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How Did The Sabbath Day Change From The 7th Day To 1st Day Of The Week?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by tanzel, Jun 11, 2009.

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  1. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Hi 'Deidra',
    this is simply a matter you won't be satisfied with here (on this forum).
    if you want to know, you'll have to search the Hebrew/Jewish websites available for a while longer elsewhere on the internet.
    the Scriptures are clear, and the Word of Yhvh is clear about this and everything else as well.
    whether you are really interested or not, it has been observed that no one (virtually) on the forum changes their mind- they don't come here nor stay here to turn to Yhvh but just to air their own opinions, and the internet laws don't allow the real gospel to be realized.
     
  2. - DRA -

    - DRA - New Member

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    Greetings,

    I've gleaned over all the posts and would like to respond. I'll start with the red-bolded text in the OP.

    No doubt, God expected His people - the Israelites - to keep/observe the Sabbath (i.e., the seventh day of the week). Not keeping it carried severe consequences according to Exodus 31:14-16.

    However, the issue at hand is to decide if this observance continued when the law of Moses ended. According to Colossians 2:14 and Hebrews 9:15-17, that old law ended and Jesus' law went into effect. Using the imagery of Hebrews 9, I have described Peter's preaching in Acts 2 as the reading of Jesus' will. Therefore, from this point forward, we need to determine what the Scriptures say about whether or not the disciples of Jesus kept the Sabbath as they lived under the law of Christ.

    Let's consider the first issue that arose from the mingling of the old law with the law of Christ. It involved circumcision. The discussion is detailed in Acts 15. Let's note the conclusion of the apostles and first-century Christians as the matter was settled in a letter written to the church in Antioch of Syria(NKJV):
    23 ... To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
    24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no such commandment--
    25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
    26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
    28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
    29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.​

    In light of this letter of guidance, it is obvious the Sabbath is not listed. Therefore, the inference/implication is that keeping the Sabbath is not a requirement under the law of Christ.

    Second, let's note Acts 13:14 (similar to several other passages in the book of Acts):
    But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. ​

    From this passage, I understand that Paul and Barnabus (determined from the context) went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. Then, as I continue reading the inspired text, a window of opportunity was opened and Paul stood up and preached the gospel of Christ. I simply do not see this as an occasion of worship of the church per se, but rather, a humble servant of the Lord being opportunistic in teaching those who professed to be servants of God about the Lord Jesus Christ. If you understand the text as the assembly of the church, then please explain how this understanding is derived.

    Third, Acts 20:7 clearly declares the disciples came together (i.e. assembled) on the Sabbath day, right? Wrong! They assembled on the first day of the week - which would be Sunday, right? Right! And, when they assembled they observed the Lord's Supper* and Paul preached. (*NOTE: The Lord's Supper is inferred by considering "to break bread" in light of 1 Corinthians 11:17-34.) This infers they came together to worship. And, it is an approved example of them coming together on Sunday to worship God under the law of Christ, right?
     
  3. nahtino

    nahtino Colossians 2 & amp; amp; a

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    this is a fantastic thread and i must say, althoughat present I attend on a sunday.. Im very keen on realy honouring/worshipping the lord on a saturday ..

    You guys on here have a greta message and besides it being a tradtion and one two passages which are neither here or there ..I say the Sabbath is the Lords day ..

    THe Jews who have served the Lord the longest wouldnt even think of another day .. ever ..

    ANd this goes back to our JEwish roots of christaiinity ... theres some fundemental Judiac knowledge of the Gospel that we as Gentiles we miss .. ( eg the day starts at sundown..)
     
  4. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    To me everyday is the Lords day. If I wake up in prayer, study scripture and worship him everyday I do not see a wrong in that. I serve him everyday whether in a church building or outside of a church building. Honestly, I don't think it matters to GOD which day it is, and debating it to me seems futile. It is highly unlikely for any of us to calculate the first day of creation, 6 days after that would be the sabbath. All that GOD really cares about is that you have taken the time to make HIM first in your life.
     
  5. Deidra

    Deidra Newbie

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    But the Jews don't have Jesus. The Orthodox ones, the ones that keep the law. Grace and Law cannot exist in the same house. Read Galatians
     
  6. nahtino

    nahtino Colossians 2 & amp; amp; a

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    The Sabbath is the lords day people ...
     
  7. tanzel

    tanzel Bible Christian

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    Hey DRA.....Lets begin with the law.



