How do you PRAY in TONGUES?

[briareos]

I did a full edit, reread and fairly consider.

 

[briareos]

Albion,

We are speaking of the possibility that tongues can be prayer. My statements are actually based on what Paul did say... not what he did not explain (which is what you are doing) so I conclude that you are the one lacking understanding and reason and I conclude that since Paul called it prayer, it is indeed prayer.

Exegesis no?

 

[Albion]

Albion,

You are missing what I am saying

Paul clearly spoke of praying in tongues, he called it prayer.

It matters not that that makes little sense to you

If you think that the Bible is supposed to be unintelligible, then I have to disagree. And the fact that Paul spoke of tongues and referred to prayer does not mean that we should have no idea what it means...or that the obvious meaning could not have been missed. But none of that are you willing to consider, so you aren't able to help out, that's all. It happens.

If I were to ask how a camel could pass through the eye of a needle, I suppose you'd say "It says so. Why doubt it?" when someone with more knowledge of scripture could explain that the eye of the needle did not refer to a sewing implement but actually it was a gate, meaning that the "obvious" meaning of the verse really was something else--and even more meaningful. When I have time, I'll ask the question of someone else, but I still appreciate your input.

It should also be considered that Paul did identify these actions as prayer and worship... that connotes that Paul felt it was possible to know whether or not you were praying or worshiping. What is not known is what it is that you are praying but that does not change what a prayer is.

How can that be? Praying is asking or petitioning with something in mind.

 

[christianoleamondragon]

I have read this chapter many times.

This verse does not say praying in tongues PRIVATELY , while the rest of this Passage in addition to Chapter 12 refers to speaking in Tongues CORPORATELY during a church service where interpretation is given .

Yes it is.

1 Cor 14:13-14
13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Further, Acts 2 shows that Tongues were given which were unfamiliar to some in attendence , yet were recognizable to others (foreign languages) which these Hearers spoke .

Yes, because in this passage this means foreign language.

Ergo, Tongues are for CORPORATE environments for the sake of the UNBeliever who may be in attendence , and, it is supposed to be a distinct foreign language which might be recognizable to some . And it is to be followed with an English interpretation (assuming the Corporate environment is filled with english speaking people) from ANother ....OR, by the Tongue Speaker himself because the Tongue Speaker is supposed to understand his own Tongue.

Here is a diligent treatise that a woman did concerning this topic :

"This is what I learned:
tounges means foreign language- look up the word for this gift in any language the Bible has been written in and look up that definition. you will find answers of "(foreign) language or dialect". Example is the original ancient Greek (glossolalia) which is 'to speak languages'. when someone down the road is said to speak a tounge, you know they speak a language or dialect unfamiliar to you.
So this means the churches who teach that tongues is also sounds of holy joy from the spirit such as chittering, laughing, crying, moaning, mooing, clucking or barking are incorrect.
tongues is plural- every reference to the gift in scripture is plural with only the exception of a specific person speaking a specific language. It is the ability to speak and/or understand foriegn languages.
So this means the churches who teach that tounges is a single language from heaven between God, angels and you, if you have the spirit, are incorrect.
there is only one kind of tounges gift- I never found any scriptural support for a tounges that was only for prayer and another that was for the congregation/public. All information from scripture points to the one ability of speaking foreign languages you previously didn't know.
So this means the churches who teach that there are different forms of tounges are incorrect.
tongues must be understood by all people around you and done in orderly fashion- this is something that Paul tried to pound into the heads of the Corinthian congregation. Everyone, including the speaker, must understand what was said either by already knowing that language or by a translator. Otherwise it was a waste of time and cannot be proven to be a genuine gift.
So this means the churches who practice mosh pit-like tongues extravaganzas or who never have an interpreted tongue message are in error.
tongues was for a sign to unbelievers and for edification of the church body- direct quotes from The Apostle Paul. Anyone who didnt believe Jesus was the real deal and that the church now belongs to ALL who believe would be proven wrong by the confirmation of this gift and that would in turn strengthen the church as a whole and add to it's ranks.
So this means the churches who teach that tongues is for a deeper personal connection to God is incorrect.
tongues may have passed away long ago-there are many compelling reasons to believe this to be true and i have acctually confirmed it for the gift of prophecy simply due to the biblical definition of a prophet. I personally haven't yet put a headstone on tongues, but i do say that if the genuine gift does still exist, it must be incredibly rare. I haven't experienced or heard of any credible accounts of the true gift being used combined that with the purpose and usefulness of such a gift is all but gone.
So this brings into question any church that teaches this gift is attainable, let alone mandatory for the church body.
When I did this study it was acctually hard to find a tongues supporter that was willing to talk about it. The one pastor I did find to talk to me gave his ideas of what it was all about and a few scriptures.. a couple of which had nothing to do with spiritual gifts or tongues. Even the Assembly of God main website stated that some of its core doctrine was not found in scripture, but was based on "assumptions and deductions from an apparent pattern found in the book of acts". it's like alot of people belived in it and had stories of experiences to tell me, but they couldnt tell me why or explain anything with any real satisfaction"

