How Is A Christian Lady Supposed to Dress?

emekrus

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First of all, do you really know what a Christian Wedding is??

The exchange of vows, rings, wedding cake, gowns, shower, entourage, etc, etc, is not a Christian Wedding, that's a Pagan Wedding which originated from the Ancient Roman Empire (NOT the Roman Catholic Church!) and possibly coming all the way back from ancient Babylon.

How does a woman become your wife then??? Through a pagan wedding?? Just by having sex with her?? Just by having a committed relationship with her??

Please let us know the details if you ever find it from the Bible! ;)

Well, that is very easy to answer. Have you read how Isaac got his wife? How Jacob got his wife? that's exactly the scriptural way for a woman to become your wife. Christian wedding is simply committing the marriage to God, through covenant in Jesus Name. I for one, I never saw anywhere in the Bible where ring was used as a token for wedding hence, I'll not wed with ring. I'll prefer to wed with exchange of Bible since the covenant is from the word of God. I'll do everything I can to avoid jewelries(Gold).
 
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Messy

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First of all, do you really know what a Christian Wedding is??

The exchange of vows, rings, wedding cake, gowns, shower, entourage, etc, etc, is not a Christian Wedding, that's a Pagan Wedding which originated from the Ancient Roman Empire (NOT the Roman Catholic Church!) and possibly coming all the way back from ancient Babylon.

How does a woman become your wife then??? Through a pagan wedding?? Just by having sex with her?? Just by having a committed relationship with her??

Please let us know the details if you ever find it from the Bible! ;)
A ketubah
Google on Jewish marriage, it was a legal document and even then they were not really married, that was after the public marriage
 
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Rajni

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Well, Chaela, I suggest you check up the meaning of 'modest' again in your dictionary.
Are we going by a dictionary, or by 1 Timothy 2:9-10?

At any rate, I'm interested in hearing what
AphroditeGoneAwry specifically found preposterous in
what I had said, since claims with no explanation
behind them don't carry much weight.

-
 
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Navari

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Worse of all, so many Christian leaders seem to be silent concerning this particular scripture. You know, we still see so many Christian sisters, dress so worldly in aberration to the above scripture. We still see sisters wear immodest attires around, even to the Church.

We still see Christian women adorn themselves with gold, pearl (Jewelries). Braid (Plait) their hair. Even wear costly arrays, yet no one seems to see anything wrong with it, except a few leaders that I know.

Lets look at the historical context of this scripture. At the time this scripture was written there were lots of temples in cities. Most of these temples have female leadership. A way to express that leadership was to dress up, and adorn your hair with pearls and gold. It was a way to declare leadership in the church.

So when women were dressing in this way and entering the early christian church they were basically declaring leadership in that space. This is inappropriate and pointed out in the verses following the one you posted.

1Timothy 2:8-12
8 I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.


At the time this verse was written having braids, pearls and gold in your hair was declaring leadership. It was basically saything the relationship you set for us in Genesis does not apply to me. that is why he follows up with a similar statement in:

1 Corintians 11
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just as though her head were shaved.
6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Women are not inferior to man but God has made our relationship to men quite clear. We are not to declare spiritual authority over men. God is to Jesus, as Jesus is to man, as man is to woman.

This relationship was set out in the very beginning before the fall. We are not being degraded by submitting to our husbands and the church, we are emulating the perfect relationship God gave us at creation.

Ask yourself, today if a woman braids her hair or wears jewelry is she declaring authority in the church? Is she disgracing herself before God, her husband or herself?

As far as modesty goes it is all over scripture to not act in a way that would draw your brothers and sisters into sin. As women we can not control how men think, but we can control how we influence their thoughts. If you are dressing with the intention to be provocative, with the intention of drawing a man into lust you are sinning. Dressing up for you husband does not fall under this. Modesty is also cultural. There are parts of the world where Ankles are sexy and Boobs are not. Know where you are going, act modestly in that culture, try not to offend. Do not dress to draw your brothers and sisters into sin.
 
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timewerx

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Well, that is very easy to answer. Have you read how Isaac got his wife? How Jacob got his wife? that's exactly the scriptural way for a woman to become your wife. Christian wedding is simply committing the marriage to God, through covenant in Jesus Name. I for one, I never saw anywhere in the Bible where ring was used as a token for wedding hence, I'll not wed with ring. I'll prefer to wed with exchange of Bible since the covenant is from the word of God. I'll do everything I can to avoid jewelries(Gold).


That is true. But it may still be simpler than you think. A covenant is not necessary, vows are evil - Matthew 5:33-37.

It is possible that the first ever person you had intimate relations with is already your husband or wife... Today's wedding traditions are mired with pagan traditions that we have lost knowledge of the only things which led to a life-long union between a man and a woman.

It's a dangerous hypothesis that many married people may in fact, living a life of adultery out of ignorance perhaps why divorces are so common!

Many people who are lawfully single by status, may already be married by the sheer **first** act of "fornication".
 
