How did they know Jesus was God?

[AnticipateHisComing]

Christians today have the benefit of so much history to confirm our faith that the Jesus that walked the earth 2000 years ago was God. If Jesus came today instead of 2000 years ago, how would you determine that a person that claimed to be God was really God? Certainly it has to be more than just a claim to be God, because many claimed this before Jesus came and many have done so even after he came. So how did Jesus convince people that he was the Messiah? I contend that Jesus followed OT convention, that two or more are needed to testify to what is true.

Here is my simple list of those that testified that Jesus was God.
1) Scripture, OT prophesies
2) Prophets/apostles John the Baptist, John the apostle and the others
3) Jesus' miracles, resurrection
4) Jesus' words, he taught with authority, he prophesied, he claimed to be God
5) God the Father
6) Good fruit

Any other ideas on how the world was changed and convinced that Jesus was God?

John 5:31 “If I[Jesus] testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
John 5:33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.
John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.
John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
Matthew 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

​

More food for thought. Is there any other religion or man that claimed to be God that has a tenth of the things that testify to their truth like that which Jesus had? Is this not proof that Christianity is the true religion of God?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So how did Jesus convince people that he was the Messiah?

If I remember right, HE told those who wanted proof that HE wasn't going to give them any more proof than Jonah.

And HE said HE only did what the FATHER had HIM DO.
i.e. HE did not try at all to convince anyone,
nor did the thought of convincing anyone affect what HE DID. (nor what HE DOES TODAY).

 

[-57]

Christians today have the benefit of so much history to confirm our faith that the Jesus that walked the earth 2000 years ago was God. If Jesus came today instead of 2000 years ago, how would you determine that a person that claimed to be God was really God? Certainly it has to be more than just a claim to be God, because many claimed this before Jesus came and many have done so even after he came. So how did Jesus convince people that he was the Messiah? I contend that Jesus followed OT convention, that two or more are needed to testify to what is true.

Here is my simple list of those that testified that Jesus was God.
1) Scripture, OT prophesies
2) Prophets/apostles John the Baptist, John the apostle and the others
3) Jesus' miracles, resurrection
4) Jesus' words, he taught with authority, he prophesied, he claimed to be God
5) God the Father
6) Good fruit

Any other ideas on how the world was changed and convinced that Jesus was God?

John 5:31 “If I[Jesus] testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
John 5:33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.
John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.
John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
Matthew 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

​

More food for thought. Is there any other religion or man that claimed to be God that has a tenth of the things that testify to their truth like that which Jesus had? Is this not proof that Christianity is the true religion of God?

I think it may have been tough to understand Jesus was God. Thomas didn't believe untill he saw Jesus in the upper room. Peter knew it because God informed him.

The Jews tried to stone Jesus because He was doing things only God could do.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Jews tried to stone Jesus because He was doing things only God could do.

They did stone Jesus (probably anyway, before hanging HIM in crucfixion on a living tree) and also Paul the Apostle ....
why did they stone Paul ?

 

[John Hyperspace]

I believe that the main reason was prophecy; Isaiah 41:22-23, John 13:19 and working with this, confirmation through signs: Mark 16:20, John 20:30-31, Acts 2:22, Romans 15:19, Hebrews 2:4

About the concept of "proof": I studied logic for a while in college and learned that proof is based on the idea of "sufficiency" of evidence. But the more I thought about it, the more I was lead to conclude that "sufficiency" is a subjective illusion: it does not actually exist by an objective measure, and therefore, "proof" is also an illusion of subjectivity.

What I mean is that, the evidence you base your belief upon, is, to your mind "sufficient" and therefore justifies or compels belief. But should we ask another, such as the atheist, he may regard the evidence as "insufficient", and claim your belief is unjustified. Likewise, the evolutionist may regard the evidence of his belief as "sufficient" and therefore his belief justified, while the creationist regard the evidence as "insufficient" and the belief unjustified.

But the truth seems to be that sufficiency is only a product of your subjective ideology, and we cannot objectively determine whose belief is justified by way of "sufficiency", since sufficiency itself is subjectively determined by the individual. Thus, there is no such a thing as "proof" of any objective nature, and all belief is based solely on the subjective compulsion of the believer in regards to his own personal view of sufficiency. Which, in the end, becomes a circular form of reasoning.

One may say concerning the "evidence" that the one is "too easily persuaded" while the other regard his other as "too skeptical" and yet, neither can know which is right and which is wrong, in any objective way.

 

[Galatea]

They did not really know He was God until after the Resurrection. He told them He would rise again, but none of them fully believed- that's why they dismissed Mary when she came from the empty tomb. And, Thomas had to see the nail prints and the wound before he was completely convinced that Christ was God. I don't think that we should think poorly of them, because it really is kind of fantastic. We would have the same failings as the early Christians.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We would have the same failings as the early Christians.

"would have?"

 

[Galatea]

"would have?"

If we lived in the time of Christ, we would have had the same doubts as them. We wouldn't have believed that our friend and teacher was really God until after His resurrection. That is what I meant.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If we lived in the time of Christ, we would have had the same doubts as them. We wouldn't have believed that our friend and teacher was really God until after His resurrection. That is what I meant.

Yes.
And today, most people [all over the world] deny Y'SHUA even though HE rose from the dead and ascended into heaven never to die again to give hope for the resurrection.

 

[ewq1938]

How did they know Jesus was God?

He told them.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

If I remember right,

You don't.

Matthew 12:38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”
39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.

Matthew 16: 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.

John 2:18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.​

HE told those who wanted proof that HE wasn't going to give them any more proof than Jonah.

