How do creationists answer these questions: Are you an Ape? A Mammal? A Vertebrate?

Justatruthseeker

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Don't you understand what you're saying? C-14 cannot produce a reliable age greater than 50,000 years. It couldn't produce an age of millions of years. But when tests that have that range are performed, they provide ages in the millions of years. When numbskulls use C-14 on dinosaur bones, their methods are so shoddy that they can't get them published.


Yes, the university of Georgia is full of numbskulls, those same people evolutionists go to when they wanted mammoth bones dated, or archeologists use to date finds. Guess we better just throw out every single test ever done then, since according to you none of them can be trusted.


You are simply grasping at straws in an attempt to try to make the facts less than they are. Good try, but useless. This is the same place all scientists use for dating, because it has the best equipment and most knowledgeable people. But the data didn't jive with your theory, so of course it is flawed. The gasps of a drowning man. If the evidence falsifies the theory, why it must be the evidence that is wrong, couldn't possibly be someones "idea" of the past, Lol, and you call yourself a science-minded person.
 
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Split Rock

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Yes, the university of Georgia is full of numbskulls, those same people evolutionists go to when they wanted mammoth bones dated, or archeologists use to date finds. Guess we better just throw out every single test ever done then, since according to you none of them can be trusted.
1. Dinosaurs are far older than mammoths and humans.
2. You are the one claiming the technique cannot be trusted.


You are simply grasping at straws in an attempt to try to make the facts less than they are. Good try, but useless. This is the same place all scientists use for dating, because it has the best equipment and most knowledgeable people. But the data didn't jive with your theory, so of course it is flawed. The gasps of a drowning man. If the evidence falsifies the theory, why it must be the evidence that is wrong, couldn't possibly be someones "idea" of the past, Lol, and you call yourself a science-minded person.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that C-14 dating cannot be used for dinosaur fossils? There are other radiometric techniques for them.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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When did that happen?


Every single data set that comes out, by your own scientists.

"Evolutionists had identified "more than 2000 genes as potential targets of positive selection in the human genome", and they expected that "diversity patterns in about 10% of the human genome have been affected by linkage to recent sweeps." So what did they find? "In contrast to expectation," their test detected nothing, but they could not quite bring themselves to say it. They said there was a "paucity of classic sweeps revealed by our findings". Sweeps "were too infrequent within the past 250,000 years to have had discernible effects on genomic diversity." "Classic sweeps were not a dominant mode of human adaptation over the past 250,000 years." --Hernandez, Ryan D., Joanna L. Kelley, Eyal Elyashiv, S. Cord Melton, Adam Auton, Gilean McVean, 1000 Genomes Project, Guy Sella, Molly Przeworski. 18 February 2011. Classic Selective Sweeps Were Rare in Recent Human Evolution. Science, Vol. 331, no. 6019, pp. 920-924."

A 35-year experiment by evolutionists shows how things really work. Instead of waiting for natural selection, researchers forced selection on hundreds of generations of fruit flies. They used variation to breed fruit flies that develop from egg to adult 20% faster than normal. But, as usual when breeding plants and animals, there was a down side. In this case the fruit flies weighed less, lived shorter lives, and were less resistant to starvation. There were many mutations, but none caught on, and the experiment ran into the limits of variation. They wrote that "forward experimental evolution can often be completely reversed with these populations". "Despite decades of sustained selection in relatively small, sexually reproducing laboratory populations, selection did not lead to the fixation of newly arising unconditionally advantageous alleles." "The probability of fixation in wild populations should be even lower than its likelihood in these experiments." --Burke, Molly K., Joseph P. Dunham, Parvin Shahrestani, Kevin R. Thornton, Michael R. Rose, Anthony D. Long. 30 September 2010. Genome-wide analysis of a long-term evolution experiment with Drosophila. Nature, Vol. 467, pp. 587-590

