How is Once Saved Always Saved not a license to sin? (moved)

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I think what unbelievers fail to realize also is that there is a difference between free will and free agency.
We are indeed free agents, in that we can choose to operate in our lives within the parameters the Father , the all knowing source that predestined all that exists, has set as part of his plan. However, it all conforms to his divine will.

That's where Arminianism fails. The separation of the sinner from God is thought to be something that the fallen, when scriptures say God does not hear sinners prayers, can overcome by their own will. By their own exercise of free agency.
That they, who know not God, can bridge that gulf by their own choice and thereby overcome the will, plan, reality, God has set forth for all eternity. Arminianism is egocentric and worldly. And that's where it fails to keep to the scriptures as written.

Well, first, I am not an unbeliever; And I do not hold to all views expressed by Arminians, either.

Second, if a believer has "free will" to choose Christ or to reject Christ, then it negates Calvinism. On some level, you are saying that the LORD is the One who is ultimately choosing you to go to Heaven or Hell (And there is nothing you can really do about it otherwise). The other alternative is that you have a "choice" or "free will" to choose God or not.

Third, I think Calvinists take certain passages too far; For example: While it is true that no man can come unto God (Christ) unless drawn by the Father (John 6:44) and while it is true that no man can repent unless repentance is granted to them by God (2 Timothy 2:25), it is just as equally true that:

#1. Christ draws ALL men unto Himself (John 12:32),
#2. Christ stands at the door of everyone's heart and knocks so as to come into them (Revelation 3:20),
#3. The Lord (Christ) is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9),
#4. The Lord (Christ) sets before us life and death and desires us to choose life (Deuteronomy 30:19).​

For we are elected (chosen) according to God's future foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:1-2) (Pay close attention to verse 2). In other words, God chose us based on Him knowing our future free will choice concerning Him before it happened in our physical concept of time. For God is outside of our linear version of time. For He is sovereign over His creation.

That's why God can say "Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated" before they were born because God knew both of their choices long before they were born.

God does not choose some to go to Heaven and some to go to Hell against their free will choice. For if that was the case, then the Judgment would be a farce or a scam. For men at the Judgments are being condemned for what THEY DID and not what God did. For if God was responsible for placing them into a position of "Condemnation" with no hope or choice on their part, then they cannot be blamed or condemned. It would be immoral of God to do something like that.

In other words, that would be sort of like a man creating a robot to kill a bunch of people and then put the robot on trial for killing them. Such an action is stupid because it was the man who created and programmed the robot to kill people who was responsible for it's evil actions.
 
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You are not to take from the word of God.

This is for the Christians here so that they are not misled by errant proclamations promoted by those motivated to foster destruction of God's word and truth. Linked so as to forestall someone saying, "Cite?", were it to be written freestyle.

THE SEVEN SACRAMENTS

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all"First Letter of Paul to Timothy 2:5

A Biblical Defense of Sola Scriptura!

Sola Scriptura is the position that you can trust Scripture and Scripture alone as your sole authority for your faith and life. That the revelation known as the Bible can be trusted as your final word of authority for knowing God, salvation, true love, right living, and truth. Now, while there may be other books, letters, or epistles mentioned in Scripture that we don't have currently, they are not a part of the cannon of God's Word today, for there is no other written texts or revelations that is needed besides the Bible for all spiritual matters. For the Bible is unlike any other book in human history. It is clearly a book that is divine in origin that is backed up by many evidences in Science and History.