Why do you say that? Tongues are not just foreign languages..

1 Corinthians 13:1
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

How can be angels be a foreigner to us? Do you think we can understand the languages of angels?? That's why one should pray for interpretation..

1 Corinthians 12:10
10 and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

in this passage this is the Gift of Interpretation of tongues.

tongues must be understood by all people around you and done in orderly

1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

This passage says that not speak to people. How can people understand?? You see that's why there are gift of interpretation of Tongues.. And no one understands them. Meaning, NO ONE.. AS IN NO..

 

[christianoleamondragon]

How is it possible to pray if you don't have a clue what you are saying?

That's why it is called praying in tongues...

1 Corinthians 14:14
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

You should know regardless of whether it is in your own language of English, or, a different language . And if you dont, then you may very well be saying something which is unpleasing to God or even defaming God since Satan could easily manipulate this ; thats why is important to MAKE SURE you have the real gift of Tongues and that it is used in strict accordance to the Bible .

In fact, many of the Cults actually speak in a different language which no one understands including the SPeaker. The Bible demands that the SPeaker know what he is speaking if theres no other INterpreter in order for the Tongue to be genuine . This too depends on the honesty and integrity of the Tongue Speaker for he/she could be committing a deliberate fraud ,or, a satanic counterfiet unbeknowns to the Speaker as is the case today in many churches due to the pressure to have this gift (the 'haves' versus the 'have nots') .

1 Corinthians 12:3
3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

 

[briareos]

Albion

If you think that the Bible is supposed to be unintelligible, then I have to disagree. And the fact that Paul spoke of tongues and referred to prayer does not mean that we should have no idea what it means...or that the obvious meaning could not have been missed. But none of that are you willing to consider, so you aren't able to help out, that's all. It happens.

This subject is entirely too simple to warrant such strenuous silly efforts and ideas on your part.
Your methods being as convoluted as they are... do not make this discussion as complicated as you would like it to be. If I continue this discussion with you i'll likely receive another reprimand so...

Later gator.

 

[Albion]

How is it possible to pray if you don't have a clue what you are saying?

That's why it is called praying in tongues...

But how is it possible to call something prayer if prayer means petitioning for something and you don't know what you are asking for? Does that help?

 

[christianoleamondragon]

But how is it possible to call something prayer if prayer means petitioning for something and you don't know what you are asking for? Does that help?

This calls for FAITH in the SPIRIT.. As the Holy Spirit intercedes for you..

Romans 8:26-27
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

The Spirit of GOD is the one who will pray. And he will pray for you ACCORDING to the WILL OF GOD.. Isn't that GREAT? If it is under the WILL of GOD then GOD will say yes to everything the SPRIT prays.

Romans 8:26
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

When we don't know what to pray. The SPIRIT intercedes. But we cannot understand what the SPIRIT is SAYING. Unless you pray for INTERPRETATION..

1 Corinthians 14:13
13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

 

[Jupiter Drops]

Yes it is.

1 Cor 14:13-14
13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.




Yes, because in this passage this means foreign language.



Why do you say that? Tongues are not just foreign languages..

1 Corinthians 13:1
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

How can be angels be a foreigner to us? Do you think we can understand the languages of angels?? That's why one should pray for interpretation..

1 Corinthians 12:10
10 and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

in this passage this is the Gift of Interpretation of tongues.




