You skirted and danced around the word study at hand and added more commentary and personal interaction.
Just trying to bring that unseen 'generation' into view, which your position has always seemed largely VOID of. It's very problematic to view spiritual matters strictly through the physical lens, and the 'generation' is certainly one of those topics.
As agreed upon the generation (Gennema; fruit and offspring of like kind) of vipers continues from the time of the sowing of Israel/Judah with the seed of men and beasts from the time of the Babylonian captivity and their development of the Talmud and the disbelief in the end of the old covenant and perpetuation of the race and religion and subsequently their necessary disbelief and rejection of the Messiah.
The association of that 'generation' with 'VIPERS' is beyond denial. So why try to take the REAL VIPER who was in the Garden out of the picture with
the view above?
It's much simpler to observe THE REAL VIPER and 'his work, his family and his generation' which does stretch from nearly the beginning of the text to near the end of same. We may see many physical POP UPS of that working (at least I do) but I have to keep in mind that what we are really viewing in physicality will not show me the 'real' viper as that working is not one that is PHYSICAL except via 'end results.'
There is a dark anti-spiritual/anti-Christ machine in operations behind the scenes of 'physicality.' This is part of the reason I detest views that focus on external physical depictions i.e. the Pope as the anti-Christ or the RCC as the (whatever) and any related FLESHLY observances of these matters when that working is much more prevalent but BEHIND THE PHYSICAL CURTAIN than merely focusing on a single individual, group or overt external working.
It's far more interesting than just that.
I personally believe that there has been an increase in the influence of that Gennema over the last 200 yrs through secular humanism (treating divine or natural humans as animals... I.E. the spirit of the beast) and socialism, but I don't view it as an 'end time' increase, just a progression of the seeds continuation.
I don't think any of us as believers can deny the OPENLY SPREADING amount of various works of the anti-Christ VIPERS into our physical world. That is blatantly obvious to any believer and progressively so. If my grandparents were alive today they would be internally STUNNED as to how much evil and decadence is openly worshipped in todays world. Yes, we are experiencing a rapid acceleration on many fronts. The classic exponential curve at nearly every juncture ALONG WITH a general 'dumbing down' of our spiritual senses of these matters.
In addition, their is a sense that all 'unregenerate' men/persons are of the natural human race and thus bear both the image and likeness of the Creator, but the also the 'seed' of mankind. Christ and John the baptist both said that Christ came not to condemn the world, but to save, for the world was already under condemnation... John 3:18; 36... .though still bearing the testimony of the Creator.(Romans 1)
Well, at that point I will depart from the commoners view of these matters. I have the understanding that it is GOD who elects which vessel to raise in every lump of mankind. He's still in charge. He could turn every vessel of HONOR to RISE IN THE LUMP in the twinkling of HIS EYE should HE elect to do so. I do not blame MANKIND for this working and do think that God is in GOOD CHARGE, no, make that PERFECT CHARGE of all the events of His creation. Blaming the creation will in my mind seem rather stupid in the light of Gods Power.
However, you miss the point of the discussion. You are using Genea in Matt 23 and 24 as if it were Gennema. which would be the word that would be used to mean "a continuation of a like kind of person...fruit, offspring or in this case a "generation' of religious and satanlcally inspired men.
And you seem to be missing the point as well. There is only ONE generation of devils...though they are EXPANDING i.e. depicted by the phrase 'children' of the devil. The CHIEF DEVIL is still here and his 'entire family' is in fact only of ONE generation who has not yet passed away. I could apply that same example to the cases of 'evil' generation (have not all generationS of mankind been immersed in that EVIL generation?) When you see KINGDOM rising against KINGDOM why was there not a PLURAL usage? The KINGDOM in view here will again be THE KINGDOM OF GOD rising against the KINGDOM of EVIL/SATAN and vice versa. Nation against nation...same deal.
We are simply not talking PHYSICAL NATIONS here.
The Olivet and Matt 23 uses the word Genea which means a group of persons living during a common lifespan.
So says YOU. You do understand however that you have ZERO account for that 'generation' that you CANNOT SEE. That nation, that kingdom, that GENERATION of VIPERS. Your understanding of text is nearly and completely VOID of that which you cannot set before your eyes and lay hands on, yet THAT WORLD and it's INHABITANTS were OPENLY REVEALED by Christ and shown to be WITH and WITHIN mankind. You, in short do not ACCOUNT for open facts of that world and it's inhabitants and in fact ONLY LOOK AT PHYSICAL MEN when there is obviously a WHOLE LOT MORE going on that can't be seen with that EVIL GENERATION.
Here is a simple example.
We know that God in Christ openly forgave those who 'pierced' Him PHYSICALLY on the cross.
But that was not all that was going on IN THOSE MEN and Jesus knew it. By the time we get to REVELATION those men have obviously long since turned into DUST BODIES...but LOOK who is going to SEE HIM when Jesus returns:
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds;
and every eye shall see him,
and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Those DEVILS who PIERCED HIM were in those men on that day Christ was PHYSICALLY KILLED and they are still standing here UNSEEN to this day and will STILL be standing here on the DAY of WRATH when Jesus comes to DIVIDE THEM AWAY from mankind and INTO the infamous LAKE OF FIRE...prepared for THEM, the devil and his messengers.
If you can't see in this way, it is also because of that same working in the flesh of men that WON'T ALLOW THAT SIGHT...and there is nothing I can do about it. To me it's an OPEN VIEWABLE FACT...yet some just don't 'get it.' And I don't blame them for NOT getting it. I know that working is effective to BLOCK THE SIGHT of them 'in men.'
Since Christ added the word "This" to the people who he was speaking to, it can only really mean that generation of men who were living at that time period.