"Archaeopteryx has long been considered the iconic first bird." "The first Archaeopteryx skeleton was found in Germany about the same time Darwin's Origin of Species was published. This was a fortuituously-timed discovery: because the fossil combined bird-like (feathers and a wishbone) and reptilian (teeth, three fingers on hands, and a long bony tail) traits, it helped convince many about the veracity of evolutionary theory." "Ten skeletons and an isolated feather have been found." "Archaeopteryx is the poster child for evolution." But "bird features like feathers and wishbones have recently been found in many non-avian dinosaurs". "Microscopic imaging of bone structure... shows that this famously feathered fossil grew much slower than living birds and more like non-avian dinosaurs." "Living birds mature very quickly and grow really, really fast", researchers say. "Dinosaurs had a very different metabolism from today's birds. It would take years for individuals to mature, and we found evidence for this same pattern in Archaeopteryx and its closest relatives". "The team outlines a growth curve that indicates that Archaeopteryx reached adult size in about 970 days, that none of the known Archaeopteryx specimens are adults (confirming previous speculation), and that adult Archaeopteryx were probably the size of a raven, much larger than previously thought." "We now know that the transition into true birds -- physiologically and metabolically -- happened well after Archaeopteryx." --October 2009. Archaeopteryx Lacked Rapid Bone Growth, the Hallmark of Birds. American Museum of Natural History, funded science online news release.

Sean B. Carroll, of the Medical Institute and Laboratory of Molecular Biology at the University of Wisconsin--Madison, wrote in a 2001 edition of Nature: "A long-standing issue in evolutionary biology is whether the processes observable in extant populations and species (microevolution) are sufficient to account for the larger-scale changes evident over longer periods of life's history (macroevolution). Outsiders to this rich literature may be surprised that there is no consensus on this issue."-- Sean B. Carroll. 8 February 2001. Nature, Vol. 409, p. 669.

"Theories of the origin of life based on metabolic cycles cannot be justified by the inadequacy of competing theories: they must stand on their own." "Experimental proof that such cycles are stable against the challenge of side reactions is even more important." "The prebiotic syntheses that have been investigated experimentally almost always lead to the formation of complex mixtures. Proposed polymer replication schemes are unlikely to succeed except with reasonably pure input monomers. No solution of the origin-of-life problem will be possible until the gap between the two kinds of chemistry is closed." "Solutions offered by supporters of geneticist or metabolist scenarios that are dependent on 'if pigs could fly' hypothetical chemistry are unlikely to help."
Orgel, Leslie E. January 2008. The Implausibility of Metabolic Cycles on the Prebiotic Earth. Public Library of Science (PLoS) Biology, Vol. 6, No. 1, e18, pp. 5-13.
Leslie E. Orgel, Ph.D. Oxford, was a biochemist who studied life on primitive Earth. He conducted research at Cambridge, the University of Chicago, the California Institute of Technology, and later joined the Chemical Evolution Laboratory of the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in San Diego, California. He died at age 80 in October 2007. The above article was published posthumously.

"Zombie science is science that is dead but will not lie down." "Zombie science is supported because it is useful propaganda. Zombie science is deployed in arenas such as political rhetoric, public administration, management, public relations, marketing and the mass media generally. It persuades, it constructs taboos, it buttresses some kind of rhetorical attempt to shape mass opinion. Indeed, zombie science often comes across in the mass media as being more plausible than real science."
Charlton, Bruce G. 2008. Zombie science: A sinister consequence of evaluating scientific theories purely on the basis of enlightened self-interest. Medical Hypotheses, Vol. 71, pp. 327-329.

Stop practicing Zombie science, your theory is dead, let it rest peacefully.
Need more? have about a few hundred others.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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If you think that selective breeding will change them into anything other than cats or dogs or that selective breeding is anything more than an analogue to evolution, I can see why you're having trouble grasping that this observation is not a problem for evolutionary theory.

And yet you have observed nothing else. All you have are fantasies of how creatures evolve, when in reality the only evidence you have is kind after kind.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Is a yardstick a flawed tool just because you wouldn't use it to measure miles?

It's not my fault you have "thought" you were looking at miles, when in reality the data shows it was mere yards. If you put the View Master down you would be able to see clearly.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Derived taxa that evolved from a basal Carnivora.
Carnivora evolved from a basal Eutherian.
Eutherians evolved from a basal Therian.
Etc. etc.


yes, yes, so say you, but not a single transitory species exists, merely variation within kinds. As I said before, scientists like to play the name game to get their names in the books, so of course you must have many classifications because you have many names that want to get published.

