gomorrah has been twisted and mutilated to place blame on the homosexual.
As for implications from what is written in scripture, that isn't twisting. Jesus used it quite well (Matt 22:32). If what you are teaching contradicts what is written (whether it is spelled out exactly or not) you have contradicted scripture. And you must really hate Paul who used implications from scripture all the time (Example 1 Tim 2:12,13).


Homosexuality is a reflection Sodom and Gomorrah's sinfulness.... which includes much more than homosexuality. They fully embraced the self and the flesh... just as you are teaching on this very thread.

The desires of the flesh are not from God... but from the world (1 John 2:15,16). So far all of your teaching in this thread is embracing the world. By implication, you cannot be embracing the Father as the world's desires are not from Him.

Originally Posted by Lovely Lane
really? What about the blonde male being ashamed of being blonde. Got anything for that? Point is, stop feeling ashamed, that's nonsense.
"For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death." 2 Cor 7:10

One needs to be ashamed of one's actions in order to repent. There is no salvation without being ashamed of one's actions.

Why is your teaching the opposite of what the Bible teaches?

Originally Posted by Lovely Lane
so, homosexuals are people, people marry, then homosexuals should be able to marry.

I haven't seen any homosexuals today, would you settle for one anti-christ. ( have a mirror handy)^_^
As already pointed out, your logic here allows anything that a person does to be upheld.

Nice :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by Lovely Lane
That's just it zaac, I actually go where the truth leads me. Not having a little closed mind with anger issues.
Your "truth" doesn't lead to the Bible, let alone come from it like it should 'if' you are a Christian. I wonder why that is?
 
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Lovely Lane

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If your righteous, your fruit isn't showing. It could be a baby tree though...
thanks for the insult, I know you can do better, that barely caught my attention, skimmed right over it at first glance. lol.


no, it was literal.


The Bible says governments are to be avengers of those who practice evil (Rom 13:4). Avenging can have many forms, from execution to taxing. Upholding evil as rights is definately contrary to scripture.

Why are you teaching contrary to scripture.... again?
The bible says many things, some contradictions. People, such as yourself, enjoy the art of eisegesis, then scold or shame others for not accepting the perversion.



Besides what you replied to him (I know you can't help it, the fruit just appears):
oh boy, my lucky day, two lame insults in the same post. I must really bother you, and in that I accept that honor with great gratitude. Thank you, one for all. :)

(btw, my fruit is quite peachy, thank you for inquiring)
 
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Godcreatedsteve

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First of all, the fat glutton, adulterer and almost every other sinner, whether large sin or small, is embarrassed of the sin. they hide it, they are ashamed of it.

Are you kidding? How does a fat person hide that they are fat? They obviously cannot be that ashamed since they keep on stuffing their face. How is the greedy man ashamed of being greedy? He's proud of it - that's why the rich live in the most expensive homes and drive the most expensive cars - to make others ashamed of being poor. How are the vain and proud ashamed of being that way? How is the religious hypocrite ashamed of religious hypocrisy? They're proud of their religion. How is the man who divorces his wife to marry a younger trophy bride ashamed? He's proud of her. Your assumtion makes no sense.

Secondly, It's perfectly OK to stare at fat people, but gays are in a special category? We point and stare at sinners on shows like "Cops" and many other shows, but gays are off-limits to ridicule?

Are you campaigning for an amendment to make marriage between fat people illegal? How many fat people have been beaten up and killed for being fat? Are you demanding that the greedy rich give all their money to the poor, like Jesus did? Are you keeping out religious hypocrites? Of course not.

God ordered them killed and we can't rebuke their sin? Jesus admonished the adulterer, but we can't admonish the gay?
The Bible also says
“And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers … they shall be an abomination unto you.” (Lev 11:10) So why aren't you admonishing people who eat shellfish? It says “the woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man…all that do so are abomination unto the Lord.” (Deu 22:5) So why aren't you admonishing women who wear pants or a suit? The Mosaic Law says that if a bride is found not to be a virgin, she should be stoned to death in front of her father (De 22:20-21), and a rape victim must consent to marry her rapist (De 22:28-29) So why aren't you admonishing rape victims who don't marry their rapists and demanding that every bride who is not a virgin be put to death?.

You seem very selective in your admonishments.