Now, some might object and point out that you can't prove Sola Scriptura from Scripture because such a position wouldn't have existed until the close of Revelation because the apostles were still speaking and writing the Word of God. However, that is not Sola Scriptura, though. Sola Scriptura is putting your faith in the written Word of God and believing it is suffient for all matters concerning one's faith in God. But what about the spoken Word of God? Does that not conflict with Sola Scriptura? No. First, the spoken Word of God was confirmed by the written Word of God (Acts 17:11). Second, one truth (the Spoken Word of God) was not in conflict with another truth (i.e. the Written Word of God). They both breathed in harmony until one passed away. In other words, picture it in your mind that there are two branches or sticks. One branch represents the Spoken Word and the other branch represents the Written Word. Now imagine one of those branches starting to vanish away out of thin air until it is gone. Is the one branch that remains any different just because the other branch is gone? Yeah, but wouldn't Sola Scriptura only exist until after the close of Revelation with Revelation 22:18-19 because you can't add anymore words to God's Word? No. This is not an exclusive teaching within Scripture; For the Bible teaches elsewhere that we are not to add to the written Word of God, too (Deuteronomy 4:2) (Deuteronomy 12:32) (Proverbs 30:5-6).

Anyways, the purpose of this study is to provide passages to help the reader in possessing Scripture so that they can trust in one divinely inspired written revelation or book (i.e. the Bible) for all spiritual matters in regards to having love, faith, and salvation in Him.

Also, before we examine this study, it is important to note that there are 3 major Words spoken about within Scripture that are connected to one another. There is the:

(1) Living Word of God (Jesus),
(2) Spoken Word of God (Either from God or His people),
(3) Written Word of God (Scripture).

All three are perfect and will endure for forever.
All three are tied together and are always connected.

The Biblical Case for Sola Scriptura:

I. All Scripture is Profitable for Doctrine, Correction, Righteous Teaching.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

A. All Scripture is profitable:

(a) for doctrine, (because)
~ (1) Scripture is sufficient for eternal life (1 John 5:13).
(b) for correction (and)
(c) for instruction in righteousness,
(It is sufficient in righteous training because):
~ (1) Scripture brings about hope (faith). (Romans 15:4).
~ (2) Scripture can be hid within one's heart so as not to sin against God. (Psalm 119:11)

All Scripture is profitable so that the man of God:
(d) May be perfect.
(e) Completely furnished unto all good works.
~ (1) For speaking Scripture provides spiritual nutrition or life (Matthew 4:4)
~ (2) For Scripture brings about joy (1 John 1:4)
(In fact, one of the fruits of the Spirit is joy) (Galatians 5:22)
All Scripture is profitable so that the man of God may be perfect andcomplete unto all good works. For Scripture is profitable in (1) doctrine, (2)correction, and (3) training in righteousness. All three of these things are essential to a person's faith in God and will lead the man of God to beperfect and completeunto all good works. Not some good works. But allgood works. No oral Words of God alone were ever mentioned to do such a thing for us currently or during the time the "Written Word of God" came into being. No "Spoken Word of God" was ever mentioned to make the man of God perfect and complete unto all good works in addition to Scripture. This shows us that Scripture and Scripture alone is sufficient in and of itself because it will lead the man of God unto perfection and being fully furnished unto every good work.

For man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of his mouth that is from God. This is to live spiritually. For it is how one's faith even begins. So we gain faith and a life with God. We gain spiritual nutrients from speaking God's Word, whereby we can grow spiritually so as to conform to the image of Christ in being perfect and to allow Christ to do every good work within us. For you are what you eat. For the seed of the Word took root within your heart when you first believed and it grows within you to bring forth much fruit. However, how can you believe or grow if there is no "Written Word of God" which is nailed down in written form for all to agree?​

II. Do Not Add or Take Away or Go Beyond What is Written:


A. Do Not Add or Take Away From God's Word -

Revelation 22:18-19
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Before you say it, yes, I am aware that Revelation 22:18-19 is speaking in context of the book of Revelation. However, we have to think about this logically, though. If you can't add any words to the book of Revelation, then you can't add any words to the Bible, too. Why? Well, the book of Revelation is the end of the Bible. It is the close of the whole book known as the Bible. It is the end. This is why I believe Revelation 22:18-19 is prophetic in the fact that it has a secondary fulfillment of speaking about "this book" in reference to "Revelation" in being a part of the book known as the Bible. How so? Well, there are several passages that have a double fulfillment to them. Here is one them:

Hosea 11:1
"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt."

