How do you identify the false messiah and final antichrist?

[dfw69]

Niether are women

Good point... if one is gonna identify them .. Look for men not women

 

[dfw69]

I bet the poll will be many for ' against the law'

Yet both will use the law to their advantage

Voting pro -law is the right call

 

[SwordFall]

When people put away their petty prejudices of the Pope and hatred of Islam, and realize that the Antichrist will be a Jew, there will be more coherent perspectives on this subject.

But that will probably never happen, because I personally believe it is that right there which is going to hollow out a great opening for the Antichrist to appear.

The Antichrist may even be the Jews anticipated messiah. After all, who in this wide world would fit the bill better then him?

It's extraordinarily coincided- arising from the Jews, the false messiah speaks of God different from what we know, and just how Jesus is seen to be a hypostasis of God, he too will be seen eventually as something commensurate.
He will be divinized and loved, and then he will judge and condemn all who didn't believe in him.


I believe that is the truth. The Antichrist isn't whatever you want him to be, what your paranoia or convictions tell you. And by the same point, he's not going to not be someone just because you labor under some racial or social paranoia of a particular group, thinking it can't be (x) because they've had it rough or you feel you owe them something
He's going to be whoever he is going to be, in fact he's the master of deception. Marinate on it.

 

[dfw69]

When people put away their petty prejudices of the Pope and hatred of Islam, and realize that the Antichrist will be a Jew, there will be more coherent perspectives on this subject.

But that will probably never happen, because I personally believe it is that right there which is going to hollow out a great opening for the Antichrist to appear.

The Antichrist may even be the Jews anticipated messiah. After all, who in this wide world would fit the bill better then him?

It's extraordinarily coincided- arising from the Jews, the false messiah speaks of God different from what we know, and just how Jesus is seen to be a hypostasis of God, he too will be seen eventually as something commensurate.
He will be divinized and loved, and then he will judge and condemn all who didn't believe in him.


I believe that is the truth. The Antichrist isn't whatever you want him to be, what your paranoia or convictions tell you. And by the same point, he's not going to not be someone just because you labor under some racial or social paranoia of a particular group, thinking it can't be (x) because they've had it rough or you feel you owe them something
He's going to be whoever he is going to be, in fact he's the master of deception. Marinate on it.

The false messiah will definitely be a Jew IMO... And as a Jew he will uphold Talmud and Torah laws..please vote

 

[Gracelands]

Good point... if one is gonna identify them .. Look for men not women

thanks

 

[Bible2]

sicksince said in post 12:

The Office of the Papacy is the Antichrist as was testified to by all of the Reformers throughout history.

Note that the papacy has never fulfilled the detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, and Revelation 19:19-21. Nor has the papacy ever fulfilled other Antichrist scriptures (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9, Daniel 11:31,36, cf. Matthew 24:15).

Also, the Antichrist, during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Christ, whereas the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Son of God, whereas the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms that Christ is in the flesh, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whereas the Antichrist will say that he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that Lucifer (Satan) is evil, whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly-apostate pope), could at first pretend to wholly support Catholicism in its current form (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

 

[Bible2]

dfw69 said in post 13:

1 he is king of the northern 10 gentile kingdoms

Are you thinking of Daniel 7? If so, in that chapter the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). And the 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman Empire. The 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman Empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one confederation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman Empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist confederation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This confederation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist confederation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

dfw69 said in post 13:

4 his false prophet calls down fire

That's right.

And just as the Antichrist could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Daniel 11:36, so his False Prophet could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of Revelation 13:13, when he will miraculously call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone. He could do this as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:19-40. For example, he could first gather together all the most prominent leaders of the Christian community worldwide to the Champ de Mars (Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon), which is the large open space in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And he could then tell them during a ceremony televised and webcasted live worldwide to pray to YHWH to send fire down and destroy the Tower.

And when the Christian leaders pray and YHWH doesn't do anything (by his own choice), the False Prophet could then pray to Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:4) to send fire down and destroy the Tower. And Lucifer could do so (allowed to do so by YHWH), so that 1 Kings 18:38-40 will be turned on its head, so that news reporters could write (in their words) "Then the fire of Lucifer fell, and consumed the Eiffel Tower. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces. And they said, Lucifer is God, Lucifer is God. And the True Prophet said to them: 'Take these men of YHWH! Let not one of them escape!' And they took them. And the True Prophet brought them down to the river Seine, and slew them there" (as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:38-40).