    When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law. Paul explained this in;[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman] (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law [/FONT][/FONT](what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [/FONT][/FONT]​

    When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood
    of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. [/FONT][/FONT]In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. [/FONT][/FONT]
    Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [/FONT][/FONT]Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).



    (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). [/FONT][/FONT](v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. [/FONT][/FONT](v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]


    Lets take a look at (Acts: 20: 7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Now let’s take a close look at this verse and dissect it a little. Notice Paul continued his speech until midnight! It was after sunset, but prior to midnight. The first day of the week in biblical times did not begin at midnight, as men begin it today. The Lord’s days begin and end at evening (sunset). [/FONT][/FONT](Gen. 1:5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]All biblical days began and ended at sunset. Throughout the Roman world at that time, and for a few hundred years afterward, days began and ended at sunset. The practice of beginning the new day at midnight was started much later. So this meeting, and Paul’s preaching, took place during the time that we now call Saturday night. Remember when dealing with the Lord’s days the evening comes first. If you read more than just that one verse you would see what actually happen. Paul’s companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night and early Sunday. They had set sail Saturday night, after the sabbath had ended. Paul remained behind for one more farewell sermon. Then at day break Sunday morning, Paul set afoot, walking from Tro’-as to As’-sos to meet the ship. This verse [/FONT][/FONT](Acts: 20:7) [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]says nothing about a change of the Lord’s holy sabbath day. And the term "break bread" simply means to eat, so every time Paul ate he broke bread, search it out for your self, the bible tells you to; [/FONT][/FONT](1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
     
  8. tanzel

    tanzel Bible Christian

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    I’ve heard people said that you can praise the Lord any day and every day. Sure you can and you are supposed to. But you are commanded to set aside one day of the week that the Lord blessed, sanctified and made holy and that day is Saturday. Still others have said every day is the Sabbath, then you are calling God a lie because He said that the seventh day was the Sabbath not every day.



    Remember that it was Christ: (1Peter:2:22) Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Jesus did no sin. But what is sin? (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So every time you break (transgress) one of God’s commandments you have committed sin. And one of those commandments is to: (Ex.20:8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. That’s why Jesus went to church on the seventh day; it is a sin to say that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, because it is not Christ like! Just like it’s a sin to steal, kill, and commit adultery and so-forth. This is the day He would naturally have observed, because He originally made the Sabbath by resting and ordained that it be kept holy from that time forward.



    Jesus said 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Paul said in Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
     
  9. tanzel

    tanzel Bible Christian

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    Pay attention to what PAul said in Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    The true jews are still in captivity. And some know who they are and still keep the law (ten commandment) statues and judgements.





    Paul said in (1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    Question is, which law?
     
  10. - DRA -

    - DRA - New Member

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    Originally Posted by - DRA -

    However, the issue at hand is to decide if this observance continued when the law of Moses ended. According to Colossians 2:14 and Hebrews 9:15-17, that old law ended and Jesus' law went into effect.


    First of all, I appreciate your response.

    Now, let's discuss a few things.

    Let's note Colossians 2:14-17 (NKJV):
    14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
    15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
    16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
    17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.​

    For Thought: Per this text, as a result of Jesus' death on the cross, God's people were no longer to judge each other by the law of Moses. Note the things specifically mentioned. Does it give us the impression only the animal sacrifices and the things relating to them passed away? No. It was a broader scope that involved matters such as food, drink, and sabbaths. The point was these things were no longer in effect, therefore, they are not a part of the standard by which God's people can judge each other any longer. Today we live under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. That's the point.