First Fulfillment (That was in the Past):
Reference to the exodus of the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt.

Secondary Fulfillment (That was in the Future):
Reference to the Love of God calling his Son back to the comparative safety in Egypt so that he might die for his people. Matthew 2:15 - "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son."

Also, in Revelation 2-3, Jesus gives His assessment of various churches. In these chapters, Jesus spoke of real churches that existed at the time when John written the book of Revelation, but also to the spiritual state of churches thru out time and today, too. For one of the churches is told to repent or they will go thru the tribulation. For obviously there has been Luke warm churches thru out history and today like the Laodician church.

Besides, there are hundreds of double fulfillment passages in the Bible. How so? Well, the "Typifications of Christ" in the Old Testament are essentially double fulfillment type passages (See this forum thread here to check them out). In fact, Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (John 5:39). In other words, the OT Scriptures are a double fulfilment. For the Old Testament Scriptures spoke of the events of it's time and they also spoke about Jesus Christ, too; For Jesus said so Himself.

Also, consider the prophecy in the book of Daniel which was to seal up vision and prophecy versus the prophecy of the book of Revelation which is not sealed.

~ Daniel's End Times prophecy speaks of the events in Revelation. These prophecies of the End Times (that were in a book, i.e. scroll) were to be sealed up and closed (Daniel 12:4) because they were a far way off because Jesus still needed to come to save His people from their sins.

Revelation 22:10 mentions the spirit of prophecy that the book is open.

~ Now, the book is open whereby the things within Revelation (That Daniel also talks about) is exposed so that it will be fulfilled in bringing in the End with Christ's return.

For the entire book of Revelation is about the End Times leading up to Christ's return.

For the end of Revelation closes with Jesus saying,

"Surely I come quickly." (Revelation 22:20).

This means that we should be looking to Jesus return and not some new Revelation.

Paul said if we or an angel from heaven preach to you another gospel, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8). It is strange that both the Mormon and the Muslim religion are founded on a revelation that comes from angels. Yet the Bible warns against this very thing.

In fact, Jesus Christ commanded that we as believers were to preach this gospel unto all the world (or all nations) until Christ's return.

Matthew 24:14
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

This is also what we see in Revelation. For this same gospel message was still going out to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people (That is still an ongoing process today).

Revelation 14:6
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

In other words, God knew that the book of Revelation was going to be a part of the Bible. For surely God does not want us accepting new revelations or additional written works to add to the Bible like with the book of Mormon, the Koran, the added oral traditions of the RCC (Roman Catholic Church), and or the added writings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. For it is not a coincidence that this warning in Revelation 22 is at the close of our Bibles. In other words, the new reader (Who is unaware that the Bible is made up of 66 books) would understand that you are not to add or subtract from the book (i.e. the Bible) that they were reading. For God obviously intended Scripture to be compiled into one book known as the Bible. For Christians today do regard the Bible as one book, for it is published as one book and it is not generally published into 66 individual books or a 66 book volume set. There are no 66 individual old manuscripts in their original form anymore; And God does not exist in the past abiding with these old manuscripts. These manuscripts are dead and gone. For they were written in a language that is dead. All these things are in the past. However, our God is not a God who just exists in the past. Our God is present and ever active with His people today. For our God is not the God of the dead but of the living. He works with His people who are alive with the written Revelation known as the Bible. Adding any new words to that revelation would be adding to God's Holy written Word as it currently exists with His people who live today.