Perhaps you should have understood that, Christ has become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Gal 5:4) Then you wouldn’t have made that mistake. As far as adultery, Jesus may have admonished them but the church sure doesn't. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, but every church I know of welcomes divorced people with open arms.

I'm tired of this limp-wristed Christianity. These people (the gays and gay supporters) are destroying
America's special relationship with God and it's time to call them out.


America doesn't have a 'special relationship' with God, and the fact that those calling themselves Christians are persecuting the most persecuted and treating the poor like garbage is proof.

They are sinning. They know it's wrong, yet they claim it's right. They want us to buy into their sin by passing a bunch of gay marriage laws. I say enough. I'm admonishing gays to knock it off.


They know it’s no more a sin to be created gay than it is for Christians to lust after the opposite sex. I'm admonishing religious hypocrites who hate and scapegoat others, to avoid looking at the log in their own eye, to knock it off.
 
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You make some fair points, but must admit we look a lot like Sodom right now and something needs to be done. If you have a better idea, we're all ears. And don't say, "we'll leave it up to God" or "we simply have no influence and must go with whatever modern thinking says." God didn't put us here to back evil to the hilt.
 
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DesertScroll

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thanks for the insult, I know you can do better, that barely caught my attention, skimmed right over it at first glance. lol.
Not an insult, but a correct observation. Examine yourself (2 Cor 13:5).

no, it was literal.
That is why it was ironic, as "your words are (sic) do not correctly express the teachings of Jesus" either....

The bible says many things, some contradictions. People, such as yourself, enjoy the art of eisegesis, then scold or shame others for not accepting the perversion.
Another reveal of the root. Even Jesus said the scriptures could not be broken (John 10:35) and told people they were wrong, because they did not know them (Matt 22:29) and that we were to live by every word (Matt 4:4).

Why do you not believe Jesus?

Why do you not accept that the scriptures are good for rebuking (2 Tim 3:16).

Why is your root different from those who wrote the NT?

oh boy, my lucky day, two lame insults in the same post. I must really bother you, and in that I accept that honor with great gratitude. Thank you, one for all. :)

(btw, my fruit is quite peachy, thank you for inquiring)

Again, the fruit reveals the tree. Since your fruit is different than the people who wrote the NT, then your tree must be as well...
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The Bible also says “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers … they shall be an abomination unto you.” (Lev 11:10) So why aren't you admonishing people who eat shellfish? It says “the woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man…all that do so are abomination unto the Lord.” (Deu 22:5) So why aren't you admonishing women who wear pants or a suit? The Mosaic Law says that if a bride is found not to be a virgin, she should be stoned to death in front of her father (De 22:20-21), and a rape victim must consent to marry her rapist (De 22:28-29) So why aren't you admonishing rape victims who don't marry their rapists and demanding that every bride who is not a virgin be put to death?.
There is this law called the natural law. Its been around since, creation.

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Rom 1:20

"For when the Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them," Rom 2:14,15

Which will judge them at the end (v16).

So why the pointing at ordinances? What do shellfish have to do with this law?

You seem very selective in your admonishments.

We all can be, depending upon the situation. But as pointed out to you before, that doesn't make the admonishment false. It just means the selective admonisher has a problem.

Perhaps you should have understood that, Christ has become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Gal 5:4) Then you wouldn’t have made that mistake. As far as adultery, Jesus may have admonished them but the church sure doesn't. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, but every church I know of welcomes divorced people with open arms.
Jesus did say everything about homosexuality.

Just as Ex 3:6 spoke about the resurrection based upon a verb tense (Matt 22:32) so to making them male and female (Gn 1:27 Matt 19:4). To get anything other than male and female their must be sin, corruption. In a perfect world there could not be homosexuality, it literally requires sin to exist.

Not to mention since nothing has been created without the Word, Jesus also testifies against homosexuality through His creation.

Jesus testifies against homosexuality both through God's word about creation and creation itself.

America doesn't have a 'special relationship' with God, and the fact that those calling themselves Christians are persecuting the most persecuted and treating the poor like garbage is proof.
Christians calling sin what it is are not persecuting. People claiming to be Christians and actually attacking others, do not have the fruit of a Christian.
Christians do take care of the poor. Not doing it through government is a different topic, if that is what you meant.

They know it’s no more a sin to be created gay than it is for Christians to lust after the opposite sex. I'm admonishing religious hypocrites who hate and scapegoat others, to avoid looking at the log in their own eye, to knock it off.
Once again if one is a Christian, their log is gone because they have the Spirit. There cannot be a log in the Spirit.