1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

This passage says that not speak to people. How can people understand?? You see that's why there are gift of interpretation of Tongues.. And no one understands them. Meaning, NO ONE.. AS IN NO..

Tongues are just foreign languages.

Is there a heavenly language? What language will we speak in heaven?

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Not to go off topic and also not trying to sound corny, but have a serious question. Is tounges writeable? If its a language wouldn't that mean it has words, letters...etc? Like when we get to heaven and can possibly speak it, would we know how to write it down?

I never really thought about that before and now I am really fascinated about knowing a new language. Of course in heaven we speak a diffrent divine language right? Something like the angels speak? Its so hard for me to remember all this stuff lol

 

[briareos]

If we were to ever learn it for ourselves at some point... I don't see why not. But that's purely conjecture.

 

[Albion]

Not to go off topic and also not trying to sound corny, but have a serious question. Is tounges writeable? If its a language wouldn't that mean it has words, letters...etc? Like when we get to heaven and can possibly speak it, would we know how to write it down?

I never really thought about that before and now I am really fascinated about knowing a new language. Of course in heaven we speak a diffrent divine language right? Something like the angels speak? Its so hard for me to remember all this stuff lol

The angels have a language? Why would they? HOW could a spirit form sounds?

 

[christianoleamondragon]

The angels have a language? Why would they? HOW could a spirit form sounds?

Revelation 17:7


7 Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

1 Corinthians 13:1


13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[christianoleamondragon]

Not to go off topic and also not trying to sound corny, but have a serious question. Is tounges writeable? If its a language wouldn't that mean it has words, letters...etc? Like when we get to heaven and can possibly speak it, would we know how to write it down?

I never really thought about that before and now I am really fascinated about knowing a new language. Of course in heaven we speak a diffrent divine language right? Something like the angels speak? Its so hard for me to remember all this stuff lol

That's not corny.. Yes tongues are writeable but not easy to write.. there are tongues easy to write. But still, there are not..

 

[Albion]

Revelation 17:7


7 Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

That's when an angel has assumed an Earthly form. Not an answer for how angels relate in the spirit realm.

13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

That verse does not say that angels have voice boxes or tongues or a language. It is hypothetical, i.e. "Even if you were able to speak like an angel, but didn't have love...."

It's like saying, "If you were superman, you still couldn't get to your appointment on time." That does NOT say you are superman or can actually fly, you know.

 

[christianoleamondragon]

That verse does not say that angels have voice boxes or tongues or a language. It is hypothetical, i.e. "Even if you were able to speak like an angel, but didn't have love...."

It's like saying, "If you were superman, you still couldn't get to your appointment on time." That does NOT say you are superman or can actually fly, you know.

1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:4
4 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Romans 8:26
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.




If you'd experience the INTERCESSION of the HOLY SPIRIT. You cannot control your mouth or your language. It just flow into your mouth and speak. Then, hope You will KNOW.

 

[briareos]

Also several people from the old testament heard angels speak to them and stories of heaven and visions of heaven have spoken of the sounds angels make.

"Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth good will toward men"

 

[Albion]

Also several people from the old testament heard angels speak to them and stories of heaven and visions of heaven have spoken of the sounds angels make.

"Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth good will toward men"

You mean that these people HEARD in their OWN language, similar to what happened on Pentecost Sunday. It's not that there is an angelic language used among these spirits.

Several angels have also been SEEN, as recorded in scripture, but we all know (don't we?) that this is just the way that they appeared to men or women for the purpose of the occasion.

 

[StormHawk]

How do non-tongues speakers "pray in the Holy Spirit"?

If they understand what they say, isn't that the other type of prayer?

 

[briareos]

You mean that these people HEARD in their OWN language, similar to what happened on Pentecost Sunday. It's not that there is an angelic language used among these spirits.

Several angels have also been SEEN, as recorded in scripture, but we all know (don't we?) that this is just the way that they appeared to men or women for the purpose of the occasion.

Neither of those "ideas" "not points" determine that angels do not have voices or languages which in the last few posts was a point of discussion and the matter to which I was responding.

It is conjecture and folly to assume that these literate vocal beings who are quite capable of communicating do not have a normal form of communication of their own, especially since they have the capability to converse with a variety of people with a variety of languages.

Again.. the points are on what the bible actually said... not what it left unexplained.