B. Warning Against Altering God's Word is Confirmed in Old Testament:

Forbidding in altering God's Word in Revelation 22:18-19 can also be seen in Deuteronomy 4:2 and Deuteronomy 12:32 which says not to add or take away from the words of God's commands. This was the written Word. The Law. God did not want His words being changed or altered in any way by adding or taking away from His words. In fact, if somebody were to try and destroy God's Word, we see that God would protect or preserve His Word. We see an example of this in Jeremiah 36:22-32where king Jehoiakim burns the scroll in a fire (i.e. to eliminate God's Word) and then later God has Jeremiah re-create another roll that says the same thing. In other words, the written Word could not be destroyed by fire, just as the Living Word cannot be destroyed by fire. For the fourth who was in the fiery furnace with Daniel's friends was the Son of God (Daniel 3:25). For even when Moses had broken or shattered the tablets of stone that had the direct hand written Word of God (i.e. the Ten Commandments) on it (Exodus 32:19), the Lord our God had hand written them down on tablets of stone again (Exodus 34:1). For the Word of God cannot be broken (John 10:35). For Jesus said, "Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew 24:35). Meaning, that Christ's words would be memorialized by being written down where they would not pass away (or be deleted by men).

C. Do Not Go Above What is Written on how we think about men:

The Bible says we are not to go above that which is written (concerning our thoughts of men). Granted, this verse is not all inclusive to the fact that we are not to go above Scripture on other matters, but what this passage does is show us a pattern that Scripture and Scripture alone is our sole authority on the faith and spiritual matters. It confirms that we are not to add or take away from God's Word.

1 Corinthians 4:6
"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."
 
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III. Scripture Can Help us to Know the Certainty of Christ's Teachings.

Luke sets out an order of declaration amongst the ministers of the Word to write out the events in order to Theophilus so that he might know for certain of the truth (on Christ's teachings) which he had been instructed.

Luke 1:1-4
"Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed."

IV. Christ quotes Scripture as an authority:

In all Jesus' teachings He referred to the divine authority of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-18; Matthew 8:17;Matthew 12:40-42; Luke 4:18-21; Luke 10:25-28; Luke 15:29-31; Luke 17:32; Luke 24:25-45; John 5:39-47). He quoted the Old Testament 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. He quoted from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, and Malachi. He referred to the Old Testament as “The Scriptures,” “the word of God,” and “the wisdom of God.” Jesus defeated the devil by using Scripture. For three words, "It is written" was said 3 times by Jesus inMatthew 4:1-11. This is confirmed by Ephesians 6 with how the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God which is a part of putting on the amor of God so that one can stand against the wiles of the devil (Ephesians 6:11, 16). For the Living Word (Jesus) is like a two edged sword that divides asunder the soul and the spirit because He always speaks the words of God because He is God (Hebrews 4:12).

V. Spoken Word is confirmed by the Written Word. Acts 17:11

In Acts 17:11, we learn that the Bereans were more noble because they received the "Spoken Word of God" from Paul and Silas with an open mind but yet they searched the Scriptures (i.e. the Written Word of God) to see whether those things were so or not. So the "Spoken Word" is confirmed by the "Written Word." So the "Written Word" is a reliable authority that we can trust. For even Philip opened the heart of the Ethiopian's understanding from a reading in Isaiah (Thereby confirming the Written Word of God) (Acts 8:26-35). Jesus had opened the disciple's understanding on the Scriptures when He was with them (Luke 24:32); And Paul had told the Corinthians that their words that they speak in Christ (i.e. the Spoken Word of God) were not like as with many others who had corrupted the Word of God (i.e. the Written Word of God) (2 Corinthians 2:17).

VI. 1 Corinthians 14:37 - What Paul had written is the Lord's commandments.

Paul had written to the Corinthians about how if anyone thought of themselves as spiritual or a prophet, they were to know that what he had written unto them was the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). In other words, the "Written of God" that came from Paul was the Lord's Commandments; And by the authority of the Lord: Paul gave commands to the brethren in doing many things (1 Corinthians 7:10) (2 Thessalonians 3:4, 6, 12) (1 Timothy 4:11) (1 Timothy 6:11, 12, 13, 14).

VII. The spoken/written Word is standard by which Jesus will Judge All Men.

John 12:48 essentially says, Christ will judge us by His Word in the last day.
Christ's spoken words have been memorialized within the Holy Scriptures for us to have faith in them. His words within the Bible will judge us in the last day.

In fact, the unsaved dead will be judged by their works at the Great White Throne Judgment in this life by what is written in various books of Judgment (Revelation 20:12). This shows us that the written Word of God has power and authority to judge just as the books of Judgment have power and authority to judge a person's actions on the last day.