And again that is simply YOUR IMPOSED VIEW which is completely VOID of the other parties. Your view of text does not take into account the UNSEEN EVIL that is with all mankind. It's that simple. I admit to THAT EVIL being with me, no different that it was WITH PAUL in Romans 7:21. Evil is present with me. Evil is present with you. But WE as Gods children are NOT THAT EVIL PRESENT with us.
This is supported by the reality that those people in that generation were being instructed about the destruction of the temple and the timing to escape Judea and to flee to the mountains east of the Jordan River.
IF you think Matthew 24's great tribulation came and went with the people of Israel in 70 AD you would be greatly mistaken. That great tribulation is for the DESTRUCTION OF ALL SIN, EVIL AND DEATH on that GREAT DAY OF WRATH...and that is going to come upon THAT singular generation of DEVILS without any doubt.
You look at a PHYSICAL ROOFTOP in PHYSICAL JUDEA. I have a much more complex understanding of the term 'Judea' in the spiritual sense. I won't bother getting into it other than to say your understanding of these matters in general revolves almost entirely around what you can see and touch but you will NEVER touch SPIRITUAL or ANTI-Christ matters in the physical sense and THAT really is what the document of text is MORE about.
It was at that time that the 'way which seems right unto men" of conditional compelled performance unto a "law" was also judged inferior in favor of the unconditional righteousness via faith in the Person and goodness of the Creator. (Dan 7)
And here again, because I see from Jesus Own Lips what happens when and where the WORD is sown and FACTOR THAT into my understandings I have dramatically DIFFERENT views of what goes on in these matters than just what I can see with my flesh eyes. The entirety of the LAW of the flesh was written against the working of LAWLESSNESS in the flesh, which same is OF THE DEVIL whom NONE of us can lay FLESH EYES on. That does not mean I need to be VOID OF VISION on these matters. God has shown me things in HIS WORDS that are not meant for flesh views nor will flesh VIEWERS ever understand them because God has not meant things to be understood that way. All viewers of the flesh will continue to argue about fleshly things when the simplicity of the entire Bible is entirely about SPIRITUAL PERFECTION doing battle with the ANTI-Christ spirits which battle transpires PRIMARILY in mankinds heart where it cannot be VIEWED.
I think that in Duet 32 the Hebrew word DOWR for generation can also have a meaning of those living in an age or lifetime,
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon rather than the word
towlĕdah, but it's not as clear as in the greek Genea/Gennema. In the Hebrew, the word "seed"
zera seems to have a similar meaning that "gennema" or Genos has in the NT.
The 'wicked' or 'evil' age has extended from the time God spoke HIS BLESSINGS upon Adam with Eve yet within him unto the END of that 'wicked' 'evil' generation/seed of DEVILS. This is the only understanding that makes sense to me. Believe me, I've tried nearly every other angle imaginable.
We cannot impose generic ENGLISH transliterations (in this case 'generation') on more specific Greek words. Just as in Spanish there is a difference between Saber and Conocer which both mean "to know" in English but have different Spanish meanings and applications, so also their is a difference in Genea and Genemma in Greek, both of which can be translated "generation" in English but which have different specific applications in Greek. You are using the wrong application for the word "Genea" that Christ used in the discourse and the message.
Your spin on the Greek is not going to change this matter. It can CERTAINLY apply to a SINGULAR generation
Usage in the KJV:
generation 37, time 2, age 2, nation 1
If you wish to continue discussion, please address the difference between Genea and Genemma and the use of Genea in the Olivet foretelling of the remaining disciples escape from Judea during that lifespan rather than the use of Genemma.
There is no use discussing this topic in a ONE VIEW manner when you have exactly ZERO account of things you cannot SEE but those same things ARE written of throughout the text. You only want to look at MAN as a physical being and you DEVOID them of their EVIL cohorts. That to me is the vision of a BLINDED person as it relates to TEXT. Text is far more interesting when the OTHER PARTIES to these matters are brought to the table of discussions BECAUSE they ARE a reality written of therein on nearly EVERY page of the book one way or another.
Your disagreement that all those things occurred in the first century is the topic of this thread.
I consider myself a partial preterist...as Matt. 24 is obvious a progression over the time span of MANKINDS GENERATIONS but also a time span SINGULAR of the EVIL generation. In fact I find it quite shortsighted to think that that GENERATION of the people of Israel was the EVIL WICKED generation when the wicked and evil have so openly and obviously been in perpetual continuation SINCE THEN and prior. It's just idiotic to think THEY were THAT generation.
All of mankind and the world have been immersed INTO a WICKED/EVIL generation.
As in the "this generation" thread in the Escatology section, your invited to consider Adam Clarke's itemization of how/when all those things occurred. Or if there are things which you feel were not fulfilled, feel free to name them. This goes beyond a simple poll, but as part of the discussion, LLOJ may permit it.
I have no interests in opinions of men who do not and CANNOT see the obvious when it's jumping up on every page. I doubt very much Adam Clarke (whom I've probably read some long time past) has ANY account whatsoever for the VIPERS in ISRAEL or if he does he will like most, just BLAME MEN only
in spite of the OBVIOUS and OPEN working of DEVILS in all these matters.
Overall the VOIDED VIEW of those parties is why MOST people aren't able to come to grips or agreements on any of these matters of prophecy, because they JUST look at the EXTERNAL values of them. They are in fact more INTERNAL matters that will continue to escape the views of those who try to capture them externally.
It is OF THE WICKED GENERATION that seeks AN EXTERNAL sign just so ya know. That may be working in you as well. I don't hold it against you as Gods child which I know you are.
enjoy!
squint