You mischaracterize what Jesus said to the wicked Pharisees as being applicable to all. Recognize even in his rebuke of the Pharisees, he provided two signs, his resurrection and his unmatched wisdom and knowledge.

Know that those with faith believed the signs and the signs/miracles were there when they had faith.

John 2:23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.

Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
Acts 2:22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
​

And HE said HE only did what the FATHER had HIM DO.
i.e. HE did not try at all to convince anyone,
nor did the thought of convincing anyone affect what HE DID. (nor what HE DOES TODAY).

Don't be silly. Jesus came here to teach us about God, of which he is. He came to show us God's love, of which there is no greater expression of then his death on the cross for our sins. Jesus was very convincing in his life. Those that rejected Jesus did so because their hearts were hard and they followed Satan, not because they thought the signs to be fake.

John 10:24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

John 12:37 Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.​

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

He told them.

You miss the whole point of the OP. What differentiates Jesus saying he was God from the many others that have said the same?

 

[ewq1938]

You miss the whole point of the OP. What differentiates Jesus saying he was God from the many others that have said the same?

He was right?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

his resurrection

He pointed out in HIS WORD HIS resurrection IS the sign of JONAH...
Jesus refuses to give a sign

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said, “Master, we want to see a sign from you.” But Jesus told them, “It is an evil and unfaithful generation that craves for a sign, and no sign will be given to it—except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was in the belly of that great sea-monster for three days and nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights.



The Message of the Cross
…21For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,…Berean Study Bible ·

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I think it may have been tough to understand Jesus was God.

If you Dad died and was in the grave for 4 days and the Pope came and raised him from the dead, would it be tough to believe?

Thomas didn't believe untill he saw Jesus in the upper room.

Thomas like most Jews believed in a Messiah that would bring an earthly kingdom. When Jesus died, so did that dream for many.

The Jews tried to stone Jesus because He was doing things only God could do.

More specifically, the Pharisees plotted to kill Jesus because his miracles were convincing people and they thought this to be the end of their power. After Jesus raised Lazarus many believed, and so the Pharisees plotted to kill Jesus to stop his movement as John 11:48 says explicitly.

The Plot to Kill Jesus John 11:45 Therefore many of the Jews who had come to visit Mary, and had seen what Jesus did, believed in him. 46 But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. 47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting of the Sanhedrin. “What are we accomplishing?” they asked. “Here is this man performing many signs. 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.” 49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.” 51 He did not say this of his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, 52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one. 53 So from that day on they plotted to take his life.​

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Is there any other religion or man that claimed to be God that has a tenth of the things that testify to their truth like that which Jesus had? Is this not proof that Christianity is the true religion of God?

I believe that the main reason was prophecy; Isaiah 41:22-23, John 13:19 and working with this, confirmation through signs: Mark 16:20, John 20:30-31, Acts 2:22, Romans 15:19, Hebrews 2:4

Very Good.

About the concept of "proof": I studied logic for a while in college and learned that proof is based on the idea of "sufficiency" of evidence. But the more I thought about it, the more I was lead to conclude that "sufficiency" is a subjective illusion: it does not actually exist by an objective measure, and therefore, "proof" is also an illusion of subjectivity.

You think too much and learn from the wrong place. You might as well just say nothing is provable. This leads to doubting everything and not holding one thing to be the authority. This is man's wisdom.

1 Corinthians 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.​

God is absolute and says he is always true and right. We may not always know what is right, let alone be able to prove it, but we must acknowledge that what God left us with is sufficient to testify to the truth.

What I mean is that, the evidence you base your belief upon, is, to your mind "sufficient" and therefore justifies or compels belief. But should we ask another, such as the atheist, he may regard the evidence as "insufficient", and claim your belief is unjustified. Likewise, the evolutionist may regard the evidence of his belief as "sufficient" and therefore his belief justified, while the creationist regard the evidence as "insufficient" and the belief unjustified.

Any who uses logic to argue for religion with an an atheist is a fool and will get nowhere. Note that my "food for thought" was addressed to those that adhere to the concept of there being a God. Those that don't profess such are delusional. They think there is no God as if it is not proven. The delusion being that God says it is plain in what is made. Atheist believe what they do in rejection and rebellion of God. If ever in this world there was an anti-God it would be them. You might as well call them antichrist.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. ​

But the truth seems to be that sufficiency is only a product of your subjective ideology, and we cannot objectively determine whose belief is justified by way of "sufficiency", since sufficiency itself is subjectively determined by the individual. Thus, there is no such a thing as "proof" of any objective nature, and all belief is based solely on the subjective compulsion of the believer in regards to his own personal view of sufficiency. Which, in the end, becomes a circular form of reasoning.

Again, when discussing with reasonable people, one could list all the things that testify to Jesus/Christian religion and compare it with how many things testify to any other religion. Using the same criteria for all religions, you could prove one religion has more things that testify to it being true.

One may say concerning the "evidence" that the one is "too easily persuaded" while the other regard his other as "too skeptical" and yet, neither can know which is right and which is wrong, in any objective way.

Religion is about faith, and faith is hope in what is unseen. This does not mean that there is none that testifies to this.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

He was right?

How do you know Jesus was right in claiming to be God?
How do you know others that claimed to be God are wrong?

 

[ewq1938]

How do you know Jesus was right in claiming to be God?

Scripture confirms this...faith means one accepts what scripture states.

 

[-57]

They did stone Jesus (probably anyway, before hanging HIM in crucfixion on a living tree) and also Paul the Apostle ....
why did they stone Paul ?

Living tree?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

http://essene.com/History&Essenes/Exec.htm