For all believers will be judged by the Law of Liberty (James 2:12). This is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and or the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2) or the royal Law of love under the New Testament (James 2:8) (Romans 13:8-10).

VIII. John's Gospel is sufficient alone for saving faith in Jesus Christ.

What is purpose of John's book or gospel?

John 20:30-31 says,
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

Did you catch that? It essentially says these things (Within the book of John) are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ and that we might have life (eternal life) through his name. In other words, a person can receive eternal life or salvation in Jesus Christ by reading the book of John. This is the "Written of God." In other words, this shows that the "Written Word of God" alone is sufficient to bring us to saving faith in God.
 
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Firstly, it is against the rules here to post full articles derived from other sources. Secondly, it is tantamount to plagiarism to do so and not link the source one copied so as to paste here.
And finally.
 
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Firstly, it is against the rules here to post full articles derived from other sources. Secondly, it is tantamount to plagiarism to do so and not link the source one copied so as to paste here.
And finally.

Is it against forum rules to post articles I had written elsewhere on another forum?

However, for your information, it is not plagiarism if "you" wrote the article, my friend. I originally wrote the article at TheologyOnline (but they deleted all their old archives). I then reposted the same article (I had written) over at ChristianChat; And I am now merely copying in pasting it here. For it is my written work. My user name "Jason0047" is the same at both forums (of which you could confirm it is my written work by asking the mods).
 
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Because if you commit unjust atrocities, you were never saved to begin with.
~Perseverance of the Saints~

What about King David? He committed horrible atrocities and yet was a man after God's own heart. Granted, I am not saying David would remain saved if he continued to do those horrible atrocities and did not repent of such evils. That is what I am getting at. No true believer will continue to do evil thinking they are saved while they do such evil. Such a thought is a contradiction in terms for anyone who is pure of heart and or who is born again by the Spirit.

Side Note:

Do you believe man has no "free will" in regards to making a choice in accepting or rejecting the LORD?
 
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What about King David? He committed horrible atrocities and yet was a man after God's own heart. Granted, I am not saying David would remain saved if he continued to do those horrible atrocities and did not repent of such evils. That is what I am getting at. No true believer will continue to do evil thinking they are saved while they do such evil. Such a thought is a contradiction in terms for anyone who is pure of heart and or who is born again by the Spirit.

Side Note:

Do you believe man has no "free will" in regards to making a choice in accepting or rejecting the LORD?

God also chastised David greatly, even having killed his son.
Before the imputed merits of the Crucifixion, forgiveness only came with reparation and sacrifice. But, God can also forgive with a covenant, which He made with Abraham, Moses, and David.

In the New Testament, it is said upon conversion to "go and sin no more" or "-list of sins-, you were these things but were cleansed and are no more".
The command of a Christian was to be born again and drop sin, and where that eternal transformation begins, that is where your eternal salvation was secured.
 
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God also chastised David greatly, even having killed his son.
Before the imputed merits of the Crucifixion, forgiveness only came with reparation and sacrifice. But, God can also forgive with a covenant, which He made with Abraham, Moses, and David.

In the New Testament, it is said upon conversion to "go and sin no more" or "-list of sins-, you were these things but were cleansed and are no more".
The command of a Christian was to be born again and drop sin, and where that eternal transformation begins, that is where your eternal salvation was secured.

Not sinning was also in view of the Old Covenant, too. For in the Psalms, David essentially says that he hides God's Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the LORD (Psalm 119:11).

Also, the new birth is not a new teaching of the New Testament. Hence, why Jesus said to Nicodemus that he should have known about what he was talking about in regards to being born again (Especially seeing he was a great teacher of the Law).

Circumcision of the Heart in the Old Testament.
(Which is obviously a spiritual renewal of one's heart):

Deuteronomy 10:16
"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."

Deuteronomy 30:6
"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

Jeremiah 4:4
"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings."

Ezekiel 44:9
"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."