"[...]and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." Rom 8:8,9

Christians telling others to repent, follow Jesus and sin no more are not hypocrits. The inside of their cup is clean (Matt 23:25,26). They are preaching the Gospel. You have a problem with the Gospel.
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Biblical marriage consists of a feminine person and a masculine person coming into union for a lifetime commitment.

Actually its a man and woman (Matt 19:4,5).

The creation of man and woman is the reason why they come together to be joined (v 5).

Homosexuality is a perversion of that creation just as gay marriage is a perversion to marriage. You had a good quote earlier.... something must go wrong in order for homosexuality to exist.
 
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Jase

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You make some fair points, but must admit we look a lot like Sodom right now and something needs to be done. If you have a better idea, we're all ears. And don't say, "we'll leave it up to God" or "we simply have no influence and must go with whatever modern thinking says." God didn't put us here to back evil to the hilt.

We are being inhospitable to strangers? That was the sin of Sodom.
 
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Jase

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Actually its a man and woman (Matt 19:4,5).

The creation of man and woman is the reason why they come together to be joined (v 5).

Homosexuality is a perversion of that creation just as gay marriage is a perversion to marriage. You had a good quote earlier.... something must go wrong in order for homosexuality to exist.
Nothing went wrong. Homosexuality is required for the survival of the species. It has evolutionary benefits, which is why it's found in nearly every single animal species on Earth from Dolphins, monkeys, lions, and giraffes, to gut worms.

Might want to do some research on the Christian view of marriage.

anthropologist: When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite


For the Church to ignore the evidence in its own archives would be cowardly and deceptive. The evidence convincingly shows that what the modern church claims has always been its unchanging attitude towards homosexuality is, in fact, nothing of the sort.

It proves that for the last two millennia, in parish churches and cathedrals throughout Christendom, from Ireland to Istanbul and even in the heart of Rome itself, homosexual relationships were accepted as valid expressions of a God-given love and committment to another person, a love that could be celebrated, honored and blessed, through the Eucharist in the name of, and in the presence of, Jesus Christ.
 
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DesertScroll

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We are being inhospitable to strangers? That was the sin of Sodom.

Quite a bit more than that:

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it." Ezek 16:49,50

"[...] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." Jude 1:7

And not just doing, but proclaiming sins:

"The expression of their faces bears witness against them, and they display their sin like Sodom; they do not even conceal it. Woe to them! For they have brought evil upon themselves." Isa 3:9

Nothing went wrong. Homosexuality is required for the survival of the species. It has evolutionary benefits, which is why it's found in nearly every single animal species on Earth from Dolphins, monkeys, lions, and giraffes, to gut worms.

Might want to do some research on the Christian view of marriage.

anthropologist: When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite


For the Church to ignore the evidence in its own archives would be cowardly and deceptive. The evidence convincingly shows that what the modern church claims has always been its unchanging attitude towards homosexuality is, in fact, nothing of the sort.

It proves that for the last two millennia, in parish churches and cathedrals throughout Christendom, from Ireland to Istanbul and even in the heart of Rome itself, homosexual relationships were accepted as valid expressions of a God-given love and committment to another person, a love that could be celebrated, honored and blessed, through the Eucharist in the name of, and in the presence of, Jesus Christ.

Pointing to a corrupt creation (Rom 8:20,21) means you are pointing at corruption. You don't justify behavior by pointing to that which is corrupted.

And yes, something must go wrong to have those "benefits". In a perfect world where mistakes cannot happen, those "benefits" would never even appear. Homosexuality needs corruption, needs sin, even to exist. Lying can be a benefit when related to the world, but no lie is of the truth (1 John 2:21). Benefit to the world is not the same as coming from God. In fact the world and the Spirit are in opposition to each other (Gal 5:17). Your example is in opposition to God and His original creation as well as His truth in Jesus.

Nor does a Christian point to the behavior of so-called Christians to show what marriage is or should be. Not all people who call themselves Christaians are (Matt 7:21-23) and we can know them by their fruits (Matt 7:15,20). The people in your article (if true) would not posses fruit from a good tree as it would contradict scripture.

Which is why we point to scripture, we point to the words of Christ. Who declared that the reason for marriage was founded upon creation (Matt 19: 4,5).
 