And baby dino once had their own evolutionary tree separate from their parents, so excuse me if I lack confidence in any of your "claims" of how things evolve. You can't even get the same species correct, let alone diverse ones.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Why do Creationists have an obsession with kitty cats, moo cows and horsies? Why won't they discuss other clades and taxa?

Tell me:
Are clams a "kind"?
Are squids a "kind"?
Are slugs a "kind"?
Are mollusks a "kind"?

What about crabs and lobsters?
What about crabs, lobsters and wasps?
What about crabs, lobsters, wasps and spiders?

Because you havent manipulated their genes so there is no data on them. Why do evolutionist constantly ignore cats and dogs when they want to discuss evolution? Perhaps because it shows the great diversity capable within kinds (within our own lifetimes not over millions of years) and shatters your transitory species notion?
 
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essentialsaltes

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Yes, the university of Georgia is full of numbskulls,

No, the numbskulls are the idiots who get samples from museums that they have been told have varnish on them, and then submit them without appropriate sample preparation to labs for C-14 analysis.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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1. Dinosaurs are far older than mammoths and humans.
2. You are the one claiming the technique cannot be trusted.



Why is it so hard for you to understand that C-14 dating cannot be used for dinosaur fossils? There are other radiometric techniques for them.

Ahh you "say" they are too old, but the tests say otherwise. Your scientists did not believe the samples were too old when they dated them, were confident in the results. Of course they were not informed of what they were, as they are never informed about any sample so the tests are not biased. If what you say is true, then the tests should have revealed errors in the results, but every single one was remarkably consistent, even when taken to separate labs for testing.

it is only your "idea" that they are millions of years old, an "idea" clearly in error that does not jive with the facts. Your scientists say no biological matter should exist over 2 million years, yet soft tissue has been found numerous times, showing the C-14 tests are indeed correct.

It is your "theory" about their age that is wrong, not the test results. The tests did not show wildly convergent dates, but remarkable consistency with every single sample, ruling out your theory of their age.

I have no doubt that the strata they were buried in at death is old, this is what happens when floods loosen existing earth and buries creatures. No creature has ever been buried in "new" earth, it's all old. Even the dirt under your feet is broken down from rocks millions or billions of years old.

Your refusal to accept your own scientific data just shows you are practicing the religion of evolution, and not science.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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No, the numbskulls are the idiots who get samples from museums that they have been told have varnish on them, and then submit them without appropriate sample preparation to labs for C-14 analysis.


Not a single sample was obtained from any museum. had you bothered to read you would of found that they used only newly excavated bones, and did not use museum samples precisely for that reason, good try tho.

And btw, these were evolutionist doing the dating, not creationists.

And btw again, samples were treated with shellac as a control and clearly showed up as contamination, throwing out your argument as patently false.
 
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lasthero

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Because you havent manipulated their genes so there is no data on them. Why do evolutionist constantly ignore cats and dogs when they want to discuss evolution? Perhaps because it shows the great diversity capable within kinds (within our own lifetimes not over millions of years) and shatters your transitory species notion?

Transitional. Transitional. 'Transitory' means a completely different thing.

At any rate, why didn't you answer the questions? Are crabs a kind? Mollusks?
 
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lasthero

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And yet you have observed nothing else. All you have are fantasies of how creatures evolve, when in reality the only evidence you have is kind after kind.

What is a 'kind'? Are you ever going to provide some actual criteria? A definition? Anything?
 
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Split Rock

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Ahh you "say" they are too old, but the tests say otherwise. Your scientists did not believe the samples were too old when they dated them, were confident in the results. Of course they were not informed of what they were, as they are never informed about any sample so the tests are not biased. If what you say is true, then the tests should have revealed errors in the results, but every single one was remarkably consistent, even when taken to separate labs for testing.

it is only your "idea" that they are millions of years old, an "idea" clearly in error that does not jive with the facts. Your scientists say no biological matter should exist over 2 million years, yet soft tissue has been found numerous times, showing the C-14 tests are indeed correct.