Leviticus 26:41
"And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:."

Jeremiah 9:26

"Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart."

Having A New Heart in the Old Testament:


Ezekiel 11:19
"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh"

Ezekiel 18:31
"Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Ezekiel 36:26
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."

Circumcision of the Heart in the New Testament:


Acts 7:51
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

Spiritual Circumcision in the New Testament:


Philippians 3:3
"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

Romans 2:28-29
28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Colossians 2:11
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ
 
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Marvin Knox

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It doesn't seem to me that the Lord's threatening to take back His irrevocable gift if one doesn't keep up a high level of overcoming is a better way to prevent sinning than His just continuing to complete the good work He began in us would be.

But what do I know? All I have is the scriptures to go by:).
 
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It doesn't seem to me that the Lord's threatening to take back His irrevocable gift if one doesn't keep up a high level of overcoming is a better way to prevent sinning than His just continuing to complete the good work He began in us would be.

But what do I know? All I have is the scriptures to go by:).

Where does the Scriptures say that the free gift of grace is irrvocable? Does not even life teach us that free gifts can be lost, taken away, or destroyed if we ignore the responsibility in maintaining them? For example: Cannot a car be a free gift and yet taken away if one runs red lights, and or drives drunk all the time? Cannot a person you consider to be your soul mate be regarded as a free gift from God and yet you can still choose not to be with them if you refuse to make that commitment to marry them?

Is God a respecter of persons? What makes you different then say Adam and Eve? For by their sin, they were separated from God. Doesn't the OSAS version of grace that says you can sin and not die spiritually sound like the same lie that the devil was pushing upon Eve in the Garden? For surely Adam and Eve did not die physically the day they ate of the wrong tree. They died spiritually that day and they needed a coming Savior or Messiah.
 
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"Saved" means safe, and sinning is not safe.
The Bible says >

"And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." (Galatians 5:24)

Also, in Hebrews 12:6-11, it says "you illegitimate and not sons" if God is not correcting you; and the writer says what happens because of our Father succeeding in correcting us.

From Galatians 5:24 and Hebrews 12:6-11, then, I would say, no, you can not keep on sinning and spend eternity with Jesus.

Now, you have listed things "like lying, lusting, and hating".

Philippians 2:14-16 says,

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16)

So, in writing to Christians, Paul says we need to stop our "complaining and disputing", so that we can "become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation". There is no procrastination, here, to some next life, but we are told to do this, now . . . in this life > right "in the midst of" this evil world's "crooked and perverse generation". God commands this; so I would say God considers this to be a realistic expectation . . . since God in us is easily and breezily and beautifully able to change us to "become blameless and harmless" and "without fault". God's love has His own almighty power to cure our nature to become "as He is" "in this world" (please see 1 John 4:17).

He saves us so we are safe and at home with Him, in this love (Romans 5:5, Colossians 3:15). But, I personally understand, we always will need more correction and curing, while in this life.

Your list of "lying, lusting, and hating" has some of the more well-known sins; however, people can point at things like these, while not correcting their own sin problems which can be very destructive and deeply degrading.

"Complaining" is a sin which can work directly against relating intimately (1 Corinthians 6:17) and thankfully {Colossians 3:15, Ephesians 5:20) with God. God has executed people because of their complaining against how He provided for them > Numbers 21:4-6. And now we see how a number of people blaspheme God by complaining against and condemning His blessing of rain, and even in the public media ones call His blessing of rain "bad" weather. Certainly, God is not bad to provide us with rain which we so need for life on this planet.

And "disputing" > arguing > is destructive and degrading against how God would have us relating in His love >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (in James 1:19)

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

So, it can be easy to point at someone else's "lying, and lusting, and hating" which are more obvious sins; but we need, ourselves, to get our Father's correction of things like complaining and arguing . . . so we can get free from the evil spirit of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2) which has us disobeying God by arguing and complaining. Because Satan's spirit can keep us degraded so we do not find out how to love like the above scriptures say to love. The evil spirit of arguing and complaining is directly anti-God and anti-love; so we need to stop these things and learn how to love, with Jesus >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

No, pointing out sin is not arguing or complaining. Paul said do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Paul even told the Corinthian church to kick out that man who was committing fornication among them. So no. I do not see that the pointing out certain sins as complaining but I see as a Biblical way of showing what type of sins I am talking about (i.e. sins that lead unto spiritual death - See 1 John 5:16-18) so as to correct others.
 