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How does a fat person hide that they are fat? They obviously cannot be that ashamed since they keep on stuffing their face. How is the greedy man ashamed of being greedy? He's proud of it - that's why the rich live in the most expensive homes and drive the most expensive cars - to make others ashamed of being poor.

The question is not whether the sinner sins again, they may. We all will sin in one way or another. Rather, it's whether he recruits, tries to get others to buy into his sin by passing laws, shouts it from the hilltops, intimidates those opposing the sin through so-called "hate speech" laws, etc.

You can say the fat person isn't ashamed, because he eats again, but you would be wrong. Look at the billions spent to try and find effortless thinness? Look at the hundreds of infomercials for thinness. Fat people are ashamed. Ashamed by their own sin and (rightly) shamed by society that looks down on gluttony. It may not be sufficient to make them stop eating, but they aren't pushing to pass fatness laws, fat-hate-speech laws, etc. No, your example falls flat.

The greedy man is the same. He hides his greediness. After all, if he's caught being greedy, somebody will try to stop him. There aren't many examples of justifiably rich men in the bible, but there are a few. Solomon was rich. All the patriarchs had transgressions, as we all do, but being rich wasn't one of them. So, while Jesus wasn't a big fan of rich people, it's not necessarily a sin to be rich. Nevertheless, do you think it's coincidence many rich people live in gated communities? Believe me, rich people spend a lot of clock-cycles avoiding the appearance of "conspicuous consumption."

I suppose one aspect of your theory may have the tiniest bit of merit in that I've always advocated for my neighbor to be richer than myself. If everyone were ten-times richer, then I could be two-times richer without risking Jesus admonition. So by your theory, I'm advocating laws to make my neighbors richer and you might argue that's a sin? I'll accept that much. I'll risk that sin. As a liberal, you advocate for laws to make us all poorer and I'll continue to try to make us all richer. We'll see who's right at the pearly gates.

.
 
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Lovely Lane

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We are being inhospitable to strangers? That was the sin of Sodom.
Yes, I agree. And Jerusalem was worst off than the Sodom/Gomorrah pentapolis, exception being Zoar.

And in being inhospitable to strangers includes not only actions from the citizens but also from their government. It was a rough/evil region, strangers and sojourners where guaranteed severe mistreatment.

Moral of the story
Be Not Inhospitable To Strangers Lest They Be Angels In Disguise. Yeats (paraphrased of Heb 13:2)
 
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WinBySurrender

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You guys can self-congratulate all you want about "really understanding" the Genesis account of Sodom and Gomorrah, but the truth is the intent of homosexual rape and the everyday practice of sexual sin was the reason the two cities were destroyed. Claim it was any other reason you want. It won't change the truth. But feel free to try.
 
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One simply can't read the bible and come away saying God approves of gay behavior. The logical conclusion is that gay supporters haven't read the bible beyond a few short quotes? They seem to be able to read, but maybe the bible burns their eyes?

Satan seems to know scripture well enough to twist it to his purpose. Maybe gay supporter's have some sort of satanic meetings or newsletters where they agree on which twisted story to tell? If only they could get that newsletter message into the mainstream? Then they'd have power and influence?

.
 
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sniperelite7

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"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy."

-Ezekiel 16:49

Yeah, hard negative on that one.

Yes its true Respectthelect., everyone who doesn't believe as you do holds secret meetings. Actually, my latest meeting with the local chapter of gay liberal commies just finished up our plans at the local community college. For this upcoming week, I can see it in the headlines now.

The homosexualists are working with the athiests and darwinists in an attempt to infiltrate the American family unit and destroy it from within by turning the parents into lesbians and making the children believe that they are monkeys through the use of birthcontrol; which is essentially a communist plot to thin out the American population so that the muslims can easily invade America and install the chinese as our new overlords.

I know this.

Because the Bible told me.


Just you wait, we twisted scripture so we could get women to vote and blacks to be considered 5/5ths of a person, and we'll do the same for homosexuals. Then America will really be in trouble!!!! :pray:
 
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scotty81

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it's unfortunate people deny how much liberalism/secularism has invaded church ideology, just look at the amount of "christians" here defending homosexuality.

not even going to bother to debate with people already convinced they are right

some of you will be getting a very very terrible shock when you meet your maker one day. I'm sure Jesus will be very pleased you campaigned for homosexuals to get married from those nasty christian fundies.
 
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