    As for the book of Hebrews, it is a fascinating study. I would like to direct your attention first to chapter 7 ... where the details and implications are given of Jesus being a priest after the order of Melchizedek (versus the Levitical priesthood under the law of Moses). Let's note verse 12: "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." The point is that priesthood and the law (i.e., the law of Moses) were connected. Thus, the declaration that Jesus was a priest after the order of Melchizedek meant a change in priesthood - which, of necessity, meant a change of the law. Let's continue with thought into the next chapter of Hebrews. According to 8:6-13, Jesus offers a better covenant than the first. Let's note that first covenant in Exodus 19:7-8 and 24:3 ...
    19:7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him.
    8 Then all the people answered together and said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do." So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.
    and,
    24:3 So Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, "All the words which the Lord has said we will do." ​
    For Thought: In fairness and due diligence to the text, did that first covenant involve the Israelites agreeing to keep all that God commanded, or just the part that involved animal sacrifices? Now, getting back to Hebrews 8, God prophesied through Jeremiah of a new covenant he would make with the Israel. Thus, the promise of a new covenant meant the old covenant would vanish away when the new covenant went into effect. And, according to chapter 9, that new covenant went into effect after Jesus' death (9:15-17). Thinking back to chapter 8, the new covenant involved God no longer remembering sins and lawless deeds (vs. 12). Considering the sequence of events following the death of Jesus, the remission of sins was extended in the name of the Lord (i.e., by His authority) in Acts 2:38. Therefore, that is when the new covenant went into effect. Fast forwarding in the book of Acts, I would again refer you to chapter 15. It deals with which aspects of the law of Moses were carried over into the law of Christ. I strongly suspect you will not find the observance of the Sabbath listed as one of the requirements.

    As for Hebrews chapter 10, I encourage you to rethink your understanding that "the law" in verse 1 only alludes to the animal sacrifices. True, the annual sacrifice of the high priest under the law of Moses foreshadowed Jesus' one-time sacrifice. However, are you positive it's the only shadow/type/copy under consideration in the context? For your consideration, let me direct your attention the veil in the tabernacle/temple, the one that separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place ... the one that was torn into from top to bottom at Jesus' death (Matthew 27:51). It is mentioned in Hebrews 9:3 and its antitype is discussed in 10:19-20. Perhaps I should also direct your attention to the admonition in verses 10:25-31,39. It presents God's judgment upon the disobedient Israelites as foreshadowing what can/will happen to those disobedient under the law of Christ (see also 1 Cor. 10:1-13). I suspect if you would like to dig deeper, you will find other types in the book of Hebrews (e.g., Melchizedek being a type/copy/shadow of Christ in chapter 7). With all fairness with the whole of the law of Moses and the O.T., I think you find numerous types/copies/shadow of Jesus - and not just in the animal sacrifices.

    For Additional Thought: Let's consider your statement: "When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments." The observance of the Sabbath was one of those commandment, right (Exodus 20:8-11)? Therefore, the requirement to keep this commandment ended on the cross per Col. 2:14 and Heb. 8:13, right? Right!

    Originally Posted by - DRA -

    Second, let's note Acts 13:14 (similar to several other passages in the book of Acts):


    Your comments on Acts 13:14 were: "Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday)." Can you explain how you determined that "church" is synonymous with "synagogue?"
    I'll grant you the points being made in the text: Paul went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day - Saturday - and taught. And, that the Gentiles wanted to hear more of the gospel of Christ on the following Sabbath. However, it obviously isn't in the text "that they [the Gentiles] would have to serve him on the day that God had set up." Obviously, that idea comes from somewhere else. I would like to know the scriptural basis for this conclusion.

    Originally Posted by - DRA -

    Third, Acts 20:7 clearly declares the disciples came together (i.e. assembled) on the Sabbath day, right? Wrong! They assembled on the first day of the week - which would be Sunday, right?


    I understand what you are saying, but .... Acts 20:7 says, "Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread." Am I mistaken, but I understand there's a difference between the first day of the week and the seventh day of the week? Let's consider what Exodus 20:10 says, "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates." Therefore, as I understand it, the disciples in Acts 20 came together on the day after the seventh day of the week (the Sabbath) - which would be the first day of the week, right?
    Therefore, we have an approved example of Christians assembling on the first day of the week to worship God. As for observing the Sabbath, it certainly isn't taught/implied/inferred in any way by this passage or its context.

    As for "breaking bread," it can indeed be used to describe a common everyday meal, but it can also be used to describe the Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 10:16; 11:23-24). Given that breaking bread is associated with the coming together of the church in Acts 20:7, then according to the latter half of 1 Corinthians chapter 11 they were supposed to be observing the Lord's Supper. Note Paul's instructions in verse 34. They were to eat their common meals at home. Therefore, in harmonizing this teaching with Acts 20:7, I conclude the disciples came together to observe the Lord's Supper. Given some thought, Paul wrote the instructions to the Corinthians, and Paul is at the assembly in Acts 20. Therefore, I believe Paul was practicing what he taught (versus playing the hypocrite).