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com7fy8

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No, pointing out sin is not arguing or complaining.
I don't think I said that pointing out sins is complaining. What I mean is make sure you point out your own sins, including any complaining and arguing which are sin, while you point out others.
 
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Trinity isn't in the preserved word of God either. But Christians use it as a relevant term to describe the triune nature of God none the less.


The Catholic Response

Beyond the obvious fact that there is nothing in the context of John's gospel to even remotely point to "water" as referring to "the word," we can point out immediately a point of agreement. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that Jesus’ words—unless one is born anew (or, again)—speak of man’s initial entrance into the body of Christ through God’s grace. Perhaps it would be helpful at this point to ask what the New Testament writers saw as the instrument whereby one first enters into Christ. This would be precisely what we are talking about when we speak of being “born again.”

No. Regardless of whether it is in John's gospel or not, in Ephesians 5:25-26: It clearly says Christ sanctifies the church with the washing of the water of the Word. So God's Word is likened to water. We can even see this in the book of Isaiah, too.

"As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:10-11).​

As for the word "rite": Well, it is a word that is associated more today with Catholicism and it's offshoot churches. In my experience I have not heard it mentioned amongst those churches that hold to Sola Scriptura and disregard church authority or teachings that are not shown in the Word of God. The word "Trinity" is just another name for "Godhead" in the Bible. So it is not a foreign word to Scripture. This is important to understand because believers are not to add anything to God's Word. For we are even told in Scripture not to go beyond what is written.
 
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I don't think I said that pointing out sins is complaining. What I mean is make sure you point out your own sins, including any complaining and arguing which are sin, while you point out others.

While it is true there is a difference between complaining and correcting sin, you do not know my heart or life to suggest that there are sins in my life that I need to correct. Unless I have shown forth bad fruit to give you an indication otherwise. Besides, where was I complaining?
 
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You are not to take from the word of God.

This is for the Christians here so that they are not misled by errant proclamations promoted by those motivated to foster destruction of God's word and truth. Linked so as to forestall someone saying, "Cite?", were it to be written freestyle.

THE SEVEN SACRAMENTS

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all"First Letter of Paul to Timothy 2:5
You are not to take from the word of God.

This is for the Christians here so that they are not misled by errant proclamations promoted by those motivated to foster destruction of God's word and truth. Linked so as to forestall someone saying, "Cite?", were it to be written freestyle.

THE SEVEN SACRAMENTS

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all"First Letter of Paul to Timothy 2:5

The word "sacrament" is associated more with Catholicism and it's offshoot churches like Lutheranism. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says ALL Scripture is profitable for what? So that the man of God is perfect unto every good work. Now, lets think about that for a second. If all Scripture is profitable for me to be PERFECT unto EVERY good work, then what do I need of these outside sacraments or church traditions for? The short answer is that I do not need them (At least according to the Word of God I do not need them). For the Word of God is profitable for me to be perfect unto every good work as a believer.
 
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While it is true there is a difference between complaining and correcting sin, you do not know my heart or life to suggest that there are sins in my life that I need to correct. Unless I have shown forth bad fruit to give you an indication otherwise. Besides, where was I complaining?
I'm going by the Bible. It says that all God's children are getting correction, I understand from Hebrews 12:6-11. So, from this I understand that you like anyone else have things which need God's correction.

And I am saying that if you ever complain in a wrong way, this would be sin. But you are right, that I do not know specifically how you need correction.

"But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

So, from this I understand that everyone who is a child of God is getting our Father's correction. The correction may not be for what shows outwardly as "fruit", but we have things in us which need correction. And I mean, in my other posts, here, that it is good to share with one another about how we are being deeply corrected, so we can benefit from each other's example, and gain correction ourselves, from how one another is being corrected.