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timewerx

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Women are not inferior to man but God has made our relationship to men quite clear. We are not to declare spiritual authority over men. God is to Jesus, as Jesus is to man, as man is to woman.

This relationship was set out in the very beginning before the fall. We are not being degraded by submitting to our husbands and the church, we are emulating the perfect relationship God gave us at creation.

You just messed up with my brain. I don't think that's how it works.

Please read this:

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

If that messed up your brain, sorry, but that's how it is. Women, you don't have to submit to your husbands, because frankly, you are TERRIBLE at it! Let us be equals and not submitting to any gender, okay?

Could have Paul only said those things to appease the greatly misogynistic culture and society they had in his days so they don't attracted unwanted attention from the authorities and potentially, a huge angry mob???

Think about it. Quite many of Paul's teaching is really just about "how to fit in" and avoid too much unnecessary persecution that the Gospel is never preached.... But not really an absolute command.
 
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Navari

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Eph 5:22-23
22
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Colossians 3:18
18
Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. 21 Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

Gen 3:16
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

1 Corinthians 11:3
3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.


You just messed up with my brain. I don't think that's how it works.

Its pretty clear. There is a relationships that God laid out in the beginning. Its not about inferiority, or friendship. It is about communion and healthy worship. Jesus says may times that he submits to his Father. It is not a bad thing to submit. Submitting to authority is not negative or hurtful, especially if you spouse is loving you like Christ loves the church. There are 2 parts to the healthy relationship. Being loved and taken care of as completely as Christ has with the church. And the honor, respect and submission that goes along with that. That doesn't mean I am not listened to. It doesn't' mean I have no say in our home. But it does mean that when push comes to shove my husband will make the tough decisions and I will submit to that.

I don't believe any part of the Bible is there just because. To say that we shouldn't submit to our husbands or the church just because we are bad at it is a cop out, IMO. We are called to grow, not just give up because we are bad as serving.



 
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faroukfarouk

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Eph 5:22-23
22
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Colossians 3:18
18
Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. 21 Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

Gen 3:16
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

1 Corinthians 11:3
3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.




Its pretty clear. There is a relationships that God laid out in the beginning. Its not about inferiority, or friendship. It is about communion and healthy worship. Jesus says may times that he submits to his Father. It is not a bad thing to submit. Submitting to authority is not negative or hurtful, especially if you spouse is loving you like Christ loves the church. There are 2 parts to the healthy relationship. Being loved and taken care of as completely as Christ has with the church. And the honor, respect and submission that goes along with that. That doesn't mean I am not listened to. It doesn't' mean I have no say in our home. But it does mean that when push comes to shove my husband will make the tough decisions and I will submit to that.

I don't believe any part of the Bible is there just because. To say that we shouldn't submit to our husbands or the church just because we are bad at it is a cop out, IMO. We are called to grow, not just give up because we are bad as serving.


Navari:

I love Ephesians!

As an Epistle it's both deep and encouraging doctrinally, but also practical.

Blessings.
 
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Abcdefg017

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A modern Christian woman should dress in a way that she herself deems appropriate and no one else should have a say. Back when that scripture was written, a Christian woman had to dress the way men told her to dress because she was the property of men and had no say in anything she wanted to do. The passage is there to let other men know how to dress their property (wives and children) so that men would not become envious of other men's property which could result in stealing the said property and damaging them (having sex with them). Fortunately the context behind that passage is no longer relevant to modern day society. Women are now equals and can choose to dress how they want to dress. When women say 'no' men now have the obligation to respect that statement and not have sex with them no matter how we are dressed.
 
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emekrus

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A modern Christian woman should dress in a way that she herself deems appropriate and no one else should have a say. Back when that scripture was written, a Christian woman had to dress the way men told her to dress because she was the property of men and had no say in anything she wanted to do. The passage is there to let other men know how to dress their property (wives and children) so that men would not become envious of other men's property which could result in stealing the said property and damaging them (having sex with them). Fortunately the context behind that passage is no longer relevant to modern day society. Women are now equals and can choose to dress how they want to dress. When women say 'no' men now have the obligation to respect that statement and not have sex with them no matter how we are dressed.


This is another manifestation of the spirit of the last days- The spirit of Aholah and Aholibah. The spirit that makes men think they can modernize God and his word. To everyone that can afford to utter your kind of statements, I'm always like 'Oh dear Lord, bless their hearts, and open their spiritual eyes to the truth. Enable them have a place on the day of judgement. Both in the first resurrection and the white throne judgement'.
 
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Abcdefg017

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This is another manifestation of the spirit of the last days- The spirit of Aholah and Aholibah. The spirit that makes men think they can modernize God and his word. To everyone that can afford to utter your kind of statements, I'm always like 'Oh dear Lord, bless their hearts, and open their spiritual eyes to the truth. Enable them have a place on the day of judgement. Both in the first resurrection and the white throne judgement'.