    Let's give some thought to Acts 20:7. Any impression given the disciples assembled on the seventh day? Of course not. To suggest otherwise it to add to God's word or to suffer from strong delusion. Therefore, any consideration of their keeping the Sabbath must originate elsewhere, right? So ... where?
     
  11. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    I will be the first to admit that on this subject I am definately unqaulified to participate.

    Can I ask a question however from a woman's point of view in reference to the Sabbath?

    In Leviticus 12 it states in verse 4 "She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over." In verse 2 it also says "just as she is unclean during her monthly period". In other parts of this chapter it states that in the instance of giving birth to a boy she must wait 33 days until purification and for birth of a girl she must wait 66 days.

    Would it be safe for me to say that woman are/were excluded from honoring the 4th commandment of GOD? He couldn't/can't very well expect women to keep this commandment in light of the other requirements presented in Leviticus 12.

    Thank you in advance for any insight you have into this portion of scripture. If you would prefer to PM me on this issue that would be suffice.
     
  12. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Shalom Natalie ....
    you will find it seemingly very very difficult to honor Yhvh's Word - you cannot trust any fleshly group/organization which are probably all around and which you probably grew up with...
    TRUST only Yhvh, and He Himself will Teach you the Truth about all things.
    (it cannot even be posted on this forum, and is extremely rare on the internet)
    ...
    simply know that you can obey Yhvh's Word if you are joyfully willing to obey Yhvh in all things and at all costs.
    if you are not willing to honor Yhvh's Word more than and instead of anything else, then you will necessarily miss the mark.
    and
    if you are willing to honor Yhvh's Word more than and instead of anything else, then REJOICE! - YOU ARE THERE! (IT IS ACCOMPLISHED BY YHVH).....
    email if needed..... posting and pms aren't sufficient and are censored.
     
  13. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    I wasn't raised in a Christian home, they honored the Lord on Christmas and Easter only. By the time I was in Junior High School going to Church every Sunday on my own I would come home and be ridiculed by my syblings for being a "Jesus Freak". Jesus took those arrows himself and I was proud to be associated with HIM, I always will be thankful for HIS shining on me. I've asked questions all along but most times HE answers me as much as 2-3 years later. Perhaps many things are not required of me to know? But I cannot stop seeking and YES! I do rejoice in HIS LOVE daily as I seek HIS WILL.

    May GOD BLESS YOU!
     
  14. stelow

    stelow Legend

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    Colossians 2:16-22
    16 So do not let anyone make rules for you about eating and drinking or about a religious feast, a New Moon Festival, or a Sabbath day.17 These things were like a shadow of what was to come. But what is true and real has come and is found in Christ.18 Do not let anyone disqualify you by making you humiliate yourself and worship angels. Such people enter into visions, which fill them with foolish pride because of their human way of thinking.19 They do not hold tightly to Christ, the head. It is from him that all the parts of the body are cared for and held together. So it grows in the way God wants it to grow.
    20 Since you died with Christ and were made free from the ruling spirits of the world, why do you act as if you still belong to this world by following rules like these: 21 "Don't handle this," "Don't taste that," "Don't even touch that thing"? 22 These rules refer to earthly things that are gone as soon as they are used. They are only human commands and teachings. 23 They seem to be wise, but they are only part of a human religion. They make people pretend not to be proud and make them punish their bodies, but they do not really control the evil desires of the sinful self.

    Either you believe what Paul is saying or you don't but I will lean not on my own understanding and take Paul's written Word from Christ Jesus as what to believe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
  15. tanzel

    tanzel Bible Christian

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    Share some of your knowledge and wisdom....and don't forget to use Scriptures and verses according the Bible. Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
     
  16. tanzel

    tanzel Bible Christian

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    Typical verses....But keep in mind that these verses can only be use for those who keep the law, the Lord's sabbath day and High Holy days that is out lined in Leviticus 23rd Chapter. Sunday is not and Holy day nor the sabbath day. Lets read verse 8 and take a look at Sunday, Paul talks about these, man made up days which are the tradition of men and not christ.

    Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
     
  17. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    Tanzel,

    With all due respect I understood what he was saying and if not for what biblical knowledge I have I might not be able to.


    He said to me to trust GOD and joyfully be willing to listen at all cost. If I do it for any other reason than this I could be missing the mark. If I am willing to honor GOD's word more than anything else then I should REJOICE! that GOD had done this for me.
     
  18. tanzel

    tanzel Bible Christian

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    Ok
     
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