And it is good to give our main attention to our own correction, and help one another with this >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)
 
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I'm going by the Bible. It says that all God's children are getting correction, I understand from Hebrews 12:6-11. So, from this I understand that you like anyone else have things which need God's correction.

And I am saying that if you ever complain in a wrong way, this would be sin. But you are right, that I do not know specifically how you need correction.

"But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

So, from this I understand that everyone who is a child of God is getting our Father's correction. The correction may not be for what shows outwardly as "fruit", but we have things in us which need correction. And I mean, in my other posts, here, that it is good to share with one another about how we are being deeply corrected, so we can benefit from each other's example, and gain correction ourselves, from how one another is being corrected.

And it is good to give our main attention to our own correction, and help one another with this >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

We are commanded by the LORD Jesus Christ Himself to be perfect as our Heaven Father is perfect. If we could never be perfect, then Jesus would be playing a cruel joke on us. The same would be true when Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery to... "sin no more." For they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1). For they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). Jesus told the Pharisees that he that sins is a slave to sin. Jesus did not say this to the Pharisees in a favorable way. So no. I do not agree with you that all believers will always need correction their entire lives. For what is the purpose of correction? What is it's ultimate goal? For believers to keep sinning again? No. It is to correct them so as to stop in their sin. For if a father were to correct their son in a wrong that they are doing, what does that mean to you? Does a father's child keep continuing to do that wrong and yet they are corrected? In other words, if a child stole things at school all the time, can a father correct their sons actions on this bad behavior? Would it involve a change in that child's life whereby they would not steal anymore? Or would correction involve them just continuing to steal (While the father just keeps reproving them verbally to stop doing it)?

As for your point on complaining: While it is true that we as believers are not to complain, I do not see where I had actually done that here or that I have implied that I have complained to God in any way within my life. So I do not see it as a relevant point of the topic at hand.
 
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Marvin Knox

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Where does the Scriptures say that the free gift of grace is irrvocable? Does not even life teach us that free gifts can be lost, taken away, or destroyed if we ignore the responsibility in maintaining them? For example: Cannot a car be a free gift and yet taken away if one runs red lights, and or drives drunk all the time? Cannot a person you consider to be your soul mate be regarded as a free gift from God and yet you can still choose not to be with them if you refuse to make that commitment to marry them?

Is God a respecter of persons? What makes you different then say Adam and Eve? For by their sin, they were separated from God. Doesn't the OSAS version of grace that says you can sin and not die spiritually sound like the same lie that the devil was pushing upon Eve in the Garden? For surely Adam and Eve did not die physically the day they ate of the wrong tree. They died spiritually that day and they needed a coming Savior or Messiah.
We aren't talking about examples of men taking back gifts from other men in this fallen world.

Life is fickle. The Word of God will last forever. Stick with the scriptures.

We are talking about what the Word of God says about gifts given from God to men in this fallen world.

You know full well where it tells us that salvation is a gift and you know full well where it tells us that the gifts of God are irrevocable. To pretend that you don't is disingenuous to say the very least.

I won't play games with you. Look it up yourself.

My tendency is to say things a little more bluntly and crudely than that. But I'm resisting the temptation to tell it like it is concerning your method of discussing doctrine with fellow believers.

God may well favor one sinful man over another in this world and it appears from scripture that He does. Any favor He gives one fallen man over another considering that they are, in their natural state, enemies of God is purely by grace - and He's full of grace.

As you well know - that passage about "respect" has to do with the fact that both Jews and gentiles are to both be presented the gospel by the Lord. One who writes as many articles as you do would know that. Don't play games with the scriptures. It's beneath your obvious talents.

The Word of God says nothing about Adam and Eve receiving any gifts from God. It most certainly says nothing about whether they were in the exact same state as believers are today after us having become new creatures in Christ. Don't assume and don't go beyond what is written.
 
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