It is your "theory" about their age that is wrong, not the test results. The tests did not show wildly convergent dates, but remarkable consistency with every single sample, ruling out your theory of their age.

I have no doubt that the strata they were buried in at death is old, this is what happens when floods loosen existing earth and buries creatures. No creature has ever been buried in "new" earth, it's all old. Even the dirt under your feet is broken down from rocks millions or billions of years old.

Your refusal to accept your own scientific data just shows you are practicing the religion of evolution, and not science.

Show me measured dates with the calculated statistical errors that demonstrates dinosaur fossils are younger than 100's of millions of years. Do you understand the difference between the following?

1. 45,000 +/- 200 years
2. 45,000 +/- 21,000 years

Yes or no?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Show me measured dates with the calculated statistical errors that demonstrates dinosaur fossils are younger than 100's of millions of years. Do you understand the difference between the following?

1. 45,000 +/- 200 years
2. 45,000 +/- 21,000 years

Yes or no?


Sure I do, do you? because every single test the +/- was no greater than 2910 years, not hundreds of thousands, not millions, but single solitary years. most were +/- 120 years.

Yes, two chairmen erased the results from their website, but alas, they couldn't erase the video excerpts from that conference. Sad, sad, sad, that one must delete evidence in order to attempt to keep it from reaching the public, all in effort to "save" a theory long dead.

Carbon-14 dated dinosaur bones - under 40,000 years old - YouTube

Carbon-14 dating dinosaur bones

CARBON DATING OF FOSSILS

Your problem is that if they were the age you claim, there should be no carbon 14 present, yet not only was it present in sufficient quantities for testing, but soft tissue itself has been found, to which your only explanation is well, umm, well, umm.

Just admit you haven't a clue and your theory of age is as worthless as is your theory of evolution.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9VbDFCndMI&feature=player_embedded

How could that be indeed, unless of course your story of age is just that, a "story"
 
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Justatruthseeker

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What is a 'kind'? Are you ever going to provide some actual criteria? A definition? Anything?

I'd tell you family, but the problem is you are not consistent in your own descriptions. Aves are classified by class, not family, family is not even present. Since you can't get it right the best is family, the same way "evolutionists" classify them. If you cant figure out what a felidae kind is then all hope is lost for you, because it is your very own definition.

What, don't accept your own classifications?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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No, that's enough pointless quotes for one day. Thanks.

Pointless because your very own scientists don't agree with what you are trying to tell us? Sad day in science when a creationist knows more about your own evolutionary science than evolutionist do.

Every single quote is from an evolutionists, evolutionists that understand the facts do not support the theory. Only you, a religious zealot of evolution argues for what your own scientists say is impossible.
 
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lasthero

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How could that be indeed, unless of course your story of age is just that, a "story"

The scientific paper written by the person who discovered this explains how it is.

Soft tissue and cellular preservation in vertebrate skeletal elements from the Cretaceous to the present

You should read it past the abstract. It's free.

Basically, the material in question was found inside unbroken bone, buried deeply and rapidly - the soft tissue was basically sealed, which protected it from decay over a long period of time. That's why such finds are rare.

I'd tell you family, but the problem is you are not consistent in your own descriptions. Aves are classified by class, not family, family is not even present. Since you can't get it right the best is family, the same way "evolutionists" classify them. If you cant figure out what a felidae kind is then all hope is lost for you, because it is your very own definition.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you going to define kinds, or beat around the bush?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Transitional. Transitional. 'Transitory' means a completely different thing.

At any rate, why didn't you answer the questions? Are crabs a kind? Mollusks?

Crab are of the kind Malacostraca.

Once again, no family involved so one must resort to class again because your system is not consistent.

Mollusks you have no class or family for, only phylum, superphylum and kingdom.Once again, no consistency whatsoever.And your lack of consistency is why one single answer can never be given, because you yourself can provide no single definition for anything.

Don't like that answer? Tough, talk to your evolutionists then and tell them to get the order straightened out. Then we will have a consistent definition of kind. So it is family in some, class or clade in others and phylum in still others.

I must wait until I stop laughing, because you can't even get your own definitions worked out, it is no wonder you are confused about kinds.
 
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