I am not 'modernizing' God. What I am doing is letting people know that the context certain things were written in the old days cannot apply to today. I'm also an all or nothing kind of person. You cannot pick and choose which parts of the Bibke to follow and which parts not to. If ALL parts of the Bible can be taken to be relevant to today, slavery is morally acceptable, ears should not get pierced, pastors and priests shouldn't cut their hair, men spitting on the ground on the Sabbath is a sin, women should not talk at church, and children can get married off by the age of 5.
 
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Navari

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This is another manifestation of the spirit of the last days- The spirit of Aholah and Aholibah.

So I read Eze 23. The place where those 2 names appear. I don't see how her comments are even remotely related to that story. I have noticed how when given history and context to the scripture you posted, you are silent. I would love to hear you opinion on Braids and Jewelry. Has it changed? Do you still feel braids and jewelry are sinful? I thought this thread was not just about modesty but about presentation.
 
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timewerx

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Submitting to authority is not negative or hurtful, especially if you spouse is loving you like Christ loves the church. There are 2 parts to the healthy relationship. Being loved and taken care of as completely as Christ has with the church.

But we have John 15:15. Would you read that please. Does Jesus really want submission or is it ultimately friendship?

Did you ever think Apostle Paul had something else in mind? Paul had some degree of eroticism in his writings.

Either Paul is completely ignorant of what Jesus said in John 15:15 or Paul intended his gender teachings to enable the physical survival of the church, else it would have turned Christianity into the earliest feminist movement with deadly results to Christianity itself when status quo was greatly Patriarchal and treated women as 2nd class citizens.
 
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Navari

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But we have John 15:15. Would you read that please. Does Jesus really want submission or is it ultimately friendship?

Ok, lets look at the set of verses you have plucked that one out of.

John 15:9-17
9
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

Vs 13, Jesus points out his coming sacrifice.
Vs 14, He defines us as the people he will lay down his life to save.
Vs 15, He reminds us that he is not hiding the will of the Lord from us. We are not living blindly, the Lord calls us friend.
Vs 16, Commands us to share our knowledge and joy, and bear fruit in his name.
Vs, 17 Commands us to love each other again.

I would like to point out that I clearly stated women are not inferior or unequal to men. There is just an order of authority we are called to follow. Even in this set of verses Jesus states "I am following my Father's commands"
 
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timewerx

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Verse 17 This is my command: Love each other.

Again, that brings up my point. Love each other, not you love who and you submit to who....

Countries where women are discriminated to a great degree in positions of authority are some of the worst countries in the world in terms of quality of life. Like many countries in the Middle East and many third world countries.

You only need to open your eyes to see what's really going on instead of ascribing to fictional/fairy-tale interpretation of scriptures.
 
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Navari

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You seem to think that submission and love are exclusive. I didn't realize we were debating the chemical reactions related to testosterone levels. I never said being a man made you smarter than women. I didn't realize we were talking about civil rights in third world countries that are predominately non-christian. It seems you are making a lot of assumptions about my education. This thread is no longer on topic, it is time for me to bid you adieu.
 
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emekrus

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So I read Eze 23. The place where those 2 names appear. I don't see how her comments are even remotely related to that story. I have noticed how when given history and context to the scripture you posted, you are silent. I would love to hear you opinion on Braids and Jewelry. Has it changed? Do you still feel braids and jewelry are sinful? I thought this thread was not just about modesty but about presentation.

Well, you may not see what I see in that scripture, because what I saw, I didn't see with my physical eyes, but my eyes of faith. Then concerning my silence to histories, I don't do much of history, cos I don't think I can base my eternal salvation on hear-says. I can't ascertain the veracity of those histories, hence I can't give in to them. But on the other hand, I can ascertain the truth of the Bible by the help of the Holy Ghost (Cos He is the Author)...

The same thing also goes for me, concerning Bibles with commentaries. You know, people have their notions of what scriptures says. But as for me, I prefer to take the Bible exactly the way it is. I like to take it unadulteratedly, because I believe by so doing, it will reduce to zero level, the chances of my name being blotted out of the book of life (there is no second chance).

Well, with my point of view, I believe the answer to your last question is obvious. If the Bible says women should not braid their hair, not wear gold, and the rest, (and these injunctions are in the new testament not in the old testament- and from the Apostle Paul of all people), I believe any lady who wears them is an aberrant. No matter what ever reason they have to cover it up. And that includes 'Histories and commentaries'.

Cheers...

Emeke
 
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emekrus

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What about cheap fake bling bling? Can they wear that?
Lol we had a burglar once who tried to steal my mom's jewels, but he didn't take them because those were just 5 euro things.

Well, my dear, I'm not called to dictate people's life and destiny, as a matter of fact, the scriptures warns me not to. My job is to exhort, instruct and reprove (rebuke) from the scriptures. Then as for obedience, that is the onus of the hearer.
He/She can decide either to obey or not according to the conviction He/She has.

But its always my earnest prayer, that the Holy Spirit put the spirit of absolute obedience and faith in the heart of my hearers, for their own eternal good.

Then as for the answer to your question, I think Jewelry in any form is Jewelry. But like I said, let your conscience bear you witness in the Holy Ghost. Cos you're not obeying the scriptures to please men, but rather God.
 
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