But would YHWH really let something like this happen? Would he let Christians pray to him to send fire down from heaven but refuse to do so, while allowing Lucifer to send fire down at the beck of the False Prophet? Yes, YHWH could let this happen, as a test to Christians, to see if they love signs and wonders more than YHWH (cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-3). Believers must always remember that not all signs and wonders are from the true God, that Lucifer/Satan can also give people the power to perform them (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:9), in order to deceive people (Matthew 24:24-25, Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20).

The way not to be deceived is to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God (John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), no matter how amazing the miracles are of someone who teaches something that contradicts the Bible (Matthew 24:24; 1 Timothy 4:1). And the way to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God is not to continue in any unrepentant sin, for otherwise our conscience could become seared as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where we could no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, but after our own lusts heap to ourselves teachers who teach us fables which support us in our lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4), to where we could even become willing to depart from the faith itself, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1).

 

[Bible2]

Douggg said in post 15:

His religion has to be Judaism.

Note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Judaism in its past and current form, insofar as Judaism worships YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), whereas the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5). And Judaism rejects Lucifer/Satan as being evil (Zechariah 3:2, Isaiah 14:12), whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer/Satan (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). And Judaism forbids the worship of any images (Leviticus 26:1), whereas the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15).

Regarding the idea of the Antichrist being Jewish by blood, both his parents could be Arabs (if his mother wasn't impregnated by Satan). But from some long-ago ancestor, the Antichrist could also have some Jewish blood in him, from the tribe of Dan (Genesis 49:17), which could be the reason that the tribe of Dan isn't included in the 12 tribes of the 144,000 (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19).

The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named "Hakim". The Antichrist's last name could be "Hakim", and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ them as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

Douggg said in post 15:

The Jews believe that when the "real" messiah appears, Christianity will fade away. So the person in question cannot be claiming to be Jesus.

Note that "anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the first century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

And note that nothing requires that the Antichrist will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

 

[Interplanner]

But Doug is right in the historical sense, which is where this should start. it is not primarily about the future.

 

[man54]

For futurist only..

How will people know the future false messiah and final antichrist has come?

Will he observe the law or will he go against the law?

Will he claim to be Jesus or not?

For me ...the false messiah will uphold the law... He will lead all to observe Torah and Talmud laws....and create a false messianic era ....this is the falling away from the faith.... He is antichrist because he will oppose that Jesus fulfilled the law for us.... He will seek to put noachide laws upon Gentiles ... And ten gentile kingdoms will arise and submit to the false messiah from Israel ...

And the final antichrist will come and claim to be god. He will be identified when he sets up an idol in the future temple ...and cause great tribulation in Israel ... He and the future false prophet of Israel will seek to deceive the world


But what do you believe?

To help you out and totally get in trouble:

The Antichrist is Maddox Chivan Jolie-Pitt-> He will change his Surname into something that begins with an X or is X. DO NOT LET HIM MARK YOU WITH THE X(x marks the spot, get it)

And the false prophet is their jewish girl/boy Shiloh Jolie-Pitt

Do not follow them and you'll be fine.

Cheers

 

[Interplanner]

There is no such thing as a question for futurists only. All propositions have to be weighed by the full counsel of Scripture.

 

[man54]

There is no such thing as a question for futurists only. All propositions have to be weighed by the full counsel of Scripture.

I agree.

Also:

The Antichrist is Maddox Chivan Jolie-Pitt-> He will change his Surname into something that begins with an X or is X. DO NOT LET HIM MARK YOU WITH THE X(x marks the spot, get it)

And the false prophet is their jewish girl/boy Shiloh Jolie-Pitt

Do not follow them and you'll be fine.

Cheers

 

[bibletruth469]

For futurist only.. How will people know the future false messiah and final antichrist has come? Will he observe the law or will he go against the law? Will he claim to be Jesus or not? For me ...the false messiah will uphold the law... He will lead all to observe Torah and Talmud laws....and create a false messianic era ....this is the falling away from the faith.... He is antichrist because he will oppose that Jesus fulfilled the law for us.... He will seek to put noachide laws upon Gentiles ... And ten gentile kingdoms will arise and submit to the false messiah from Israel ... And the final antichrist will come and claim to be god. He will be identified when he sets up an idol in the future temple ...and cause great tribulation in Israel ... He and the future false prophet of Israel will seek to deceive the world But what do you believe?

In my opinion , true bible believing Christians will not know because we will not be on earth when the antichrist and false prophet are revealed . The rapture will happen at a time we expect not. Soon after, the Antiichrist will confirm a peace covenant with Israel and the many and the tribulation will start. Many will be deceived into believing that he is the messiah and the savior of the world. However, during the midpoint , he will require everyone to take his mark or they can't buy or sell. A choice will have to be made. Either take the mark and be lost forever, or most likely die or hide.

 

[Interplanner]

The "confirming of the covenant" is Christ and the new covenant in the 490 years of Dan 9.

There is no such thing as a question just for futurists. All the truth of the Bible is open to all rational questions.

 

[bibletruth469]

The "confirming of the covenant" is Christ and the new covenant in the 490 years of Dan 9. There is no such thing as a question just for futurists. All the truth of the Bible is open to all rational questions.

Yes, the antichrist will confirm a covenant for the last seven years of Daniels prophecy of the 70 weeks. 69 weeks have already transpired , the church age has started with Israel's disbelief in Jesus as the Messiah. It has begun with the giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and will soon end at the signing of the peace Covenant. There may be a small gap of time between the rapture of the church and the confirming the peace accord .Some people may think that the rapture starts the 7 year period , however it is the confirming the peace accord that officially starts the tribulation .

 

[Interplanner]

Nope, that's not Dan 9. Messiah's new covenant went into effect. The leader of the rebellion balked at that and opted for a messianic war against the ruler (Rome). All this happened in the 7th decade of the 1st century, concluding the 490 years. That is the ordinary reading of the material, even if the last week is unusual (which I agree; I just don't split it to the future).

I do this because the only plain language interp of the material is Mt 24A and that is all set in the 1st century Judea: the AofD, the end like a flood (see the imagery in 24B), the time of enormous distress.

Only when futurism got started did people try to "sequence" the rapture, and have quite a fit over something that gets mentioned twice and is far from clear compared to Jesus on the 1st century. Lk 21 doesn't even bother to speak about a distant future at all, which at least Mt 24B explains the delay of in harmony with 2 Pet 3.

 

[dfw69]

In my opinion , true bible believing Christians will not know because we will not be on earth when the antichrist and false prophet are revealed . The rapture will happen at a time we expect not. Soon after, the Antiichrist will confirm a peace covenant with Israel and the many and the tribulation will start. Many will be deceived into believing that he is the messiah and the savior of the world. However, during the midpoint , he will require everyone to take his mark or they can't buy or sell. A choice will have to be made. Either take the mark and be lost forever, or most likely die or hide.

I agree we won't know because of the rapture that takes place first..


But I don't believe the rapture happens before the revealing of the man of sin... I believe the rapture happens before a trial ... The trial being the rise of a false Jesus or false messiah who will rule in Israel

The man of sin comes after the false messiah trial

We won't know until we find out the truth in heaven when the rapture happens

 

[bibletruth469]

I agree we won't know because of the rapture that takes place first.. But I don't believe the rapture happens before the revealing of the man of sin... I believe the rapture happens before a trial ... The trial being the rise of a false Jesus or false messiah who will rule in Israel The man of sin comes after the false messiah trial We won't know until we find out the truth in heaven when the rapture happens

It sounds like you are saying there are 2 separate antichrists. I don't believe that scripture shows this. There is one man of sin( Antichrist ) and one false prophet. How do you get that the man of sin comes after the false messiah?

 

[Interplanner]

It is not a real question--the sequencing of the rapture. It is only mentioned a couple times, it was only mentioned in a period of confusion about the final day of the world. If it really mattered, it would be as clear as Mt 24A is about the catastrophe in Judea in the 6th decade.

 

[dfw69]

It sounds like you are saying there are 2 separate antichrists. I don't believe that scripture shows this. There is one man of sin( Antichrist ) and one false prophet. How do you get that the man of sin comes after the false messiah?

The last days is filled with false Christs and false messiahs .. For many will come.. At least more than one to deceive Jews and Christians .. True Christians leave the earth... False Christians will awaken ... There are many who claim to be a christian or in Christ but miss the mark for whatever reason... The deception will be a false messiah and false messianic age first

Because of this deception that comes from Israel and 10 kingdoms... The final antichrist and true man of sin comes after this age as lasted a short space

Then the return of Jesus

timeline

1 rapture
2 false man of sin comes
3 false Jesus comes
4 false messianic age comes
5 north and south kingdoms of Israel form (made up of Jew and Gentiles)
6 10 kingdoms of Israel formed ( Gentiles ) kings of the north
7 2 tribes of Judah king of the south form
8 this false messianic age last a short space
9 temple rebuilt
10 Babylon the city rebuilt

11 the man of sin comes from Babylon
12 gains control of 10 kingdoms of the north
13 comes to Jerusalem worship as god

14 the return of Jesus